Alice mention in a Business Insider Article on Donald Trump

[cooperrocks]

I stumbled upon this purely by accident. As I am sure most of you know, Donald Trump is running for President. Trump is very controversial and basically will say or do anything to get out a rise out of the establishment. In the article, I was surprised when there was a reference to Alice and the 1972 stunt in Russia when his tour bus "broke down." Thought some of you might get a kick out of seeing it. http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ro ... 3426bf52ae

[recoop]

I stumbled upon this purely by accident. As I am sure most of you know, Donald Trump is running for President. Trump is very controversial and basically will say or do anything to get out a rise out of the establishment. In the article, I was surprised when there was a reference to Alice and the 1972 stunt in Russia when his tour bus "broke down." Thought some of you might get a kick out of seeing it. http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ro ... 3426bf52ae

Enjoyed the article so thanks. I think you mean to refer to the advertising hoarding/vehicle breaking down in Picadilly Circus, London, UK in 1972 unless I am missing something. I don't think Alice would have been welcomed in Russia in 1972.

[cooperrocks]

My apologies I had read an article before that one on Russia and inadvertently typed Russia instead of London. That is what happens when you don't proofread. Sorry for any confusion.

[recoop]

No problem cooperrocks- I read the article again just to make sure I hadn't misunderstood- I am not infallible either- anyway article worth a second read-haha- interesting association of events by writer

[kevinuk81]

Will be a very interesting 4 years if Donald Trump becomes president.

[MrD Returns]

I think it's a fairly accurate analogy. Except for the implied lack of substance on both parties. In the American political arena there is very little to choose from that inspires even the least amount of excitement. Trump appeals to that lowest common denominator of the AWM's (angry white men) and it's been effective. Alice Cooper on the other hand while using spectacle and offensiveness to gain an audience had the underlying ability to write, record and perform really great music.
I know this is starting out a little circuitous but bear with me. I've mentioned as others have as well, about the social and cultural impact of the AC phenomenon and it's lasting reverberations to this day. Here, in the above mentioned article is a good example.
As stated so many times before , Alice Cooper was the band that drove the stake through the heart of the "peace and love" generation. AC killed the sixties and ushered in the 70's, the "ME" generation. They were about money, fast cars, jet planes, hot chicks and excess. They were the poster boys for the decadent 70's.
It could also be argued that they paved the way for "Reaganomics" in the US and "Thatcherism" in the UK. The whole "Atlas Shrugged" ideology that it if it weren't for the rich then the rest of us would suffer. Let's not just admire the rich or the self-made man but let's idolize and make being super-rich a cause celebre'.
For better or worse the emergence of Alice Cooper riding in their Rolls Royces, flying in their private jets and lying in piles of money struck a chord on the psyche of America's youth and did in fact kill that peace and love liberalism of the 60's and sent us on the path of neo-con American imperialism that is in full bloom today.

[cooperrocks]

Will be a very interesting 4 years if Donald Trump becomes president.

Yeah and not to get political in an Alice forum, but that's what I found interesting about the article. I enjoy politics and usually start my day by checking out what is going on in the world of news and sports. Donald Trump's rising poll numbers and apparently staying power fascinates me. The more outrageous he acts the more some voters seem to like him.

That is why when I stumbled upon the article I was surprised when Alice was mentioned and the analogy the writer used. I get the point he was trying to make I suppose, but I was surprised he used Alice Cooper to make it and was kind of amused about it frankly.

[A_MichaelUK]

From MrD Returns:
"It could also be argued that they paved the way for "Reaganomics" in the US and "Thatcherism" in the UK."

While I agree with almost everything in your post, I don't think they "paved the way" - I think it was more a reflection on what was already happening, or to be even more accurate, a reflection on how America has always (pretty much) been, both economically and culturally.

>let's idolize and make being super-rich a cause celebre'.

Yes and they made fun of it and themselves, as well.

[MrD Returns]

From MrD Returns:
"It could also be argued that they paved the way for "Reaganomics" in the US and "Thatcherism" in the UK."

While I agree with almost everything in your post, I don't think they "paved the way" - I think it was more a reflection on what was already happening, or to be even more accurate, a reflection on how America has always (pretty much) been, both economically and culturally.

>let's idolize and make being super-rich a cause celebre'.

Yes and they made fun of it and themselves, as well.

My point being that the kids that grew up on Alice Cooper in the 70's (like me) were the young adults of the 80's that voted Reagan into office. That became the hedge fund managers, lawyers, lobbyists, bankers, brokers, military officers and industrialists of today. Another large segment of those kids are the AWM mentioned above. They may have not reached the heights that some of their contemporaries have but they compromise that large segment of cynical disenfranchised men (and women) that still tend to vote conservative. The generation that now believes that every problem in our country is the fault of the poor or the minorities, that only by continually cutting taxes for the rich is the way to prosperity and that a constant state of war is normal. The Billion Dollar Baby generation. We are most decidedly, "Sick Things".

[recoop]

Will be a very interesting 4 years if Donald Trump becomes president.

Or eight years if he is re elected after the first term - Ronald Reagan managed it so anything is possible. Other then a re release of Elected, I am hoping Alice has no connections to Trump other than a love of golf (assuming Trump is sincere in this)

[Keith1980]

Will be a very interesting 4 years if Donald Trump becomes president.

Trump for president alice for vice

Ok jesse ventura would have more luck than alice since he was at least a gov lol

[A_MichaelUK]

From MrD Returns:
"My point being that the kids that grew up on Alice Cooper in the 70's (like me) were the young adults of the 80's that voted Reagan into office."

Yes, I realise that, but that wasn't a new development - the hippies of the sixties ended up as bankers on Wall Street ("The Boys Of Summer" by Don Henley described that perfectly).

[MrD Returns]

"saw a Dead Head sticker on a Cadillac"
Henley's point was the 60's generation sold out.
When my wife and I step out of our Mercedes Benz and we're both wearing Alice Cooper T-shirts it shows that we didn't sell out...we bought in from the get-go.

[A_MichaelUK]

Mr D Returns:
"Henley's point was the 60's generation sold out."

Maybe so but there were plenty of fake hippies around as you probably know (whom Frank Zappa satirised). Also, there's an article by Charles Shaar Murray from "New Musical Express" in 1973 where he makes a similar cultural and political point to the one we're making and by the way, to broaden the point, note also how ahead of 'bling culture' that "Billion Dollar Babies" was.

[MrD Returns]

It's the "chicken or the egg" argument depending on your point of view.
Was the Alice Cooper phenomenon a mirror on society just reflecting what was going on? Or was it a signpost that pointed the direction of what lay ahead?
I've personally never seen a good in-depth study myself. I was hoping when I heard a documentary was being made that the film makers would at least touch on the subject but to my disappointment they did not. There are articles here and there that allude to the premise but never actually come out and say it. Hopefully one day someone will explore Alice Cooper from a cultural sociological perspective and confirm that the emergence of AC in the early 70's was a watershed moment.

[recoop]

From memory, in the 70s Alice was saying that Billion Dollar Babies was a reflection of the sickness of American Society. I think AC did have cultural influence but from my opinion the tide was already turning towards a more advanced form of capitalism etc.

I wouldn't label AC down as a bandwagon jumper(more social commentator) but he/they were quick to see trends and tried out different approaches. When he sang about " sex, death and money" this for me encapsulated 3 main AC topics. They were into sex/gender etc but this was too shocking to USA punters so the focus went onto Death/Horror (much more palatable) and then a sprinkling of satire and the money angle.

A simplified deconstruction perhaps but for me that about sums it up to and including the brilliant BDB album( and then back to sex again for MOL)...and revisited sex again in the more poppy Trash

[A_MichaelUK]

From MrD Returns:
"It's the "chicken or the egg" argument depending on your point of view."

Yes, it's just a different emphasis.

>Was the Alice Cooper phenomenon a mirror on society just reflecting what was going on? Or was it a signpost that pointed the direction of what lay ahead?

It was both, of course.

>I was hoping when I heard a documentary was being made that the film makers would at least touch on the subject but to my disappointment they did not.

Yes, I was hoping for some of that as well.

[A_MichaelUK]

From recoop:
"I wouldn't label AC down as a bandwagon jumper(more social commentator)"

Exactly. It isn't unusual to find examples of some kind of cultural satire in many of the lyrics.

> They were into sex/gender etc but this was too shocking to USA punters so the focus went onto Death/Horror (much more palatable) and then a sprinkling of satire and the money angle.

Yes and in fact, Wayne (or Jayne) County made the same point in a documentary.

[recoop]

Just an interesting addition- In DD's book on p167 regarding his bass guitar "I glued these mirrors all over it to symbolise that Alice Cooper reflects society".