Anyone Else Like the Trash Album?

cooperrocks · Post by **cooperrocks** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:57 pm

One other thing I will throw in (and I am a fan of the hair metal genre, as well as many other genres of hard rock music), is I am glad about the success of Trash and moderate success of Hey Stoopid. It has been great to hear songs like "House of Fire" and "Hey Stoopid" back in the setlist. I love the classics but I have seen Alice perform songs like "Eighteen" and "School's Out" a ton of times with a ton of lineups. For me, it gets repetitive hearing the same songs and setlist over and over again. It is nice to hear some newer songs and songs that were outside of the 1970-75 era. I love all eras of Alice and enjoy his solo work just as much as the original band's work. Both are great in their own way.

Keith1980 · Post by **Keith1980** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:33 pm

cooperrocks wrote:One other thing I will throw in (and I am a fan of the hair metal genre, as well as many other genres of hard rock music), is I am glad about the success of Trash and moderate success of Hey Stoopid. It has been great to hear songs like "House of Fire" and "Hey Stoopid" back in the setlist. I love the classics but I have seen Alice perform songs like "Eighteen" and "School's Out" a ton of times with a ton of lineups. For me, it gets repetitive hearing the same songs and setlist over and over again. It is nice to hear some newer songs and songs that were outside of the 1970-75 era. I love all eras of Alice and enjoy his solo work just as much as the original band's work. Both are great in their own way.

I have to agree with you about the repetitive set lists. He has such a huge catalog he could make a new set list evry tour and tour for decades still. But i understand that when he tours he feels the fans want to hear the hits. So he trys to give the hard core fans some classics and new/old songs and keep people happy with the hits. Alice isnt a major star now like he was in the 70s. Hes not in high demand like thise days. Most bands from that time and even the 80s and 90s arent. I think the ones who go to his shows now are his fan base. The ones who have all his records and follow his career. I think he could get away with playing a big hit as an encore say one night do im eighteen next night do schools out. But make the show his. Play the last temptation in full or something for the fans. If its cost and or venue size dont worry about all the major theatrics.

cooperrocks · Post by **cooperrocks** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:13 pm

I agree with you and I completely understand have zero problem with Alice playing the hits. I think you have to because most of the audience are casual fans. After having seen Alice live numerous times and also owning all of his concert videos, I just have no strong desire to hear nothing but the hits. It is nice to hear the songs mixed up (which Alice would actually do this a little bit more) and a few real surprises being played in the set. For instance, I thought it was great when Alice played "Who Do You Think We Are?" on one of the more current tours. "Man Behind the Mask" recently has been another one. I would love to see a few more of those in the set but we have talked about setlists on this forum many times. Personally, I would love to see "Nothing's Free" or "Love's a Loaded Gun" added to the setlist in the future.

concolz · Post by **concolz** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:20 am

Polished, and plotted, to within an inch of its life, 'Trash' is '80s mainstream rock writ large: a blustering, bleached, dumbed down, smoke and mirrors, 'loadsamoney' Dallasty. Resembling a karaoke night in the local poodle-rock parlour, it was the culmination of Alice's musical Faustian comeback pact. All surface and no depth, 'Trash' is a chartbusting nothingness.

A_MichaelUK wrote:From recoop:
"Soundwise, I don't hear a great similarity between the Trash album and BDB."

Listen to the layers of guitars and backing vocals on both albums - all mixed specifically in such a way so as to sound a certain way on the radio. I could be wrong but as I said, I can't think of another recording from that era made by what would have been considered a 'hard rock' act, that sounded so 'pop' but I'm willing to accept suggestions.

Grand Funk Railroad - 'We're An American Band'

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:45 am

From concolz:
"Grand Funk Railroad - 'We're An American Band'"

That could well be a good example (I was actually thinking of something maybe by The Sweet or Slade) but the question is whether your example was considered an influence on 'hair - metal', though. That woud be the difference.

tuneylune · Post by **tuneylune** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:52 pm

While I'm very glad it gave his career a big boost, still find TRASH an incredibly bad album. However it came out at the right time and if lots of people like it, than that's great. I'll take DADA over this anyday.
I liked a lot of the 80's metal at the time, but it was wearing out its welcome by the time T came out, so maybe that had something to do with it.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:34 pm

to me Trash has its strong songs too, but above all it brought Alice back in the picture. Till this day Poison might be one of his biggest successes ever.
I remember when OWB came out, I could hardly believe this was the Alice I knew from Killer and So and LITD..now it's considered a classic, along with WTMNM , where in the beginning the reviews where not all that positive..
HOF, Poison in the setlist : Alice must believe in them too..or al least recognise the importance for the actual audience (not the one that grew up with ACG..- )

rtbuck · Post by **rtbuck** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:08 am

I never would've thought there would be an Alice album I didn't like but Trash came out & I was disappointed. I liked the songs Trash & I'm Your Gun but didn't care for anything else(Although I didn't mind House of Fire but I was a huge Joan Jett fan) I will say what helped me get by the album was the release of Trashes the World as I really loved that show & seeing some of those songs in a live setting did help a bit for me. I'm still not a huge fan of the album but I do like it more now than I did when it first came out

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:37 pm

I have a soft spot for Why Trust You, I'm Your Gun and Bed of Nails.

The rest of it is pretty standard. But it was a perfect album for the time and Desmond Child is partly (if not wholly) responsible for re-invigorating Alice's career so for that I count him as an exceptional producer and songwriter.

mr.barlow · Post by **mr.barlow** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:45 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:I have a soft spot for Why Trust You, I'm Your Gun and Bed of Nails.

The rest of it is pretty standard. But it was a perfect album for the time and Desmond Child is partly (if not wholly) responsible for re-invigorating Alice's career so for that I count him as an exceptional producer and songwriter.

The "re-invigorating" of Alice's career is mainly due to the hard work of Alice, Shep and namely all of those involved in "The Nightmare Returns" tour. It was that tour that WAS Alice's comeback. These were the people that worked endless hours to make it the trememndous success that it turned out to be and relaunched Alice for a new generation.

Kane Roberts is also owed a great debt for the turnaround as it was he who helped get Alice back on track. You can love or hate the songs that he co-wrote or his style but there is no argument that he was one of the main reasons the comeback was successful.

Desmond Child deserves the credit for getting Alice back into the Top 40. He took the success that was built over the previous few years and took it over the top. Also, it should be noted that it was SHEP GORDON who had the idea for the collaboration and set the plan in place for Alice to get back on top via hair metal. A plan that was hatched around late 1984-early 1985--not with Trash or Desmond Child.

Trash did not happen by accident nor was it an artistic collaboration. It was an album that was basically a result of "market research" and was very contrived. Desmond Child was brought on board for one reason--to give Alice hits. If you listen to Desmond Child's music-it all sounds the same and it's all formula. All kidding aside--they really wanted to Bon Jovify Alice Cooper--and they did! Every little detail of that album from the songwriting, the promotion. Alice's look, etc was very planned out. It was a pure work of marketing and their planning paid off in a big way.

Again--Desmond Child deserves credit for that bastard album but had nothing at all to do with the financial risk, hard work and perseverance that brought Alice back from the dead in 1986.

At any rate--if anyone deserve credit for Alice's return to greatness it comes down to two people. Alice Cooper & Shep Gordon.

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:47 pm

Bad business they never followed up with another Child album. If money and being back in the limelight was the goal it was a huge mis step from Shep and Alice.

mr.barlow · Post by **mr.barlow** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:21 am

pitkin88 wrote:Bad business they never followed up with another Child album. If money and being back in the limelight was the goal it was a huge mis step from Shep and Alice.

I believe the Desmond Child collaboration was meant to be a "one-off" from the start.

It was an album made for one reason only--to get Alice back to the very top. Alice spent the few prior years building back his reputation as a bankable performer and building back his fan base. It has to be noted that the fan base he developed in 1986-1989 was FAR different that the one he had in the early 1970s.

He was dealing with a whole new audience and they marketed him as such. Wrestlemania being a good example.

Constrictor was a pop metal album and while the tour was a monster success the album was met with mixed reviews. Seeing how the fans responded to the "metalizing" of the songs on The Nightmare Returns tour, they upped the ante with the much harder edged Raise Your Fist.

That album was also not that big of a hit, but again the tour was very successful and Alice was again becoming an established star and his profile was continuing to grow.

Epic came along with a deal and the decision was made to again cash in the chips. Big budget--big album--big tour. HUGE success!

Fast forward to Hey Stoopid. After the success of Trash, it was decided to have Alice back away from the hair metal genre slowly, This was mainly done because by that time grunge was starting to put the hair metal genre to a quick death. One can say that Hey Stoopid did better than it would have if it were another Desmond Child record as styles and tastes were changing. Time has proven this right as Hey Stoopid has held up much better than the very dated Trash.

Also, it must be mentioned that because of the success of 1986 & 1987 tours, Alice and Shep were in a much better position when it came to making the deal with Epic.

From what I've heard, Alice could have retired after Trash as he made a personal fortune off of the album and tour. Yes---THAT MUCH money! This must have been so fulfilling to them after the hard work, business sense and great financial risk they took on staging the comeback in 1985/1986.

At any rate---when you look at it--all Shep did was pull out and reuse the business/marketing playbook for B$B. It was basically the same philosophy. The original band had built their reputation to the edge of superstardom--the only way to take it to the next level was to go mainstream and cash in by mainstreaming the image and the music.

The original band ceased to be subversive, scary and weird the minute B$B was released. They were now a very mainstream band--the love of pop radio and teen magazines like "16". That was the plan. Thye were the biggest band on the planet.

The same with Alice and Trash. Gone was the psycho from the "Live In The Flesh" tour and in his place was the hair metal make-up less pop rock singer. Alice played the Trashes The World tour as a straight out rock singer (out of character) for quite a bit of the show. Everything about it fit the mold for the mainstream of the time. Again--they went to enormous lengths to achieve this. The album was a genius of marketing--they got it right with everything. Shep Gordon is an absolute genius!

Now after all that blather---I still HATE the album!

Mr.Bluelegs · Post by **Mr.Bluelegs** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:48 am

Great observation, Mr. B. However, the band was still scary & subversive after BDB, maybe not so much to their original fans but definitely to their new fans and the general public. "I Love the Dead", "Sick Things", & "Raped and Freezing" were pretty subversive for 1973. The album was a brilliantly calculated balance between commercial aspirations & shock factor. It obviously succeeded on all levels making them the biggest band in the land.

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:59 am

Mr.Bluelegs wrote:Great observation, Mr. B. However, the band was still scary & subversive after BDB, maybe not so much to their original fans but definitely to their new fans and the general public. "I Love the Dead", "Sick Things", & "Raped and Freezing" were pretty subversive for 1973. The album was a brilliantly calculated balance between commercial aspirations & shock factor. It obviously succeeded on all levels making them the biggest band in the land.

Agree with this 100%. I Love The Dead was very creep to this 13 yr old back in 73 along with all the pics we saw of hatchets babies and the like.

Devon · Post by **Devon** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:40 am

pitkin88 wrote:Bad business they never followed up with another Child album. If money and being back in the limelight was the goal it was a huge mis step from Shep and Alice.

Working with Desmond Child was not a guarantee of anything tho. He, for the most part, is not an album producer. He mostly wrote and produced singles for people. However, Desmond does have a couple of song-writing credits on "Hey Stoopid" and did co-write "I Am Made of You" on W2MN. This is more akin to what Desmond normally does.

I would argue that the reason "Hey Stoopid" wasn't as strong of a seller as Trash is because it didn't have another "Poison" to go along with it. I don't know about over there in the UK, but in the U.S. when "Trash" came out it initially charted horribly. According to Billboard, it debuted at #161. Source: http://www.billboard.com/charts/billboa ... 1989-08-12 It was only when "Poison" and possibly the tour took off that "Trash" started climbing the charts.

mr.barlow · Post by **mr.barlow** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:38 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
Mr.Bluelegs wrote:Great observation, Mr. B. However, the band was still scary & subversive after BDB, maybe not so much to their original fans but definitely to their new fans and the general public. "I Love the Dead", "Sick Things", & "Raped and Freezing" were pretty subversive for 1973. The album was a brilliantly calculated balance between commercial aspirations & shock factor. It obviously succeeded on all levels making them the biggest band in the land.

Agree with this 100%. I Love The Dead was very creep to this 13 yr old back in 73 along with all the pics we saw of hatchets babies and the like.

I agree that Sick Things and I Love The Dead were the creepy elements on the album, however the overall tone of the album was commercial and light. Also, the packaging and photos were also light-hearted and very non-threatening.

Once this album took off and the band were earning millions it was impossible to put it back in the bottle. How subversive and creepy could a band be that flies around the world in their own jumbo jet and drives around in limousines?

Alice may have been singing about loving the dead but they were in the pages of teeny-bopper magazines right next to David Cassidy and The Bay City Rollers!

They were now being seen for who they were--a bunch of talented nice guys who were having fun with it all! That was the tone captured by the B$B album. It was now impossible for them to go back to being the creepy weirdos. It was time to move foward. Alice, Shep and Ezrin saw the potential.

Alice continued to try and cater to the new and old fans with WTMN which was in the same vein as B$B. It was an album of radio friendly pop songs with a few creepy songs like Steven. It was the natural follow-up to B$B.

At any rate--cut to Trash and it was the same thing all over again. Alice re-established himself as the "horror" rock star who played hard rock and built enough following and buzz to relaunch himself into the mainstream. They simply repeated the B$B formula for success.

It has to be understood that Alice literally rebuilt his career from scratch starting back in 1984. The industry wanted nothing to do with him, the majority of the fans had given up--or at best were left very confused by his previous albums, and the music tastes had changed so much that when he decided to come back he had everything working against him. What he achieved in those few years is just astonishing. Trash was the culmination of it all and it was time for Alice to cash in on his success.

Shoesalesman · Post by **Shoesalesman** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:31 am

Toronto Bob wrote:Terry David Mulligan

Wow. Haven't heard THAT name in years. He was great on CBC's Good Rockin' Tonight.

Trash is a decent album. Loved it when it came out, hated it years later, now coming to enjoy it again. Very peak-and-valley album for me.

MrD Returns · Post by **MrD Returns** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:25 pm

I for one reason or another don't have this one in my collection although I've heard most of the songs. Yeah I like it ok. I think Poison is a really good song.
As far as this forum is concerned I see why so many don't like it but obviously many others did because it sold like a gajillion copies.

For what it's worth there are tons of covers of Poison on youtube.
Some are really good and some are just terrible but I think after Only Women and maybe Schools Out it has to be the most covered song.

Babysquid · Post by **Babysquid** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:54 am

I have a soft spot for Trash. To be fair it was the first album I ever owned and for a few weeks at least the only album I owned. So you can imagine I listened to it a lot and the music is kind of in my blood now. I'd never heard of Alice Cooper and I got Trash for my birthday because I'd heard Poison and It blew me away. It took me a while to get into the other songs, but I perservered and my Trash tape and Walkman were with me everywhere I went. I can remember playing This Maniac's In Love With You to a rather unimpressed teacher in music class, I think her comments were along the lines of "he doesn't really sing does he?" And " you do realize those arn't real horns at the end there don't you"
Of course I soon got into more music and Trash rapidly became that embarrassing first record, especially when all the other hip kids were bullshitting about how the first record they bought was Can's Tago Mago or Trout Mask Replica when they were 6!
When I look back at Trash now I see it almost as a hair metal paint by numbers, it's almost a parody of the genre. Someone in another post offered the theory that it was done as a joke and then called Trash just in case you didn't get it. I don't believe this myself but like the idea.
When I listen to it now it's more a nostalgia thing or if someone wants to listen to something cheesy and eighties at a party.

Anyone Else Like the Trash Album?

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