Dennis Dunaway book reviews

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by SickThings » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:44 am

Back in the '70s, getting a straight answer from the guys in KISS was nigh impossible. Those were the days when Ace claimed to be from the planet Jendel, Gene was hatched from an egg, etc.

Getting honest replies from them about stuff didn't start happening until the '80s, and even now, a lot of it is fiction---including the stuff told in some of the books they've written.

Makeup wasn't the only thing they "borrowed" from Alice....

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:58 am

From Gunner:
I believe that when interviewers ask questions to an artist then they want truthful replies because I think fans want to know what REALLY happened/happens

It depends on who the interviewer is. Most people Alice is interviewed by are mainstream journalists who are looking to fill space. They are generally not seekers of the truth. As Mr. Barlow, RemarkablyInsincere and I have previously pointed out, it is pretty easy to work out the 'truth' for yourself without having to have it all laid out for you for your convenience.

>Would any of care to give me examples of other artists that give the bullshit replies on the scale of Alice?

It might be easier to ask if there is anyone in his position who has not done that.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by SickThings » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:20 pm

Speaking of... This is relevant because of the truth that Affleck wanted to keep hidden. This is the essentially the same thing.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/24/pb ... ck-episode

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:54 pm

I'm not sure how whether or not it was Lester Chambers, Jimi Hendrix or Winston Churchill that introduced Shep to the band relates to Ben Affleck trying to cover up the fact this his ancestors owned slaves.

To be honest, I'm not sure how Ben Affleck's ancestors owning slaves has any relevance to Ben Affleck and his personal life or career. I'm sure any one of us has it's share of rotten fruit in our family trees!

It's utter nonsense to think that a relative who lived--and died--over 150 years ago-has any bearing on a person living today.

Also, it's my opinion that Alice keeps his private life private--as that's what it is--private. Why does he have to share it with anyone? He is an entertainer and he talks entertainment. Even with his career, Alice has never been a person who was intent on documenting each bowel movement he took while on tour in 1971. He was too busy working and enjoying himself.

We are not discussing the historical details and events about the building of the atom bomb. This is Alice Cooper--a role being played by an entertainer. It was never taken too seriously by Alice. I think he takes his career and music seriously--namely to keep him in business so to speak, but he never cared too much about the intimate details. This is nothing new--he's been doing this since day one.

I would go so far to say that he may invent these stories to purposely get under the skin of people who take it all too seriously. I think this is one of the reasons that Johhny Rotten likes him so much. Alice truly understands how truly ridiculous it all is and he is having a great time being able to make millions of dollars by being ridiculous.

It's no wonder Groucho Marx adored him!

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:01 pm

Look at it this way--the other members of the original band should be thrilled that Alice tells his tall tales. If Alice told the true accountings of the events, why woud there be the need to buy their books to get the actual accounting of events?

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by SickThings » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:17 pm

mr.barlow wrote:I'm not sure how whether or not it was Lester Chambers, Jimi Hendrix or Winston Churchill that introduced Shep to the band relates to Ben Affleck trying to cover up the fact this his ancestors owned slaves.
The point was simply that all celebrities---actors, musicians, whatever---embellish the truth, either by exaggeration or by not revealing facts. Birthdates, ancestral history, etc, are all fair game for all celebrities.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:03 am

I disagree. Just because a celebrity is a public figure does not make it "fair game" to pry into their personal lives.If a celebrity chooses to talk about their personal life or certain aspects of it than it opens it up for discussion.

Alice does sometimes give us a brief glimpse into his personal life with comments about his golf game and his devout Christian religious beliefs. Those subjects are then "on the table" so to speak.

But anything Alice, or any celebrity wishes to keep private should be respected and be off limits.

When it comes to "ancestral history" --who cares? Unless the celebrity is a second generation celebrity/artists say like Zak Starkey than what does it have to do with anything. If Alice had a relative that lived in 1864 who worked as a blacksmith that made horseshoes for the Confederate Army--how does that have any bearing on the life and career of Alice Cooper? It's nonsense. The whole Ben Affleck thing is nonsense.

It's funny as there are those wringing their hands about how Alice destroyed the "mystique" of the character by mainstreaming it and yet bemoan when Alice adds a little flavor and myth to a story to add a little mystique. The surest way to keep people guessing is to have them to try and figure out what is really going on--or what actually went on.

Just look at the words spent here on this board discussing the chicken story and Shep's introduction to the band. These are events that happened nearly 50 years ago and yet--because of Alice embellishments--are still being discussed today.

Like I said before--the truth is out there. It's not hard to find. Also, Alice has been inconsistent in his telling of certain events since day one. I'm sure a lot of that inconsistency was by design. Alice likes toying with people--it's how he rose to fame. He was a nice kid from Phoenix who got the whole world thinking he was a psychopathic monster when in reality he was just a funny talented guy who drank too much.

Using your rationale, I guess an argument could be made that his whole career was just one giant embellished work of fiction. How dare a nice guy deceive the world by having them think he was a psycho! That's just terrible!

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by pitkin88 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:37 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From Gunner:
I believe that when interviewers ask questions to an artist then they want truthful replies because I think fans want to know what REALLY happened/happens

It depends on who the interviewer is. Most people Alice is interviewed by are mainstream journalists who are looking to fill space. They are generally not seekers of the truth. As Mr. Barlow, RemarkablyInsincere and I have previously pointed out, it is pretty easy to work out the 'truth' for yourself without having to have it all laid out for you for your convenience.

>Would any of care to give me examples of other artists that give the bullshit replies on the scale of Alice?

It might be easier to ask if there is anyone in his position who has not done that.


Johny Ramone, The Sex Pistols, Brian Eno, x, Lou Reed, Johnny Cash.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:23 pm

From pitkin88:
"Johny Ramone, The Sex Pistols, Brian Eno, x, Lou Reed, Johnny Cash."

It isn't clear whether you're replying to Gunner or me, but if it's me, The Sex Pistols would not be a good example and that would need to be discussed in another forum.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by pitkin88 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:43 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From pitkin88:
"Johny Ramone, The Sex Pistols, Brian Eno, x, Lou Reed, Johnny Cash."

It isn't clear whether you're replying to Gunner or me, but if it's me, The Sex Pistols would not be a good example and that would need to be discussed in another forum.


Yeah that Johnny Rotten is a liar. As Johnny Cash once sang " Lies have to be covered up the truth can run around naked ". I was replying to you by the way though this might help The Trigger Man too.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by SickThings » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:28 pm

mr.barlow wrote:I disagree. Just because a celebrity is a public figure does not make it "fair game" to pry into their personal lives.
I'm not sure whom you are addressing here. I never said or implied that it was. I was simply providing another example of what Gunner asked for: another celebrity who doesn't tell (the whole) truth. The Affleck thing popped up in my newsfeed right about the time I read Gunner's post, so I provided the link as another example of how common it is for celebrities to do that.

I personally find it sickening how much some people want to pry into celebrities' lives.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:55 pm

From pitkin88:
"Yeah that Johnny Rotten is a liar."

As usual, you're missing the point which is that he wasn't the one that created the mythology around The Sex Pistols but as I said, that's a discussion for another forum.

>As Johnny Cash once sang " Lies have to be covered up the truth can run around naked ".

How profound, but as has been discussed a billion times, "Lies" don't serve the same purpose as entertaining stories, because ultimately, what we're discussing is all just show - business, not a court of law.

>>I was replying to you by the way though this might help The Trigger Man too.

I don't know who that is.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:01 pm

SickThings wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:I disagree. Just because a celebrity is a public figure does not make it "fair game" to pry into their personal lives.
I'm not sure whom you are addressing here. I never said or implied that it was. I was simply providing another example of what Gunner asked for: another celebrity who doesn't tell (the whole) truth. The Affleck thing popped up in my newsfeed right about the time I read Gunner's post, so I provided the link as another example of how common it is for celebrities to do that.

I personally find it sickening how much some people want to pry into celebrities' lives.

Hunter
As far as a celebrity not telling "the whole truth" it has to be taken into context as to what is being discussed. If a celebrity wishes to not tell "the whole truth" in regards to a personal matter it is well within their right to do so.

Here's a two examples of this in regards to Alice Cooper.

It is clear that management made a concerted effort to not tell "the whole truth" about Glen Buxton's substance abuse problems and gradual withdrawal from musical involvement with the band after "School's Out". It now pretty much common knowledge that Glen had very limited involvement in the B$B sessions at best and at worst that he didn't play a note on the "Billion Dollar Babies" album but yet was given full credit. This obscuring of the truth was done for many reasons, some for business and image of the band, but I think in this case it was done more out of friendship and compassion. Does anyone think that the telling of the "whole truth" at the time would have been better?

The other would be Alice's cocaine abuse in the early 1980s. Once again, the "whole truth" was not told but it was evident to any fan with a set of eyes that Alice problems went far beyond a relapse with alcohol. It was the low point in the life and career of Alice and he was really struggling and those around him felt it best not to tell the "whole truth" for various reasons. Again--what good would it have served if the"whole truth" was told in 1982? It's also still quite obvious that Alice still does not like to talk about or dwell on that awful period in his life. It seems that all of those around him respect his wishes on this and don't talk to much about it other than confirming they knew about it. Alice confided quite a bit to Dick Wagner during the Dada sessions and Wagner could have increased his book sales if he told "the whole truth" in his book. Wagner publicly told anyone who would listen that he would never talk about it. He took it to his grave. Also, all of the original band members were aware of Alice's condition at the time and to their credit--none of them ever offered up any intimate details. It'called respect.

Now when it comes to embellishments and hype, that's a whole other story. ALL celebrities embellish and "color" the truth. It's a big business called public relations and marketing. ALL celebrities tell tall tales. All of the members of the original band were VERY involved in furthering the "tall tales" of the original band when they were members. The "ouiji board" story is absolutely ridiculous and REAKS of be a fake p.r. release--even at the time. I mean who would actually believe it? Well,, millions of people did! Once they started getting away with feeding the public nonsense and they would believe it, they ran with it! Why is anyone surprised or upset that Alice is still doing it?

At any rate---it's my opinion that any celebrity is not required to tell the public about anything in their personal life and that it's strictly off limits. Anyone with a brain should know that any story a celebrity is spinning about their exploits is rife with embellishment. Nearly everything a celebrity does or says publicly is very calculated. It's there to sell an image or a product. And most of the time the actual truth of the story is very boring or typical and not good for business.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:08 pm

Speaking of tall tales--one that still lingers a bit today--the one where Alice Cooper was born on Christmas Day.

I remember people talking about how it's awful how such an "evil man" like Alice Cooper could be born on Christmas Day.

Does anyone know if this one was a creation of Shep and fed to the media or did it develop on it's own?

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by Si » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:17 pm

mr.barlow wrote:Speaking of tall tales--one that still lingers a bit today--the one where Alice Cooper was born on Christmas Day.

I remember people talking about how it's awful how such an "evil man" like Alice Cooper could be born on Christmas Day.

Does anyone know if this one was a creation of Shep and fed to the media or did it develop on it's own?
As I understand it was an error that one was printed in Rolling Stone and as people thought Rolling Stone knew everything (and mainstream journalists would use it for music reference) it was endlessly repeated.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:12 am

Thanks Si,
Are you actually saying the Editors of Rolling Stone got something wrong? xjumpingx No need for reply, we all know they've done worse. :x
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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by VinceRaven » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:17 pm

Without digging it out to check, I'm sure the gatefold sleeve of Schooldays repeated the mistake of the Christmas Day birthday. I seem to recall it gave 1945 as the year as well.

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by Headbangers Ball » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:31 pm

My ex just bought me the book for my forthcoming birhday (next saturday)
I'm quite stoked, to be honest..
I'll let you know what I think of it when I read it.
I know my opinion is not worth a rabbit's piss drop but anyway...

Ha ha ha! I bought it purely to put away and resell at a later date. Hopefully to make some moolah as I have done with other stuff.

TBH, We have heard it all (from a variety of bands) - its nothing new and who really cares apart from the entertainment value of reading the book?
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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by Si » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:41 pm

Headbangers Ball wrote:My ex just bought me the book for my forthcoming birhday (next saturday)
I'm quite stoked, to be honest..
I'll let you know what I think of it when I read it.
I know my opinion is not worth a rabbit's piss drop but anyway...

Ha ha ha! I bought it purely to put away and resell at a later date. Hopefully to make some moolah as I have done with other stuff.

TBH, We have heard it all (from a variety of bands) - its nothing new and who really cares apart from the entertainment value of reading the book?
So which is it? you bought it or your ex bought it for you? If the former I'm sure he feels good that you are just intending to sell his gift to make money for yourself.

And for your information a LOT of people care and want to read Dennis' side of the story! We've waited for it for 15 years!

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Re: Dennis Dunaway book reviews

Post by mr.barlow » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:04 am

Headbangers Ball wrote:My ex just bought me the book for my forthcoming birhday (next saturday)
I'm quite stoked, to be honest..
I'll let you know what I think of it when I read it.
I know my opinion is not worth a rabbit's piss drop but anyway...

Ha ha ha! I bought it purely to put away and resell at a later date. Hopefully to make some moolah as I have done with other stuff.

TBH, We have heard it all (from a variety of bands) - its nothing new and who really cares apart from the entertainment value of reading the book?
I would suggest that if you find this to be a great investment opportunity (which it is) that you take full advantage of it and purchase a few thousand books. Why settle on a return on just one copy when you have can have it on a few thousand copies?

Also, it will make Dennis very happy.

As far as "hearing it all before" well that can be said of every great book from the works of Shakespeare to Hemingway. After all "we've heard it all before" so why take the time to read them?

Also if you don't really care than why would you read something you have no interest is reading. There are plenty of reads that I'm sure are right up your alley like "Rolling Stone", "Hit Parader" and "Circus".

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