Alice Alcohol v Cocaine

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"I don't think ALice did any drugsother than maybe smoking some weed prior to Taupin."

It was always Budweiser or Seagrams V. O. although it isn't impossible in the early days of the band, that he tried a little bit of this or that out of curiosity. It really is true that his tastes (in other words, for beer and whiskey) were actually pretty mundane.

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"From what I understand he became withdrawn and almost reclusive."

My information is that this happened after he finally quit alcohol.
He has spoken of going through a period of depression soon after that.

>His health suffered greatly and it is very evident on the SF tour f
footage.

Yes but those were the physical signs. In general, according to Brian, his personality had not particularly changed, although Brian soon learned to look out for signs of certain activity.

>That's why it was so incredible to see him make such a great recovery in such a relatively short period of time.

That is just another example of his extreme personality.

[A_MichaelUK]

From darkmenace:
"I'll add more speculation. I think after he stopped drinking the first time he was afraid and nervous to go back on stage without the alcohol buzz."

That isn't "speculation" - that's a fact. He went through the same thing before the very first show on "The Nightmare Returns" tour and I'm sure the same thing happened in 1978 before his first ever sober show.

[pitkin88]

From mr.barlow:
"1978-starts freebasing"

No. It was in 1980 during the "Flush The Fashion" tour. It is possible it might have started the year before during the "Madhouse Rock" tour but I believe not.

But i thought Taupin is credited for introducing Alice to coke during FTI which would have made it 79. Alice certainly looked coke thin on that tour.

Side note. There is some footage of the Toronto no show riot showing Alice by the tour bus, he looks absolutely shocking.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"But i thought Taupin is credited for introducing Alice to coke during FTI which would have made it 79."

That has nothing to do with what mr.barlow wrote though. If you look again at what he wrote which you included in your post, he wrote "1978-starts freebasing" which has nothing to do with who introduced Alice to cocaine or when that happened. So just so that everyone is clear, Alice was indeed introduced to cocaine by Bernie Taupin (although Alice was no stranger to it having been surrounded by it up to that point) and that happened in Europe while they were promoting "From The Inside" which was in in 1978, not "79" as you stated. Alice didn't start freebasing until 1980 (although it possibly started during "Madhouse Rock" as I stated). Hopefully that's clear.

>Alice certainly looked coke thin on that tour.

Yes but that doesn't mean he was freebasing, though. There are other ways of taking that substance.

>Side note. There is some footage of the Toronto no show riot showing Alice by the tour bus, he looks absolutely shocking.

No. That is from the following year on the "Special Forces" tour. He certainly looks no worse than he did on his other television appearances during that tour.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"But i thought Taupin is credited for introducing Alice to coke during FTI which would have made it 79."

That has nothing to do with what mr.barlow wrote though. If you look again at what he wrote which you included in your post, he wrote "1978-starts freebasing" which has nothing to do with who introduced Alice to cocaine or when that happened. So just so that everyone is clear, Alice was indeed introduced to cocaine by Bernie Taupin (although Alice was no stranger to it having been surrounded by it up to that point) and that happened in Europe while they were promoting "From The Inside" which was in in 1978, not "79" as you stated. Alice didn't start freebasing until 1980 (although it possibly started during "Madhouse Rock" as I stated). Hopefully that's clear.

>Alice certainly looked coke thin on that tour.

Yes but that doesn't mean he was freebasing, though. There are other ways of taking that substance.

>Side note. There is some footage of the Toronto no show riot showing Alice by the tour bus, he looks absolutely shocking.

No. That is from the following year on the "Special Forces" tour. He certainly looks no worse than he did on his other television appearances during that tour.

Could you clarify what you mean by " he was no stranger to it "? Do you mean he had tried it occasionally before.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Could you clarify what you mean by " he was no stranger to it "?

I already did. I wrote "having been surrounded by it up to that point" as everybody back in those days in the music business was.

>Do you mean he had tried it occasionally before

I have no idea but if he did, I wouldn't be surprised although I strongly doubt it would have been "occasionally" as he was too busy drinking and trying to stop others from taking it. He could be quite puritanical about it back then (although drinking two bottles of whiskey a day was somehow acceptable) and if I remember correctly, there's a section in "Billion Dollar Baby" about this.

[pitkin88]

So it could be quite possible that Taupin didn't introduce but was the one who helped him get addicted.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"So it could be quite possible that Taupin didn't introduce but was the one who helped him get addicted."

Well, Taupin seems to want to take some of that responsibility which is fine if that's what he wants but I think it's wrong to absolve Alice of all blame. He was an adult who knew what he was doing - nobody forced him to do anything and besides, Taupin wasn't the one who introduced him to freebasing as far as I'm aware.

[pitkin88]

Nancy Wilson from Heart: remembers attending Elton John's swank 33rd birthday party in West Hollywood, where John's songwriting partner, Bernie Taupin, "repeatedly pulled me into the bathroom" and offered her cocaine. "Bernie was convinced that getting me high was the key to seducing me."


Par for the course I guess.

[nurserozetta]

Remember also that Motley Crue wrote in "The Dirt" about walking into a studio that Alice was recording in and they said it was so thick with smoke they could barely see

[recoop]

Nurse rozetta -any idea what year that related to?

[rtbuck]

I did always wonder about Alice on the Strange Case DVD. I first heard that show on the King Biscuit in the late 70's/early 80's & thought his voice was really off and then seeing the video he didn't look healthy at all but there was so much hype on how clean & sober he was during that time. I recently purchased the Midnight Special box set & Alice's 1979 appearance was great. So much better than the Strange Case. Also...I don't have it anymore but Alice was on Jim Ladd's Innerview to promote From the Inside & Alice was talking about he Bernie getting together saying that he just got out of the hospital to treat his alcohol problem & then he said that Bernie recently went through his own cleansing for his trip so I really thought both were stone cold sober. I wish I still had my cassette of that interview because it was an awesome show back in the days when I set the portable cassette recorder next to the speaker

[recoop]

Interesting rtbuck- it is difficult trying to put the timing of these events against what we think we know now.

I have wondered about the omission of " No Tricks" from FTI- sensitivity regarding people thinking AC took illegal drugs perhaps-if that is the case fair enough although great track to omit

[A_MichaelUK]

From recoop:
"any idea what year that related to?"

Hopefully nobody minds me answering but it was 1982, I believe.

[A_MichaelUK]

From recoop:
"sensitivity regarding people thinking AC took illegal drugs perhaps"

I doubt it - if that was the case it would never have been released. If you look at the lyrics of "Millie And Billie", that has a first person narrative as well.

[recoop]

Cannot think why anyone would mind you answering Andy- glad to find out it was 1982 and not a few years later (when he was clean!)- Whoever was smoking/inhaling/ingesting whatever not good for Alice with I think some history of bronchial problems

[mr.barlow]

Cannot think why anyone would mind you answering Andy- glad to find out it was 1982 and not a few years later (when he was clean!)- Whoever was smoking/inhaling/ingesting whatever not good for Alice with I think some history of bronchial problems

I'm sure Andy will agree with me when I say that come 1986--there was absolutley NO drug use--by ANYONE in or around Alice. The Nightmare Returns tour was a pivitol event in the career of Alice and they treated it as such. . Any kind of substance abuse --by ANYONE--was NOT tolerated. The professionallism of all involved was something to be seen. Everyone was at the top of their game and it's the reason the tour was so successful.

[mr.barlow]

Interesting rtbuck- it is difficult trying to put the timing of these events against what we think we know now.

I have wondered about the omission of " No Tricks" from FTI- sensitivity regarding people thinking AC took illegal drugs perhaps-if that is the case fair enough although great track to omit

I think that track was left off the album as it didn;t fit in with the flow of the rest of the tracks, It's an incredible song but even today you can hear where it would not fit anywhere in that album.

[mr.barlow]

Remember also that Motley Crue wrote in "The Dirt" about walking into a studio that Alice was recording in and they said it was so thick with smoke they could barely see

Alice's drug use was not that big of a secret as many make it out to be. Granted, it was not talked about by his peers (the Crue mention was a rare one)--I think out of respecting his privacy--and the press never really paid attention to it--BUT inside the industry it was NOT a secret at all.

Also, to any fan who had a pair of working eyes and common sense--it was so damn obvious. All you had to do was look at him! I remember seeing him on The Charlie Rose Show in 1981. I was a teenager and my dear departed mother called me into the room to tell me that Alice was on tv. I can hear her words today--she said "my God that guy is strung out on drugs--he looks awful!". I recorded the show on my VCR and played it for my friends. (I still have the tape). We were ALL convinced he was on drugs. The thing is we really didn't care. We ALL loved Special Forces!