Alice joins Motley Crue for more dates in 2015

[pitkin88]

As someone whon saw both shows WTMN was better. The set list and band was far superior. Kane's noodlings and over playing didn't hold a candle to Hunter and Wagner. The huge stand out was the screen which was amazing. It really looked like Alice ran from the stage and onto the screen. Nothing like that had been seen before and it brought the house down. The WTMN movie doesn't do the effect any justice at all. The filmed it to close in and the effect was lost. You really had to be there.

[Swinger]

They then got a chance for the Friday The 13th film and reworked the original "Trick Bag" into "He's Back". I think it was pretty much a rush job.

Wasn't it the other way around? The original version of "He's Back" got new lyrics and became "Trick Bag" and they wrote a new "He's Back" only keeping some of the original lyrics.

[mr.barlow]

They then got a chance for the Friday The 13th film and reworked the original "Trick Bag" into "He's Back". I think it was pretty much a rush job.

Wasn't it the other way around? The original version of "He's Back" got new lyrics and became "Trick Bag" and they wrote a new "He's Back" only keeping some of the original lyrics.

You are correct. I'll blame it on the effects of age. The third co-writer on the album version is Tom Kelly. he was a co-writer of some of the biggest hits of the mid- 1980s. I think he wrote the music to that song and and then Alice added the lyrics and Kane maybe added a few things. This may have been done at the insistence of MCA as maybe they felt it was better tith go with a then current hit pop song writer for the single and movie soundtrack. Hopefully someone on here can confirm this.

[pitkin88]

Cheesy arsed song with squelchy fart keyboards. Some here swoon over it but I honestly have no idea why.

[mr.barlow]

Cheesy arsed song with squelchy fart keyboards. Some here swoon over it but I honestly have no idea why.

I never cared much for it either. It sure doesn't sound like Kane Roberts' writing style. It's very evident as to who wrote the music. I'm sure the lyrics are Alice's.They're sure not his best--but at least it got some play on MTV at the time and lots of press. I remember waiting until midnight one night when MTV had the world premiere of the video. It was great seeing Alice on MTV with new music but I remember even then thinking how awful the video actually was---and it's gotten worse with age.

The one thing I never understood about MTV era Alice was for as far ahead of bis time he was with video--the video for Elected is classic as was The Nightmare TV Special, his mid-1980s-early 1990s era videos were not that good--and that's being polite.

The videos for the Trash singles were exactly like the album. They looked like every other hair metal bands videos. Lame and stupid.

[pitkin88]

Cheesy arsed song with squelchy fart keyboards. Some here swoon over it but I honestly have no idea why.

I never cared much for it either. It sure doesn't sound like Kane Roberts' writing style. It's very evident as to who wrote the music. I'm sure the lyrics are Alice's.They're sure not his best--but at least it got some play on MTV at the time and lots of press. I remember waiting until midnight one night when MTV had the world premiere of the video. It was great seeing Alice on MTV with new music but I remember even then thinking how awful the video actually was---and it's gotten worse with age.

The one thing I never understood about MTV era Alice was for as far ahead of bis time he was with video--the video for Elected is classic as was The Nightmare TV Special, his mid-1980s-early 1990s era videos were not that good--and that's being polite.

The videos for the Trash singles were exactly like the album. They looked like every other hair metal bands videos. Lame and stupid.

Alice visually was made for MTV but they were more into Flock Of Seagulls and other Brit synth pop along with Genesis and their cardigans.

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"I think on Constrictor there are a few songs that were Kane Roberts songs"

He was certainly the main instigator (and was actually important in other ways as well). They wrote a lot of songs together in that year or so before the album was recorded, including songs which never recorded in a final form. Alice also tried writing with at least one other writer (which was Neil Giraldo) but nothing came out of that collaboration.

>that Alice added to or changed the lyrics--if he did anything at all.

He led the direction of the songs during the writing process, coming up with most of the melodies, suggesting arrangements and so on, so his contributions were very significant. I was getting regular updates during that time and he felt very confident having Kane to work with. Kane has given quite a few interviews in recent years where he talks about that period in some detail.

>Silly lyrics,

I thought they pretty good, actually.

>I think that the awful cover art was also budget related.

I actually like it, but yes I think cost was a factor. I remember having the original concept described to me (the snake was supposed to go in and out of every orifice in Alice's head) and there was some talk of getting H. R. Giger to do it (as he had just designed the art for "KooKoo" by Debbie Harry which became very famous).

>Again, the focus was more on the eventual tour than the album itself so I think that the cutting of corners wasn't met with much dismay by all involved. It was more let's get it out and get it on the road. It proved to be right.

I think they were also hoping that the connection with horror films would have more impact than it did, though.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"The WTMN movie doesn't do the effect any justice at all."

I don't disagree and as good as the film is, I am not sure it captures the full impact of the show. It is all down to how many cameras you have to capture all the action and how you edit it. I have seen some other footage of that show as well as maybe hundreds of unpublished pictures from different angles and while there is nothing particularly new, you get a different perspective of how the show looked.

>The filmed it to close in and the effect was lost. You really had to be there.

As you may know, some of that was filmed in a studio after the two shows, not at the actual shows, although I think there is one bit where you clearly see Alice come out of the screen.

[Si]

I think they were also hoping that the connection with horror films would have more impact than it did, though.

I don`t know about that.
In the 70s Alice Cooper was more seen as dangerous and more "Exocist" as in serious horror/fear. The association with Friday 13th et al was a step back to comedy horror which has dogged him to this day. It's the all shock/no substance horror you watch for laughs after a night down the pub, where the plot doesn`t really matter. When he tries to do something more substantial with the genre (TLT) it hasn't overturned the general association people have with the slasher type things.

And you are wrong, the cover of Constrictor really stinks haha

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"his mid-1980s-early 1990s era videos were not that good--and that's being polite."

I vaguely remember a thread here about any mistakes or errors of artistic and professional judgement that were made and I think I wrote that probably the biggest failure (more so than the tired old accusation about golf) was the failure to capitalise on the rise of video as a promotional and artistic tool and how Alice never really benefitted from it. It was both hugely ironic and hugely disappointing.

>The videos for the Trash singles were exactly like the album. They looked like every other hair metal bands videos. Lame and stupid.

I actually like "Bed Of Nails" and that giant spider in "Poison" (which I think was meant to look as if it had been designed by Salvador Dali and Pablo Picasso)but the rest were very much products of their time just like the albums those songs came from. I don't hate them but there wasn't a huge amount to be impressed with.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The association with Friday 13th et al was a step back to comedy horror which has dogged him to this day.

I know. I meant commercial impact in that it was hoped the album would be as successful as those films were.

>It's the all shock/no substance horror you watch for laughs after a night down the pub, where the plot doesn`t really matter.

That is mainly why he liked those films!

> When he tries to do something more substantial with the genre (TLT) it hasn't overturned the general association people have with the slasher type things.

I don't disagree but if that album had done better, than that might have happened.

>And you are wrong, the cover of Constrictor really stinks haha

I like the startled look on his face but the worst one has to be "Raise Your Fist And Yell" (and again, the original idea for that sounded pretty good).

[Si]

>
>It's the all shock/no substance horror you watch for laughs after a night down the pub, where the plot doesn`t really matter.

That is mainly why he liked those films!

Oh I know!!! But that isn`t my point. Alice should have done what interested him (and did) but in hindsight the choice may not have been in his best interests long term.

>
> When he tries to do something more substantial with the genre (TLT) it hasn't overturned the general association people have with the slasher type things.

I don't disagree but if that album had done better, than that might have happened.

Maybe, we'll never know. Personally I think that by then the link was too strong to ever really lose.

>
I like the startled look on his face but the worst one has to be "Raise Your Fist And Yell" (and again, the original idea for that sounded pretty good).

I agree. RYF is abysmal and embrassing, but so is Constrictor. With photoshop you could do it better now but back then the results didn`t even look real. It was very badly done.

With appologies to the original poster, as we are waaay off his topic now, I have been disapointed with pretty much every AC album *front* cover since BP (which was okay). For such a visual artist I find the covers, which it seems HAVE to feature Alice's face, are all pretty dull. Even W2MN, which had a great idea, was ruined by the poor photo added to the artwork.
Everytime a new album comes out I look for ideas to revamp the look of the site to mirror it and long ago gave up as there normally isn`t anything interesting to use.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Si:
"I have been disapointed with pretty much every AC album *front* cover since BP (which was okay)."

I thought the ones for "The Eyes Of Alice Cooper" and "Along Came A Spider" (and maybe "Dragontown") were good. The logo for "Dirty Diamonds" is horrible and I totally agree about "Welcome 2 My Nightmare".

Also, in another post, I stated that "In Touch With (Your Feminine Side)" was dropped from the tour it was performed on, but that was incorrect.

[Rob]

Heads up down under

Alice Cooper has revealed that he’ll be supporting Mötley Crüe when they bring their last-ever world tour to Australia in May.
Read more at http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/417 ... dGrrXf7.99

[Si]

Heads up down under

Alice Cooper has revealed that he’ll be supporting Mötley Crüe when they bring their last-ever world tour to Australia in May.
Read more at http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/417 ... dGrrXf7.99

Yeah I saw that this morning as well. I don`t think it's officially confirmed yet which is why I'm holding on the news page until it is.
No big surprise if it happens.

[mr.barlow]

I remember reading an interview with Alice --I believe at the time of the RYFAY release that the cover was done that way intentionally. The album title was also intentionally cheesy on purpose The purpose was to emulate the cheap looking horrible covers that were the standard issue of indie metal bands. Another Alice inside joke that nobody got. But that could be all spin to cover for a a bad choice. Who knows.

I don't think artwork that was that awfully bad could pass muster with both an artist of Alice's caliber, Shep and the label unless it was intentional.

They'd have been better off having the insert artwork as the cover. It went on to great fame on the Trash tour.

I like the album itself and it was on another planet compared to Constrictor and it has held up pretty good. There's really not a bad song on the album. There are some silly lyrics, namely "Freedom" but considering it's intended audience it's understandable.

To me the worst album cover ever is Welcome 2 My Nightmare. It ruined any good vibe that the album may have had. Alice looks just downright stupid. What was he thinking?? He was offering a sequel to an album who's cover is considered on the greatest in the history of rock n roll and he gives it one of the worst album covers in the history of music.

[Si]

To me the worst album cover ever is Welcome 2 My Nightmare. It ruined any good vibe that the album may have had. Alice looks just downright stupid. What was he thinking?? He was offering a sequel to an album who's cover is considered on the greatest in the history of rock n roll and he gives it one of the worst album covers in the history of music.

Too be fair the cover design and everything BUT the photo part is excellent. It's the use of the terrible photo that ruins the whole thing. It would have been far better to update the original painted image in line with the rest of the cover.

[ElectedPlus]

I've heard of an artist whose record label requested that their face appear on the cover, and I've since wondered if Alice has been in a similar situation for some of the albums.

[mr.barlow]

As someone whon saw both shows WTMN was better. The set list and band was far superior. Kane's noodlings and over playing didn't hold a candle to Hunter and Wagner. The huge stand out was the screen which was amazing. It really looked like Alice ran from the stage and onto the screen. Nothing like that had been seen before and it brought the house down. The WTMN movie doesn't do the effect any justice at all. The filmed it to close in and the effect was lost. You really had to be there.

I'm sure the seeing the show in person was really incredible. It's never the same on video. I think why I love The Nightmare Returns so much was that it was incredible to see Alice back at the very top of his game after being at his lowest point only a few years earlier.

I agree that Hunter and Wagner were far better than Kane Roberts. Kane was a differnt style of player--more a shredder.

I always felt that Dick Wagner was the most important person in Alice's solo career and also started to play a part in the sound of the original band starting with School's Out. Whether it be in his recorded output on the albums, or the influence he had on Ezrin's arrangements of the songs--his influence was there. Ezrin arranged the songs around each musician. He tailored it to their tone, style and abilities. I would go so far as to say that Ezrin was likely an uncredited composer on quite a bit of the original band's output.

I think a lot of it had to do with his ability to be able to play and compose all styles of music. Hunter was the same with his playing, They were both very versatile and adapatable and could give Ezrin whatever he wanted to achieve.

I would love for someday there be a breakdown of who played what on each and every song. A complete disclosure of everyone who is heard on any given track.

I remember a Playboy interview that came out right after John Lennon was murdered. In it Lennon discussed most of The Beatles songs and tells about where they got the idea for the song, who wrote it (Paul, himself--or collaboration) and also George Martin's contributions if they were notable. My opinion is without George Martin, The Beatles would have never been The Beatles.

My opinion is the same for Ezrin.

I would love to see either Alice, or better yet--Alice along with the remaining members of the original band and Ezrin do something like that article. Go song by song and disect them. I'd also like them to do the same for the final recorded song. Talk about, openly, who played what on each song. I'd like to hear the original band talk about how much Ezrin changed the compositions from their original form.

It's too bad that Wagner has passed away as I was hoping that he would give mnore insight into the work he did with the original band .

[pitkin88]

Mr Barlow here are some rough notes I made from various sources:

Mick Mashbir
All tracks except Sick Things, Elected and Generation Landslide.

Steve Hunter
So I went through the album 'Billion Dollar Babies' and as far as I can remember this is what I did on the record:
1) Hello Hooray - lap steel solo in the middle section
2) Raped and Freezin' - second solo after Glenn
3) Billion Dollar Babies - solo #2 (left channel I think) and the solo at the end
4) Unfinished Sweet - slide part before last verse
5) Generation Landslide - solo
6) Sick Things - solo at end
Rockin Reggie Vincent: Billion Dollar Babies/Elected/Raped and Freezin/No More Mr Nice Guy
Dick Wagner: Guitar on I Love The Dead. Lead on Hello Hurray ( according to Rockin Reggie )

Muscle Of Love.

Mick wrote the verse on Never Been Sold Before
Co wrote Hard Hearted Alice with Mike.

Wagner: Jack Richardson brought me in to play on “Big Apple Dreamin’” and “Workin’ Up a Sweat”
WAGNER