AC&Friends even sadder than Tom Snyder appearance

[Lazarus]

Just watched "Alice Cooper and Friends" and found it even more unsettling than Alice's notorious 1981 appearance on Tom Snyder's "Tomorrow Show". Emaciated and drugged up as the SF-era Alice was, he still put on a hell of a performance. But the Alice that wandered around that Anaheim stage in 1977 looks like he's trapped in the last place in which he wants to be. Occasionally he snaps into a seemingly confident stage move, as though exercising reflexive muscle memory, but much of the time he's just standing there without any stage presence whatsoever, glassy-eyed like someone who's never faced an audience. Welcome to my nightmare, indeed. The 1981 Alice may have appeared physically close to death, but the 1977 Alice looked like he was mentally halfway there.

[philouze]

I Love The Dead is my favorite Alice song. His rendition of it in AC & Friends is creepy indeed!!

[tuneylune]

Indeed, it is a hard performance to watch.

[Toronto Bob]

I have some sympathy but mostly I feel pissed off. No one forced AC to sign the contracts he did. If he really didn't want to be Alice anymore - don't record and don't tour. There was plenty of music going around, he wasn't doing anyone any favours. I find it very disrespectful of the audience to go on stage in such an incapacitated state. I feel the same way about Jimmy Page and his 1977 tour with Zeppelin. His heroin addiction left his playing ability severely compromised, and between that and Plant not taking care of his voice, made much of the '77 tour a wreck. And let's not get started on Keith Moon and the pathetic waste he turned into. No wonder crap punk music was kicking the hard rock legends' ass. So many of them had turned into the musical equivalent of homeless winos.

It is why few rock artists ever reach the greatness of a Frank Zappa or Rush. Decades of musical innovation, integrity and whoa - they were professionals who showed up prepared to work night in/night out and not stoned or drunk out of their minds.

[While Heaven Wept]

The same could be said of the vast majority of bands in the 70s and 80s..... Stones, Queen, Van Halen, Sabbath. I agree that I find it disrespectful of bands to turn up out of their face, but for many of them it was what defined them to a certain extent.

I personally can't watch the AC & Friends show, it's beyond awful. Thankfully he sorted himself out.

[Toronto Bob]

The same could be said of the vast majority of bands in the 70s and 80s..... Stones, Queen, Van Halen, Sabbath. I agree that I find it disrespectful of bands to turn up out of their face, but for many of them it was what defined them to a certain extent.

I personally can't watch the AC & Friends show, it's beyond awful. Thankfully he sorted himself out.

Hence the reason I wrote "It is why FEW rock stars ever reach the greatness of..."
Ian Anderson is another amazing musician who always gave value to the concert goer

[recoop]

AC and friends sad to watch although good Nazareth content from memory-always wondered whether when Rod Stewart, I believe, referred to Alice as something like "that old man" came from watching him at that concert- I believe Rod was one of the guests. As an aside since ACDC supported Alice mid-late 70s I wonder if Alice and Bon Scott ever drank together-now that would be dangerous

[mr.barlow]

I have some sympathy but mostly I feel pissed off. No one forced AC to sign the contracts he did. If he really didn't want to be Alice anymore - don't record and don't tour. There was plenty of music going around, he wasn't doing anyone any favours. I find it very disrespectful of the audience to go on stage in such an incapacitated state. I feel the same way about Jimmy Page and his 1977 tour with Zeppelin. His heroin addiction left his playing ability severely compromised, and between that and Plant not taking care of his voice, made much of the '77 tour a wreck. And let's not get started on Keith Moon and the pathetic waste he turned into. No wonder crap punk music was kicking the hard rock legends' ass. So many of them had turned into the musical equivalent of homeless winos.

It is why few rock artists ever reach the greatness of a Frank Zappa or Rush. Decades of musical innovation, integrity and whoa - they were professionals who showed up prepared to work night in/night out and not stoned or drunk out of their minds.

I agree with Bob. Although I think that in most cases the addictions get the best of the person/performer without them even realizing it, but if it theier careers--or the fame and money--that are making them turn to drugs and booze than simply quit performing.

One sad truth is that there are quite a few fans who thought it was "cool" to see their idols in such a messed up state. You still hear it today. You hear fans BRAGGING about how much drugs and booze their idols ingested as it were some badge of honor.

Bob is right on when a lot of them became "the musical equivalent of homeless winos" (by the way--a GREAT line).

I'm sure Alice is NOT proud of that performance, or others like it, and I'm also quite sure he is not too proud of his cocaine addiction of the early 1980s. BUT--ALice got a hold of his addictions and made an incredible SOBER comeback. He is a great example of what can be done when one get the courage to overcome addiction.

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"Bob is right on when a lot of them became "the musical equivalent of homeless winos" (by the way--a GREAT line)."

Alice made a similar observation himself.

>I'm sure Alice is NOT proud of that performance,

That is very true.

>and I'm also quite sure he is not too proud of his cocaine addiction of the early 1980s

That is also true but the difference there, not that it's a justification, is that it didn't affect his performances in the way that alcohol did. In fact, it had the opposite effect, which may tell you something about the difference between those two substances.

[darkmenace]

That is also true but the difference there, not that it's a justification, is that it didn't affect his performances in the way that alcohol did. In fact, it had the opposite effect, which may tell you something about the difference between those two substances.

Drunk Alice worked great in the classic years but by L&W it was having a deadening effect which was made worse by trying to do more show biz which required more precision and energy than he seemed capable of.

By the way the worst performance I saw in the 70s by a totally f'ed up band was Aerosmith. It was terrible, I couldn't even tell which songs they were playing. It was noise.

I always wondered what was up with Alice in Madhouse Rock, he seemed wired and his whole approach changed. Gone was the drunk victim version. It seemed more than just being sober, he didn't look good, and now of course we know it was cocaine.

When SF came out was he mixing cocaine with alcohol? I remember hearing that he'd gone back to drinking and so he must have been doing both at some point.

[mr.barlow]

From mr.barlow:
"Bob is right on when a lot of them became "the musical equivalent of homeless winos" (by the way--a GREAT line)."

Alice made a similar observation himself.

>I'm sure Alice is NOT proud of that performance,

That is very true.

>and I'm also quite sure he is not too proud of his cocaine addiction of the early 1980s

That is also true but the difference there, not that it's a justification, is that it didn't affect his performances in the way that alcohol did. In fact, it had the opposite effect, which may tell you something about the difference between those two substances.

I agree as the early 1980s are my favorite period of Alice. The music was so diverse and original and still sounds fresh today. Also, the Special Forces era Alice look was just so damn bizarre--and in a GREAT way! To me that's what an "Alice Cooper" should look like--very disturbing on so many levels. It's still unnerving to see--especially live--he was just downright weird--and so damn fantastic!

The drunk Alice was sad and pathetic. Alice on coke was downright weird and frightening.

I think once Alice got clean and sober for good he kept the edge of the SF era character and just reverted to the look of the classic 1970s era Alice.

[darkmenace]

The drunk Alice was sad and pathetic.

The drunk Alice from 1971-1973 was brilliant, that's why they became so incredibly popular. It was an amazing characterization.

[mr.barlow]

The drunk Alice was sad and pathetic.

The drunk Alice from 1971-1973 was brilliant, that's why they became so incredibly popular. It was an amazing characterization.

The 1977 drunk Alice says all you need to know about how drunk Alice turned out for Alice. What was great in 1971-1973 ends up being ridiculously sad and pathetic. That's the nature of alcohol. Its' the great deceiver. Alcohol didn't make Alice brilliant--it nearly killed him--as did the cocaine nearly did just a few years later.

What made Alice brilliant was Alice.

[recoop]

Re the alcohol, it might provide some altered state which may be creative but ultimately its effect on performance is corrosive(not to mention the effect on the person). Alice has repaid the public for his past bad performaces with his professionalism over the last 28 years or so. I must admit I am now confused as to when the cocaine period was- was it really at the time of the Strange Case of AC- I am not mega interested in finite details of the levels/details to which Alice sunk in terms of substances as not keen on glamourisation of substance misuse(have worked in alcohol abuse field) but I would like to be able to grasp when this cocaine abuse started- was it straight after getting cleaned up from alcohol in 1977 and when the the cocaine end (after Dada?). Thanks

[A_MichaelUK]

From darkmenace:
"When SF came out was he mixing cocaine with alcohol? I remember hearing that he'd gone back to drinking and so he must have been doing both at some point"

I don't think so. I think it was one or the other (he started drinking again after "Zipper Catches Skin").

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
"I think once Alice got clean and sober for good he kept the edge of the SF era character and just reverted to the look of the classic 1970s era Alice."

Yes and also, if you think about it, that's kind of what "Madhouse Rock" was as well.

[A_MichaelUK]

From recoop:
"Alice has repaid the public for his past bad performaces with his professionalism over the last 28 years or so."

Before anyone starts making too much of this, we're talking about a period of just a few months in 1977 when the drinking was at its worst and also about one specific performance. Prior to that, it wasn't particulalrly an impediment.

> I must admit I am now confused as to when the cocaine period was- was it really at the time of the Strange Case of AC-

That was the beginning of it and this is covered in the documentary.

[darkmenace]

I don't think so. I think it was one or the other (he started drinking again after "Zipper Catches Skin").

So you're saying he stopped his cocaine habit and started drinking again after Zipper. This would mean he worked on Dada under the influence of alcohol but not cocaine. This is interesting because musically speaking the pace of Dada is very different from the three previous albums, to say nothing of the subject matter.

[A_MichaelUK]

From darkmenace:
"So you're saying he stopped his cocaine habit and started drinking again after Zipper."

Yes - at least, that's what he's said.

>This would mean he worked on Dada under the influence of alcohol but not cocaine.

Yes - at least, that's what he's said. I think Dick Wagner may have alluded to this as well.

[mr.barlow]

If I remember it correctly, Alice nearly died during the production of Zipper. The bottom fell out during the making of that album. The cocaine use stopped with his near death experience while recording Zipper.

By all accounts he was in a very poor state both physically and mentally after this incident and for the most part did not want to do Dada. Shep thought it would be best to keep him working and sent Dick Wagner to talk to Alice to coax him into doing the Dada album. Also, I think he made Alice a financial incentive to do the album which Wagner mentions in his book. Wagner was able to talk Alice into going up to Toronto to join Ezrin and to write and record Dada.

Wagner states that once ALice got into the project he gave it his all, but he also mentions that Alice was drinking and in a very bad state of mind.

Warner Bros did not expect an album and everyone knew going in that even if it was made it was going to get zero support as by this time Warner's had enough of Alice--especially after the behind-the scenes events of Zipper. Knowing this Ezrin, Wagner and Alice set out to make an album that THEY wanted to make--free of any commercial pressures. We can all be thankful that they did as Alice made the best album of his career and in my opinion one of the best albums ever made.

I always thought that Dada was very influential in Alice finally finding his way back to sobriety. It was like a very public therapy session. It starts with him talking to a psychiatrist so possibly this was part of the actual theme. It was on this album that Alice very publicly confessed and confronted his personal demons. The gunshot at the end was the final shot in that portion of his career and life.

I think it was very shortly after the recording of Dada that Alice finally but down the bottle for good. "Pass The Gun Around" is a testament of someone coming to terms with the depths of their addiction and how it ruined their life. Alice finally accepted it--and then made choice to get sober for good.