Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by recoop » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:02 am

Just going back to idea of Alice in character or otherwise- from my point of view I have accepted that Alice's taste can be somewhat diverse-biggest shock for me was Lace and W-so I just miss the tracks out I dont like-easier when Cds and subsequent media arrived- With Alice being Alice's real name (since 74 ish) so to speak it would be difficult to brand when Alice Cooper is being himself (and not the character)- therefore the idea of Alice Crooner isn't such a bad idea- would I be likely to be an album of Croonology-doubt it(but would have a listen before judging) but thats just like skipping tracks. RE Eleanor Rigby- if he is happy doing a similar version to original thats Ok by me- maybe he doesnt want to be in character all the time- Alice is a bit too diverse for classification in Christian rock or probably any other category :rock:
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:22 pm

From SkipTown:
"I checked on this site (discography), allmusic, and wikipedia on the album, "Last Temptation". I see nothing mentioned about that album and Christianity."

You could always try listening to it, especially "Cleansed By Fire".

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Shoesalesman » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:19 pm

darkmenace wrote:This might be splitting hairs but I don't consider TLT an "in your face" Christian album.
I've always considered The Last Temptation to be more of a Morality album than a Christian one. I suppose those two descriptions may walk hand in hand, depending on your point of view. This also goes for songs like Salvation and stuff on Brutal Planet; perhaps more of a focus inward than above. Again, could be the same thing, but doesn't have to be.

Kind of unfortunate when folks (not everybody, mind you) dismiss Alice's attempt at 'going deep' as he's just doing another God song.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by darkmenace » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:19 pm

Shoesalesman wrote:
I've always considered The Last Temptation to be more of a Morality album than a Christian one. I suppose those two descriptions may walk hand in hand, depending on your point of view. This also goes for songs like Salvation and stuff on Brutal Planet; perhaps more of a focus inward than above. Again, could be the same thing, but doesn't have to be.
I'll have to agree here. Regardless of Alice's inner thoughts he wrote TLT as a fantasy story with a moral element and toned down the overtly Christian aspect unless you look for it. When I suggest TLT to my friends that aren't religious I have never thought to say, "But it's a Christian album, you might not like it."

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Swinger » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:29 pm

mr.barlow wrote:
darkmenace wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:The Last Temptation is an in your face Christian themed album
This might be splitting hairs but I don't consider TLT an "in your face" Christian album. To me that's putting it too strongly. I like how it deals with religious themes but they don't overpower the album. If they did I'd the first to be turned off by it.
Alice didn't even try to thinly disguise the Christian theme in TLT. It's pretty obvious. What do think the song "It's Me" is about?
You do realise that the lyrics in "It's Me" is clearly about a girl? There's a honey and several babes and babys in the lyrics as well as: "You broke my heart to pieces, babe" and "My arms are still wide open girl to catch you when you fall". While it's clearly influenced by Alice christians beliefs, just like a lot of Alice songs, it's still a love song.

Interestingly enough I remember reading Neil Gaiman commenting that he originaly thought the song that would become "It's Me" should have been the last song on the album and sung from the point of the view of the Showman. That would indeed have been a different take on the song.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Babysquid » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:05 am

Swinger wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:
Alice didn't even try to thinly disguise the Christian theme in TLT. It's pretty obvious. What do think the song "It's Me" is about?
You do realise that the lyrics in "It's Me" is clearly about a girl? There's a honey and several babes and babys in the lyrics as well as: "You broke my heart to pieces, babe" and "My arms are still wide open girl to catch you when you fall". While it's clearly influenced by Alice christians beliefs, just like a lot of Alice songs, it's still a love song.

Interestingly enough I remember reading Neil Gaiman commenting that he originaly thought the song that would become "It's Me" should have been the last song on the album and sung from the point of the view of the Showman. That would indeed have been a different take on the song.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Babysquid » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:18 am

But I can also see the "Girl" as a metaphor for people in general.
Back on topic I agree with all those who think Elenor Rigby is a missed opportunity.

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:28 pm

>Kind of unfortunate when folks (not everybody, mind you) dismiss Alice's attempt at 'going deep' as he's just doing another God song.

Yes, as if he's the only artist to have ever done that. I wonder if David Bowie fans object to "Word On A Wing" for example.

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Si » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:55 pm

Shoesalesman wrote:
darkmenace wrote:This might be splitting hairs but I don't consider TLT an "in your face" Christian album.
I've always considered The Last Temptation to be more of a Morality album than a Christian one. I suppose those two descriptions may walk hand in hand, depending on your point of view.
Alice from Access magazine:
Coop is concerned that Last Temptation be received as more than just a parable. "I think you can listen to it as a rock album," he says. "If you go a little deeper you get the theology."

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Jumping Jack » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:46 pm

This does little to excite me about a covers CD or a covers tour.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by evil syd » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:36 am

First of all, I disagree with most, I love Coop's version of "Because". Most of the complaints that I have been reading is that Coop is not in character with Eleanor Rigby. Well, he was in character in Because and that is also getting flack. Anyway, I agree with some, I think Eleanor would of been a perfect vehicle for him to be in character. When a musician's pays tribute to an artist, they perform it with their own style. That's why tributes are popular because the audience wants to hear their favorite's artist's take on the subject. If played exactly like the original, it makes no point and the original outshines the cover.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:17 pm

From darkmenace:
"When I suggest TLT to my friends that aren't religious I have never thought to say, "But it's a Christian album, you might not like it.""

Although that may be true, there is still "Cleansed By Fire".

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by mr.barlow » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:54 pm

The Last Temptation is a story about a lost person looking for something or someone to believe in. In this quest he comes find The Showman which is Satan and ends with Steven realizing Satan's true intentions and instead turns to Christ.

The lyrics has several direct references to "The Holy Bible" In "Nothing's Free" the lyric "30 pieces of silver and a deal is a deal" is a reference to Judas betraying Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Also in the song is reference to "Judgement Day" and the line "When the trumpet sounds and His light is all around and the saints all raise from the graves in the ground" is a direct reference to the Book Of Revelation and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

"Lost In America" "I wanna learn to play Stairway to Heaven--cause Heaven's where you are"--another reference to God.

"You're My Temptation" speaks for itself. Steven being confronted by a temptation (a woman) he knows was sent by Satan.

It's from this point that Steven gets wise to The Showman's (Satan) deceptions and it climaxes with "Cleansed By Fire" which is an in-your-face rejection of Satan and Evil and the acceptance of Christ.

The lyrics are very clear in their language and anybody with even the most basic knowledge of Christianity or The Bible can instantly see that this was an album with strong religious overtones and intent.

It is a morality play--a Christian morality play. It is also a great rock album.

I don't understand why some fans have a problem with Alice's Christian faith. It's like they don't even want to acknowledge it and don't ever want to talk about it. It's absurd. To understand the artist you have to understand the person and Alice's lyrics after his becoming a devout Christian were influenced by his beliefs.

In my opinion TLT is Alice's story. He LIVED the life of fame, money, success, booze, drugs and you name it. He had it all and nearly lost it all. He was deceived by addiction of both booze and drugs and it nearly killed him. He confronted it head on and I'm sure his Christian faith had a lot to do with his being able to turn around both his life and career. I think the TLT may be a very special album for Alice as it was basically his coming out as an unabashed Christian.

At any rate--it is what it is. All of the Christian references I mentioned in the album can be easily verified. Also, if one chooses not to view it as a Christian message that is fine, however, it doesn't change the fact that it is.

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by MrD Returns » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:04 pm

Just listened to the clip. I rather like it. Been reading some of the posts too. I think there are a lot of "maybe's" here.
Maybe that's the way the producers wanted him to do it.
Maybe that's the way it turned out best after several options.
Maybe Alice felt that the song deserved a similar rendering to the original.
Maybe Alice thought the original was so good that anything else would be an insult.
Maybe Alice wanted to show a vocal side that most folks don't get to hear.
Maybe he showed up, sang the song, got his check and went home.
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by recoop » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Mr D those are very good maybes and I like Mr Barlows religious deconstruction of TLT

Consciously or otherwise Alice Cooper songs have had religious references way back to LITD at least- I'm beginning to wonder whether when he was beating up Santa on The BDB Xmas tour(MOL really) was he really attacking satan (ok but santa is an anagram)...

Being serious for a second I think he may have recovered his health and had a hit with Trash before he re engaged with religion again-can't recall but have a feeling have read it was early 90s that he re engaged- anyway all good
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by grim facts » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:40 pm

scotty wrote:McCartney's stance used to be that he was delighted to hear other people's takes on his material. but what could have really been done with this song? ... about the only deviation I've ever heard this song get is when paul does an acoustic version live,and it really changes little.

Try this on for size:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iptr7i7sFkM

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by jacknifejohnny » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:12 am

Love that version, really like Alice's as well, think it's a cool video
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:29 am

For me, it's interesting that Alice does "Eleanor Rigby" because I've always thought that the one section in "Former Lee Warmer" is a bit reminiscent of "Rigby". It is when Alice sings, "Former Lee Warmer pulls up the covers to hide in his wrinkled bed. No dreams go in, no dreams go out of the hole in his wrinkled head".

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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by recoop » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:58 am

Enjoyed that Zoot version in parts- the screaming guitar at times sounded like guitars on Killer to me- looked up date-that version of Eleanor R released around 1970 so must have been something in the guitar air (or air guitar) around that time- Still like Alice's version as well
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Re: Audio Snippet Of Alice's "Eleanor Rigby"

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:49 pm

From mr.barlow:
"Lost In America" "I wanna learn to play Stairway to Heaven--cause Heaven's where you are"--another reference to God.

Actually, he's referring to a girl, but I understand the point you're making.

>It is a morality play

The same can be said for almost every Alice Cooper tour since 1971 or so.

>I don't understand why some fans have a problem with Alice's Christian faith.

Exactly. It isn't like any of this is new, as songs such as "Fields Of Regret", "Hallowed By My Name", "Second Coming", and others indicate.

>It's like they don't even want to acknowledge it and don't ever want to talk about it. It's absurd.

I wonder if Prince, U2, Yusuf Islam, and many others have to go through this kind of thing because of their beliefs as well.

>To understand the artist you have to understand the person and Alice's lyrics after his becoming a devout Christian were influenced by his beliefs.

Also before that.

>In my opinion TLT is Alice's story. He LIVED the life of fame, money, success, booze, drugs and you name it. He had it all and nearly lost it all.

That is possible but I think it was a comment on American society at that time mixed in with the story of Faust, as well. Everything else you wrote was an accurate explanation.

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