"Alice wouldn't do that, he would do this."

MrD Returns · Post by **MrD Returns** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:
It has to be those chickens.

Agreed. Especially when at the same time KISS were tearing the world a new one with kickass rock ,leather, fire , bombs and blood. And there's Alice with his dancing chickens. Unforgivable.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:47 pm

>From MrD Returns:
And there's Alice with his dancing chickens. Unforgivable.

I probably wouldn't have minded if the music had been better.

darkmenace · Post by **darkmenace** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:23 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From darkmenace:
He overacted being drunk more often before he he went solo even though he was still drinking and perhaps more heavily.

How do you know?

This is my view from watching his performances. For example in the BDB show he is clearly acting disoriented and drunk at the end of Elected and then a lot during Eighteen. By contrast in WTMN he may well be drunk but he doesn't show any alcohol or act like he's drinking nor do the same things. It is my view that he wanted to downplay the drunk aspect of his on-stage persona in his solo career.

>In WTMN and Silver Screen there are fewer of those instances when he would stumble around and act like he was drunk like he did on the "In Concert" show when he was singing "I'm Eighteen"

Do you really think that? Have you seen the 1977 tour footage? Since you're singling out that one song, take another look at "I'm Eighteen" from the "Welcome To My Nightmare" film as well.

I'll have to do that.

> Later when he went solo he seemed more interested in making the show look scripted which is consistent with what he was saying that he was an entertainer and it was showbiz.

He was still pretty drunk until 1977 though. Of course the earlier tours were more improvised compared to what came later and this allowed him to carry on drinking the way he did which kept his performance loose, but don't fool yourself into thinking that just because the other shows were more choreographed, the alcohol wasn't fuelling his stage performances on the solo tours and that it wasn't also reflected in his performances. He didn't have to "stumble around" for it to be noticed that he was still impaired.

I am in total agreement that he was drinking a lot in all these eras but perhaps it's that the earlier tours were less improvised that allowed him time to just, well, act drunk!

darkmenace · Post by **darkmenace** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:24 pm

Haha, sorry about my last post. My replies are embedded in the quote section and also included at the very end.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:28 am

From darkmenace:
I am in total agreement that he was drinking a lot in all these eras but perhaps it's that the earlier tours were less improvised that allowed him time to just, well, act drunk!

Yes, I think that was what I said.

darkmenace · Post by **darkmenace** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:26 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From darkmenace:
I am in total agreement that he was drinking a lot in all these eras but perhaps it's that the earlier tours were less improvised that allowed him time to just, well, act drunk!

Yes, I think that was what I said.

Getting back to my original point, that persona was very effective and if it was improvising that enabled it then improvising worked better for Alice when he drank. I still believe that he tried to move away from the drunken characterization (drunk or not) as a solo artist.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:01 am

From darkmenace:
I still believe that he tried to move away from the drunken characterization (drunk or not) as a solo artist.

I agree but that wasn't what you originally said. My point was that he wasn't always necessarily feigning how drunk he was. Admittedly, it might be a subtle difference.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:17 pm

been listening yesterday to Zipper and Dada
when at the time I heard them , that was not the music I expected from the Alice I had in mind, then. ( the Killer-School's out- alice)
now, if I separate that image from the music, it's a whole other story. Even Dyslexia from Dada sounds "acceptable" now as a light, amusing tune...
In the same way "my" Alice should not be dancing with chickens, and I was more than glad to see hem getting back to the "old" image
but the music is something different now, broader in a way
only my two pence...

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:20 pm

I think there is a tendency for us all to treat our favourite performers as sort of dolls that we mentally put in a sort of position-thing is the person underneath the character like Alice can be affected by issues such as alcoholism which in turn affects the way the real person plays the part of the character- so if one is partaking heavily of alcohol or some other drug then the portrayal of the character will be different- so maybe we expect the character to stay the same but the actor as such may have no such wish and might unconsciously take the character in all sorts of directions even appearing with Dancing Chickens or in full make up with Nicholas Parsons (both bad moves in my view)..but as with Alice the character can be changed back to an earlier version..e.g the horror character...Alice is the concept and is a moveable feast..this post isn't a reply to you Patrick but I like your comment re separating the image from the music..it can make some songs more acceptable.

mr.barlow · Post by **mr.barlow** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:30 pm

recoop wrote:I think there is a tendency for us all to treat our favourite performers as sort of dolls that we mentally put in a sort of position-thing is the person underneath the character like Alice can be affected by issues such as alcoholism which in turn affects the way the real person plays the part of the character- so if one is partaking heavily of alcohol or some other drug then the portrayal of the character will be different- so maybe we expect the character to stay the same but the actor as such may have no such wish and might unconsciously take the character in all sorts of directions even appearing with Dancing Chickens or in full make up with Nicholas Parsons (both bad moves in my view)..but as with Alice the character can be changed back to an earlier version..e.g the horror character...Alice is the concept and is a moveable feast..this post isn't a reply to you Patrick but I like your comment re separating the image from the music..it can make some songs more acceptable.

A great post! The success of Alice has always been his ability to change and adapt to the times. Sometimes he succeeded and others he didn't--but at least he never got stale.

Those early 1980s albums are some of Alice's best. They are some of the most original stuff he ever released and a lot of it has to do with the fact that he got away from the classic "horror" Alice and he let himself explore new directions. Dada is the best album is by far the masterpiece of his career. The character during Special Forces was the most disturbing looking ever (my favorite look).

I think a lot of fans can never accept any change at all. They want the same thing over and over again and won't give themselves a chance to experience new styles, sounds, visuals. They look at a song like "Dyslexia" with disdain because it's not "hard" enough for them. They want Alice to always sing about nightmares, death, and hair metal nonsense. They fail to realize that they are shortchanging themselves by not opening their minds to anything other than hard rock, heavy metal or classic rock.

Alice has always been a very diverse performer--I wish that some of his fans could only accept that diversity as it's what made Alice great though the years.

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