1972

[SkipTown]

Remarkable and Wept.....I am an amateur at putting together a website. Never done it before. I am 63 years old and was not raised on a computer. I am doing the best I can and am learning as I go. I am glad pitkin likes what I have struggled to put together, to this point. My brother-in-law works on web designs and could create a much nicer site than what I've done...BUT I WANTED TO LEARN FOR MYSELF! I am not praising my work, nor comparing it to anyone's. It is amateurish - and I accept that for now.

I hope that knocking what I have done makes you two buttclowns feel a lot better about yourself. Maybe you two should try to learn something that is out of your comfort zone. Hopefully you receive the same kind of response when you do.

[TodayMueller]

OK, it's time for me to give my 5 cents.

I think both sites are great.
This one is clearly much more professionally put together, but it's the contents that is most important to me.
Skip's site offers more interesting content for me as I think the ACG was way better than Alice solo at any time, and Glen was my favourite band member.
Also, I hope Skip's site will be free of censorship and allow people to post what they want and how they want to express themselves.

I will keep following both sites.

[mr.barlow]

Remarkable and Wept.....I am an amateur at putting together a website. Never done it before. I am 63 years old and was not raised on a computer. I am doing the best I can and am learning as I go. I am glad pitkin likes what I have struggled to put together, to this point. My brother-in-law works on web designs and could create a much nicer site than what I've done...BUT I WANTED TO LEARN FOR MYSELF! I am not praising my work, nor comparing it to anyone's. It is amateurish - and I accept that for now.

I hope that knocking what I have done makes you two buttclowns feel a lot better about yourself. Maybe you two should try to learn something that is out of your comfort zone. Hopefully you receive the same kind of response when you do.

As far as the Glen Buxton website is concerned it's not that bad--it has great content. I've seen much worse.

The problem is that your attitude has turned many people away from it. It's beyond me why you would go to an Alice Cooper website to try and get people to your website by insulting, belittling and complaining about Alice Cooper.

You take pride in "poking the bears" and "corporate" yet when your provocations are met with rebuttal you then cry foul and play victim. You love being sarcastic yet when are met with sarcasm in return you take it as a personal insult and an insult to a dead person.

Also, how come you can't understand that everything you write on this forum is there for everyone to see. When you play victim or cry that you are being singled out for scrutiny by "corporate" entities it's easy for anyone to go back and see that it wsa YOU who started it with your provocations. You make yourself look either unhinged at best or a total idiot at worst.

I know that you are a relative of Glen's so I can understand how some of the criticisms about him and his career may bite at you. The problem is that most of those criticisms are the truth. I think it's great that you started a website dedicated to GB and that you want to highlight the positive aspects of his life and career, but it's not fair to constantly blame Alice, Shep and "the corporation" for GB's shortcomings. Also, it's been 40 years since the original group broke-up and you feel that Alice owes them a great debt for his being able to have a successful solo career for nearly 40 years. I would argue that if Alice did not keep playing those songs for the last 40 years that they would have faded away into history and the ACB would be just a 1970s trivia question.

Remember--Alice was just ONE member of the band. The band was incredibly popular and successful at the time of the break-up. Granted that Alice was the "face" of the band and overshadowed the other members --YET--each of the other members had made a name for themselves and should have been able to cash it in for at the least a brief successful run after the break-up. They all were very talented and it's a shame they weren't able to have more successful mainstream careers. But to blame Alice for this is ridiculous. Now in the case of GB--it's no secret that it was his personal demons that were his worst enemy. His career was not really affected by the actual break-up as his contributions were extremely limited after 1972. This is according to everyone involved. How can Alice, Shep or anyone for the matter be to blame for his personal choices? Why do you feel that Alice owes him such a great debt? The argument can be made that he owes the rest of the guys even for than that as they at least contributed to the end yet I never hear any of those guys bitching and complaining--at least not publicly.

I think you are doing a great tribute to Glen and his family with the website. I also think you are doing a great diservice with your "us against them" attitude.

[Si]

Can we put an end to the name calling please.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
If you cant understand my first point I can't explain it to you.

Well, you wrote the other side is "something a lot more presentable and visual." I don't understand how you can say that when as I've said, both are basically just lists, interspersed with images, sharing much of the same content and style. Again, if the other site is more to your taste, that's fine, but that doesn't mean this site is "less visual" when the contents are so similar.

> Yes I am being honest why would you even question that?

You seemed a bit keen to keep telling SkipTown how much you liked his site and as we know, nowadays, you never seem to like anything.

>There were many fanzines before and around the time of yours where the owners had the same equipment as you and were much more visually better looking. Nice try.

I already said I didn't have any skill in that area at that time - that doesn't mean I'm "not a very visual person", though.

> Your fanzine did stop when you got involved didn't it?

It was actually afterwards but tha doesn't mean the two were connected.

>I think there was one more issue.

Yes.

> Is that not factual?

Yes but again, the two facts are not connected. You still haven't told me why you are assuming that they are.

>I did say sadly which is praising it.

That was noticed.

>I don't believe I said it stopped because of your involvement and that was your goal all along.

Yes you did or at least, you implied it. You wrote: "which sadly stopped once you got involved with Alice and his entourage." For what may now be the third time, or so, those two facts are not connected. If you're saying that isn't the reason, why would you mention it?

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
I would argue that if Alice did not keep playing those songs for the last 40 years that they would have faded away into history and the ACB would be just a 1970s trivia question.

You forgot to mention all the performance royalties that are earned by him and paid to all the song - writers in the band, as well.

>Now in the case of GB--it's no secret that it was his personal demons that were his worst enemy. His career was not really affected by the actual break-up as his contributions were extremely limited after 1972.

You forgot to mention that his situation was one of the reasons the band disintegrated. That isn't a criticism of him, but since there seems to be an obsession around here with the 'truth', then that should be stated.

[recoop]

I am an admirer of all members of Alice Cooper, as was. Building on Mr Barlow's point that Alice was just one member of the band, it does seem that Alice continues to take a lot of stick for leaving GB behind and the original band behind. However his other band mates didn't continue with GB in the group with the Billion Dollar Babies/ Battle Axe project. As has been said there will be numerous reasons including health why GB was not included. I will be pleased to see any info on GB or other AC members, even if their view runs contrary to Alice (e.g. I was quick to buy MB's book many years ago). At the end of the day everyone has a right to move on and that's what Alice has done-it of course doesn't change the fact that GB was an original and innovative guitarist with an image probably just as wild as anyone. The more positive tribute sites that exist the better.

[Si]

I am an admirer of all members of Alice Cooper, as was. Building on Mr Barlow's point that Alice was just one member of the band, it does seem that Alice continues to take a lot of stick for leaving GB behind and the original band behind. However his other band mates didn't continue with GB in the group with the Billion Dollar Babies/ Battle Axe project. As has been said there will be numerous reasons including health why GB was not included.

My understand from interviews with DD and Neal is that he was asked, but declined.

[A_MichaelUK]

From recoop:
I will be pleased to see any info on GB or other AC members, even if their view runs contrary to Alice

Each of them has done many interviews over the years all of which are available online and can be found easily.

[recoop]

Thanks Andy, I am hoping that I have read all interviews to date(maybe not)-as you say pretty much allavailable online and found easily-just saying that for example if some new stuff came out say in DD's book that runs contrary to Alice's view or recollection I am always happy to read it with an open mind- which is not to say I would believe any of their recollections 100%. I think most if not all regular contributors on this site have a similar attitude. I have used the info on this site a lot and I personally don't see the site as pro Alice solo or ignoring original members etc-it's just that there has been 40 years of Alice solo which is vastly greater than the Group years. And Si, thanks for info re invite for GB to join BDB-cannot recall whether I knew this.

[SkipTown]

http://vimeo.com/90683644

Kids: "I always like to start my day with a big helping of 'CRAP'." Yes, CRAP contains all the healthy vitamins and minerals that we need to get through those early morning hours. Each spoonful of CRAP is loaded with BS, Egomania, and Lies...to help build a strong moral fiber in your body. So, if you're like me kids....start off each day with a double bowl full of entertainment and laughs. Eat CRAP! "

[While Heaven Wept]

Each spoonful of CRAP is loaded with BS, Egomania, and Lies

Well at-least you admit it.

[A_MichaelUK]

From SkipTown:
Kids: "I always like to start my day with a big helping of 'CRAP'."

This proves that you didn't read my reply to you sent earlier in this thread, or that you didn't understand it.

Besides, I don't think you were present at the encounter between Shep and Lester Chambers, so on that basis, you tell us why that story isn't as true as the story about Cindy is. Why can't both stories be true? Also, this is more evidence that you are really starting to lose it because I am almost certain that I have told you many times both publicly and privately, that we made sure Cindy was interviewed for the "Old School" book where she told her story and she is also on the DVD of "Super Duper Alice Cooper" telling her story, so on that basis, tell us why both stories can't be true.

[SkipTown]

Maybe I was there....I don't remember.

Maybe both were true? Joe Greenberg has stated his opinion to me. He WAS there.

[A_MichaelUK]

From SkipTown:
Maybe I was there....I don't remember.

Your smiley is noted but we can probably safely assume you were not there when Shep and Lester had their conversation.

>Maybe both were true? Joe Greenberg has stated his opinion to me.

He has to me as well.

>He WAS there.

I am not denying that. He was indeed present when Cindy introduced herself and he is one of the great, unsung heroes of the Alice Cooper story, but that wasn't what I asked.

[mr.barlow]

I think that Skip cannot or does not want to understand that Alice and Shep are in SHOW BUSINESS. Shep and Alice ripped a page right out the the playbook of the great P.T. Barnum and used it to succeed. Anyone who knows even the bare minimum about P.T. Barnum knows it was his excessive use of hyperbole and showmanship to sell an act. The same is true of Alice and Shep---this is what led them to shock the world in the early 1970s and which got the band noticed in the first place. It sure wasn't the music on Pretties For You and Easy Action--it was the press they got--the larger than life, hyperbole filled press releases generated by Shep.

All of the complainers about the hyperbole being used had no problem about the Ouiji board story, the chicken story and you name it back when it was leading the band to success but now they complain that it was just a bunch of myths. The fact that Alice continued on with this with great success as a solo artists really seems to be a thorn in the side of a few people.

I'm sure that Skip knows that nearly all of the great stories about rock stars--especially those of his generation--are composites of half-truths and loads of hyperbole and promotion. ALL of them are loaded with b.s.--some are outright fiction. This is why they are called "legendary". It's show business---it's a show!

At any rate--whether it was Cindy Smith, Jimi Hendrix, Buddha, Larry Fine, Lester Chambers, Shirley Temple or Josef Stalin who introduced the band to Shep--it doesn't matter. The fact is that the story is evolving to have more dramatic effect and staying power. Those involved with the Alice Cooper Band past or present know the game--they know how it's played. Why are they surprised when they feel slighted by their being excluded in the place of show biz hyperbole? The same show biz hyperbole that led to them being able to share in the success in the first place.

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
All of the complainers about the hyperbole being used had no problem about the Ouiji board story,

Exactly and I think I have made that same reference in a previous thread. Neal Smith tells that anecdote in "Super Duper Alice Cooper" but I don't see SkipTown complaining about that. Other than that, your post is a far more eloquent summary of my earlier post so maybe some people around here will finally be able to understand.

[Rhapsody of Fire]

Let's take Hunter's thoughts one step farther, and let me really get the violins going.

It appears that a healthy sized group here find me obnoxious, boring, stupid, etc, etc. OK - let's pinpoint my flaws and mistakes. What have I done to push your buttons? Have I said something in particular that was wrong and/or offensive? Is it my snotty attitude? My rapier wit? Let's put it on the table and see what you've got.

Post cancelled.

[SkipTown]

I think that Skip cannot or does not want to understand that Alice and Shep are in SHOW BUSINESS. Shep and Alice ripped a page right out the the playbook of the great P.T. Barnum and used it to succeed. Anyone who knows even the bare minimum about P.T. Barnum knows it was his excessive use of hyperbole and showmanship to sell an act. The same is true of Alice and Shep---this is what led them to shock the world in the early 1970s and which got the band noticed in the first place. It sure wasn't the music on Pretties For You and Easy Action--it was the press they got--the larger than life, hyperbole filled press releases generated by Shep.

All of the complainers about the hyperbole being used had no problem about the Ouiji board story, the chicken story and you name it back when it was leading the band to success but now they complain that it was just a bunch of myths. The fact that Alice continued on with this with great success as a solo artists really seems to be a thorn in the side of a few people.

I'm sure that Skip knows that nearly all of the great stories about rock stars--especially those of his generation--are composites of half-truths and loads of hyperbole and promotion. ALL of them are loaded with b.s.--some are outright fiction. This is why they are called "legendary". It's show business---it's a show!

At any rate--whether it was Cindy Smith, Jimi Hendrix, Buddha, Larry Fine, Lester Chambers, Shirley Temple or Josef Stalin who introduced the band to Shep--it doesn't matter. The fact is that the story is evolving to have more dramatic effect and staying power. Those involved with the Alice Cooper Band past or present know the game--they know how it's played. Why are they surprised when they feel slighted by their being excluded in the place of show biz hyperbole? The same show biz hyperbole that led to them being able to share in the success in the first place.

I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO THIS.........

I think that Skip cannot or does not want to understand that Alice and Shep are in SHOW BUSINESS.

>>Geez! Really. I thought they were in Real Estate? (Not much of an opening line!) Mr. Barlow – you are not talking to one of the other stumble-bums that might inhabit this place. I am neither stupid nor naive.

Shep and Alice ripped a page right out the playbook of the great P.T. Barnum and used it to succeed. Anyone who knows even the bare minimum about P.T. Barnum knows it was his excessive use of hyperbole and showmanship to sell an act.

>>"There's a sucker born every minute.” “Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump.” Yeah, yeah, yeah….so what? I guess con-artists have been around for years. Barnum was also a blatant and published anti-feminist and an animal abuser. Your point is Shep = PT Barnum?

The same is true of Alice and Shep---this is what led them to shock the world in the early 1970s and which got the band noticed in the first place. It sure wasn't the music on Pretties For You and Easy Action--it was the press they got--the larger than life, hyperbole filled press releases generated by Shep.

>>No question…Shep was a genius at building up and tearing down and doing what was best for him. Can’t argue that point. (And I’m sure your statement is worth a free lunch in an Hawaiian eatery.)

All of the complainers about the hyperbole being used had no problem about the Ouiji board story, the chicken story and you name it back when it was leading the band to success but now they complain that it was just a bunch of myths. The fact that Alice continued on with this with great success as a solo artists really seems to be a thorn in the side of a few people.

>> Now THERE is a MYTH. Anyone who does not see Alice and Shep for 'true geniuses' are put in a certain category to be shunned and ridiculed….by those “in the know”. Personally I stay awake nights worrying about this ‘thorn in my side’. "The complainers"??? Lmao

I'm sure that Skip knows that nearly all of the great stories about rock stars--especially those of his generation--are composites of half-truths and loads of hyperbole and promotion. ALL of them are loaded with b.s.--some are outright fiction. This is why they are called "legendary". It's show business---it's a show!

>>Again I am stunned! I never knew that!!!! I will rethink my entire life now.

At any rate--whether it was Cindy Smith, Jimi Hendrix, Buddha, Larry Fine, Lester Chambers, Shirley Temple or Josef Stalin who introduced the band to Shep--it doesn't matter.

>>It DOES matter if you are curious about the truth. And that applies to any subject. It does seem to matter less to those ‘running with the myths’, and those who feel compelled to (for some unknown reason) protect those myths….and/or the myth creators.

The fact is that the story is evolving to have more dramatic effect and staying power. Those involved with the Alice Cooper Band past or present know the game--they know how it's played. Why are they surprised when they feel slighted by their being excluded in the place of show biz hyperbole? The same show biz hyperbole that led to them being able to share in the success in the first place.

>>I know how a internal combustion engine works…however, myself, and a lot of others, still like to take them apart and figure why things happen the way they do.

>>Speaking of hyperbole…I highlighted some of them in this post! “Follow the shoe! AND…”Follow the gourd!”

Anyhow - Mr. Barlow you seem to have a prolific talent at throwing lots of words, dramatic phrases, as well as crescendos and spins at a topic. I get the feeling that you may do this for a living. I also have a hunch that you would be equally adept at taking the other side of this topic - if it was to your advantage.

[Robbie]

Skiptown asked: "Have I said something in particular that was wrong and/ or offensive?"
The answer to your question can be found in the guidelines for the use of the forum. These state: "..make sure you aren't attacking members of the board or simply being rude."

So far you have referred to the "stick up mr. barlows a$$", and called other posters "minions", "little clubhouse lawyers", "stumblebums", "underlings", sycophants" and "buttclowns."

Asking a question when the answer is so patently obvious is either confirmation that you are indeed the dullard some of your posts suggest or you are as deficient in ICT skills as you admit, because seemingly you are unable to navigate this site sufficiently enough to find the rules.