The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

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The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Steven Lee Cooper » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:08 pm

Has anyone from you heard them ?


What do they sound like ? Like Alice's then latest releases, or like what was about to be made with Kane Roberts ?

Or do they sound like Aerosmith for the stuff with Joe Perry, or like Hanoi Rocks for the stuff made with Andy Mac Coy ?


I've always been curious about this....
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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:53 pm

>Has anyone from you heard them ?

I have heard the recordings with Joe Perry but not with Andy McCoy (I am not convinced any actually exist).

>What do they sound like ?

I don't remember.

>Like Alice's then latest releases, or like what was about to be made with Kane Roberts ?

They were pretty basic recordings and not much like anything that would be considered ready to be released.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:46 am

I believe he has commented on these songs in the past. It is very hard to believe he cant remember what they sound like. He just doesn't want to share. Odd that a super fan has little memory of hearing some very rare Alice Cooper songs that maybe a handful of people have heard.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Toronto Bob » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:49 am

Difficult to be certain. While there certainly is a hoarder mentality goin' on, he's also been known to tell the occasional nose stretcher in trying to give the impression he's in the know. Odds are 50-50 on this one.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:03 am

>I believe he has commented on these songs in the past.

Truly idiotic. Show me where I commented on the McCoy material.

> It is very hard to believe he cant remember what they sound like.

On this day three years ago, what did you have for breakfast?

>He just doesn't want to share.

Which? The information or the recordings?

>Odd that a super fan has little memory of hearing some very rare Alice Cooper songs that maybe a handful of people have heard.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't remember what "they sound like".

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:08 am

>Difficult to be certain.

A good try but still not as idiotic as the post from pitkin88 - try harder.

>While there certainly is a hoarder mentality goin' on,

What does that even mean?

>he's also been known to tell the occasional nose stretcher in trying to give the impression he's in the know.

Really? Do you have any examples? Where you there when Brian Nelson and I used to spend hours going through various unreleased recordings? Were you there when the box - set was being put together or when material was being prepared for the documentary? I was wrong - your post WAS more idiotic than the post from pitkin88 and that's a big achievement.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by pitkin88 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:44 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>I believe he has commented on these songs in the past.

Truly idiotic. Show me where I commented on the McCoy material.

> It is very hard to believe he cant remember what they sound like.

On this day three years ago, what did you have for breakfast?

>He just doesn't want to share.

Which? The information or the recordings?

>Odd that a super fan has little memory of hearing some very rare Alice Cooper songs that maybe a handful of people have heard.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't remember what "they sound like".


Likening super rare Alice Cooper recordings to breakfast. Now that is beyond idiotic.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:49 pm

>Likening super rare Alice Cooper recordings to breakfast. Now that is beyond idiotic.

Answer the question. Also, let me spell it out for you so that hopefully, even you will understand - I haven't heard those recordings for years and other than not being particularly impressed, I don't remember any of the kind of details that Steven Lee Cooper was asking for.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Steven Lee Cooper » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:12 pm

I swear on my Love it to death signed copy that I didn't intent to start any war.... :blush:
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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by mr.barlow » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:28 am

From what I've been told over the years by a few people who have heard a lot of unreleased Alice demos and songs is that most of them went unreleased for a reason--usually that they were not that good. "Look At You Over There Ripping The Sawdust From My Teddy Bear" is a good example of this.

Also, if the Joe Perry or Andy McCoy collaborations were fruitful I'm sure they would have produced some quality material. Sometimes no matter how talented people are it just doesn't work.

I remember reading something when The Beatles Antholgies were being released and about John Lennon's thoughts on outtakes, unreleased material etc. The article was about how Lennon would have felt outraged and exploited by the release of the alternate takes as he always felt that when they put a song on an album that it be the best version of the song--the perfection of what they wanted at the time. The very best--anything else was inferior and not worthy of release--it didn't hold up to the bands high standards. I think this also applies to Alice and most likely every other band.

I think that some decent songs are recorded and held back to be used as B-sides for singles and special releases but these songs were recorded with the intention of being released. It's much different with demos, outtakes, alternate takes, mixes, and inferior songs.

I could easily see how Andy can't vividly recall the songs he heard. If they were medicore what would there be to remember? Maybe they were so awful he is being polite in not commenting on them. This would easily explain why they never saw the light of day and faded away after making demos.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:54 am

Just saw that Alice, Joe Perry, & Johnny Depp were recording with Paul McCartney. Hope it gets released. p.s.- why can't some people on here just chill out. Leave Andy alone, he can't even make a reply sometimes without being attacked. Seriously, grow up. Enjoy the site for what it's intent is instead of lashing out at other's opinions.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by mestreech » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 am

According to an Aerosmithfan there is an acetate of those recordings.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by pitkin88 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:34 am

mr.barlow wrote:From what I've been told over the years by a few people who have heard a lot of unreleased Alice demos and songs is that most of them went unreleased for a reason--usually that they were not that good. "Look At You Over There Ripping The Sawdust From My Teddy Bear" is a good example of this.

Also, if the Joe Perry or Andy McCoy collaborations were fruitful I'm sure they would have produced some quality material. Sometimes no matter how talented people are it just doesn't work.

I remember reading something when The Beatles Antholgies were being released and about John Lennon's thoughts on outtakes, unreleased material etc. The article was about how Lennon would have felt outraged and exploited by the release of the alternate takes as he always felt that when they put a song on an album that it be the best version of the song--the perfection of what they wanted at the time. The very best--anything else was inferior and not worthy of release--it didn't hold up to the bands high standards. I think this also applies to Alice and most likely every other band.

I think that some decent songs are recorded and held back to be used as B-sides for singles and special releases but these songs were recorded with the intention of being released. It's much different with demos, outtakes, alternate takes, mixes, and inferior songs.

I could easily see how Andy can't vividly recall the songs he heard. If they were medicore what would there be to remember? Maybe they were so awful he is being polite in not commenting on them. This would easily explain why they never saw the light of day and faded away after making demos.

Re Lennon and the outrage. Who would really know if he would have been pissed off or not? He died in 1980 way before bonus tracks and Anthology's became popular. I tend to think he would be fine with a lot of it as he was often very nostalgic and he collected bootlegs by the score.

I agree on a lot of outtakes being awful. Look at You had a great title and was a squelchy keyboard snooze fest. Very disappointing. However, there are fans that love dreck like If 4th Street Could Talk. A lot of fans just want to hear everything. Ultimately it is up to the artist what comes out though it often seems like Alice has no idea or maybe doesn't care what is released.

I do sometimes wonder how much Andy cares about the actual music these days. Maybe it is like Bob says and it's a hoarder mentality who knows. He has had access to a wealth of information but can't remember. Was the song/s fast, slow, a ballad. Where they hard rock, metal in The Constrictor mode? Nothing. No memory of 'em. There seems to be a lack of a good curator for the music. Look at the last Hoffman fiasco where he claimed he had the master tapes to Billion Dollar Babies when it was proven that he didn't. Anyway here are the lyrics to one Joe and Alice song that might jog his memory. It was memorable enough for someone ( Renfield? Andy? ) to type out and submit here.:

We Have Problems (Alice Cooper, Joe Perry) - Unreleased Track from 1983

We got cops thats always breaking down our doors
They pin us to the wall and on the floors
If alarms go off in any local stores

We got problems, problems, problems

We got a TV preacher swears that we're the beast
'cause our music is offensive to the priest
And condems is to eternal hell at least

Oh we got problems...
Oh we got problems...

We got aggregation - agitation and 45's
So I got a feeling we'll survive

We hang around in parking lots and bars
That's where we dance and crank up our guitars
And dress up like a bunch of stolen cars
We're sticky, We're sweaty cause we're hot
We run the streets all night until we're caught
But tomorrow night we're back like a shot

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:03 am

From metreetch:
According to an Aerosmithfan there is an acetate of those recordings.

That does seem unlikely as they were very basic. It was 1984, so I don't know why they would do that, as by that time almost everyone was recording this kind of thing onto cassette or reel - to - reel tape(especially as these were made in a domestic setting). Let us know if you obtain any further information.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 am

Fron pitkin88:
I do sometimes wonder how much Andy cares about the actual music these days.

Why would you do that? Is it because I don't get generally involved in threads that involve personal taste? I have already explained why that is.

>Maybe it is like Bob says and it's a hoarder mentality who knows.

Neither you nor Toronto Bob do - tjat's for certain.

> He has had access to a wealth of information but can't remember.

You can't even remember who wrote what in threads!

> Was the song/s fast, slow, a ballad. Where they hard rock, metal in The Constrictor mode?

I DO NOT REMEMBER. I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE RECORDINGS RIGHT NOW AND IT IS NOT MY JOB TO GO AND FIND THEM AND REPORT ON THEM FOR YOUR BENEFIT. THERE ARE DOZENS OF THESE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU THINK I WOULD REMEMBER ESPECIALLY AS MOST OF THEM HAVE RARELY BEEN LISTENED TO. I also happen to know that at least two peopel here have heard them as well but they haven't come up with any information either. Perhaps you would like to have a go at them as well since you're being all brave.

>Nothing. No memory of 'em. There seems to be a lack of a good curator for the music.

How you can POSSIBLY make the connection between one and the other is astonishing. You REALLY are giving me a BIG incentive to go back and listen to them, I must say.

>Look at the last Hoffman fiasco where he claimed he had the master tapes to Billion Dollar Babies when it was proven that he didn't.

That has NOTHING to do with this situation. Those recordings are owned by Warner Brothers and also as I think explained to you in a thread at the time, you seem to get confused when you see phrases like "master tapes" because you seem to have either forgotten, or didn't quite understand, what that issue or dispute was involving that project. The Perry recordings are different because those would be owned by either whoever paid for them (as Alice was without a label at the time) or jointly owned with whichever label Perry was with.

> Anyway here are the lyrics to one Joe and Alice song that might jog his memory. It was memorable enough for someone ( Renfield? Andy? ) to type out and submit here.:

It wasn't me - good try though.

mr.barlow

Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by mr.barlow » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:22 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:From what I've been told over the years by a few people who have heard a lot of unreleased Alice demos and songs is that most of them went unreleased for a reason--usually that they were not that good. "Look At You Over There Ripping The Sawdust From My Teddy Bear" is a good example of this.

Also, if the Joe Perry or Andy McCoy collaborations were fruitful I'm sure they would have produced some quality material. Sometimes no matter how talented people are it just doesn't work.

I remember reading something when The Beatles Antholgies were being released and about John Lennon's thoughts on outtakes, unreleased material etc. The article was about how Lennon would have felt outraged and exploited by the release of the alternate takes as he always felt that when they put a song on an album that it be the best version of the song--the perfection of what they wanted at the time. The very best--anything else was inferior and not worthy of release--it didn't hold up to the bands high standards. I think this also applies to Alice and most likely every other band.

I think that some decent songs are recorded and held back to be used as B-sides for singles and special releases but these songs were recorded with the intention of being released. It's much different with demos, outtakes, alternate takes, mixes, and inferior songs.

I could easily see how Andy can't vividly recall the songs he heard. If they were medicore what would there be to remember? Maybe they were so awful he is being polite in not commenting on them. This would easily explain why they never saw the light of day and faded away after making demos.

Re Lennon and the outrage. Who would really know if he would have been pissed off or not? He died in 1980 way before bonus tracks and Anthology's became popular. I tend to think he would be fine with a lot of it as he was often very nostalgic and he collected bootlegs by the score.

I agree on a lot of outtakes being awful. Look at You had a great title and was a squelchy keyboard snooze fest. Very disappointing. However, there are fans that love dreck like If 4th Street Could Talk. A lot of fans just want to hear everything. Ultimately it is up to the artist what comes out though it often seems like Alice has no idea or maybe doesn't care what is released.

I do sometimes wonder how much Andy cares about the actual music these days. Maybe it is like Bob says and it's a hoarder mentality who knows. He has had access to a wealth of information but can't remember. Was the song/s fast, slow, a ballad. Where they hard rock, metal in The Constrictor mode? Nothing. No memory of 'em. There seems to be a lack of a good curator for the music. Look at the last Hoffman fiasco where he claimed he had the master tapes to Billion Dollar Babies when it was proven that he didn't. Anyway here are the lyrics to one Joe and Alice song that might jog his memory. It was memorable enough for someone ( Renfield? Andy? ) to type out and submit here.:

We Have Problems (Alice Cooper, Joe Perry) - Unreleased Track from 1983

We got cops thats always breaking down our doors
They pin us to the wall and on the floors
If alarms go off in any local stores

We got problems, problems, problems

We got a TV preacher swears that we're the beast
'cause our music is offensive to the priest
And condems is to eternal hell at least

Oh we got problems...
Oh we got problems...

We got aggregation - agitation and 45's
So I got a feeling we'll survive

We hang around in parking lots and bars
That's where we dance and crank up our guitars
And dress up like a bunch of stolen cars
We're sticky, We're sweaty cause we're hot
We run the streets all night until we're caught
But tomorrow night we're back like a shot
With lyrics like that we should all thank God it was never released--sounds like it could be a hair-metal Kiss song! I think Andy heard this song with these lyrics and chose NOT to remember it--a self-imposed amnesia. I know I wish I never read them!

At least "Thrill My Gorilla" is awful but funny in a thrid grade way.

Andy---please if you do have any memories of those songs and if they have lyrics like the above--please--please don't ever post them here--or anywhere! You'll be doing all of us a big favor!

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by While Heaven Wept » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:58 am

Andy, just ignore them. The posts by TB and Pitkin have become so ludicrous that they're obviously just bitching for the sake of it. Their jealousy is so transparent that it's laughable.

In regards to these unreleased 'demos'. I'm pretty sure that if there was anything of real quality we would have heard it by now. I have no urge to listen to half-baked ideas or poorly jammed songs.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Si » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:06 am

A_MichaelUK wrote: I also happen to know that at least two people here have heard them as well but they haven't come up with any information either.
Maybe that is because they aren't supposed to have heard them and don't want to break a confidence.

For what it's worth I HAVE heard a few unreleased songs, a long time ago, and I have to admit I don`t remember anything much about them either. In a couple of cases what I heard is quite simply unreleasable in any situation, but in most others I honestly don't remember anything about tempo or style. But then the same is true of many songs (but other artists) I've heard just once or twice and entire albums I own. I find if something is good (to my ear) I will remember it as that, but none of what I have heard seems to have fallen into that category. In some cases they are, as Andy has suggested, just a couple of guys sitting around a cassette recorder putting down very basic ideas, probably with just rough words to get a melody line down for reference later.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:57 am

>Maybe that is because they aren't supposed to have heard them and don't want to break a confidence.

Exactly but accoring to pitkin88 and Toronto Bob, that's evidence of hoarding.

>For what it's worth I HAVE heard a few unreleased songs, a long time ago, and I have to admit I don`t remember anything much about them either.

What a shock.

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Re: The Joe Perry & the Andy McCoy mid-80's demos

Post by Babysquid » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:25 pm

For a long time I actually thought that the "Freak Out" album was Alice in the early '80's with Joe Perry on drugs.
I'd read an article where he was talking about getting cleaned up and he mentioned that he was working with Joe Perry and they needed to sort themselves out. I read this around the time of Trash.
Anyway I bought the Freak out cassette and there were, no dates, composer or line up credits, just a cheap picture of a very unhealthy looking Alice on the cover. It was one of the first few albums I'd bought of his and I didn't know all his history or even his discography (no internet back then) but I knew he had his lost period in the early '80's. Listening to the Album on my Walkman my young teenage mind could only assume that this was the product of people out of their minds on drugs. The 2 non Alice tracks didn't help, I didn't realise it wasn't him and thought he was trying to do Shakin Stevens! Oh and before the guitar break in Ain't That Just Like a Woman I was sure "Alice" said "Let's go Perry".
Anyway I learnt the truth a few months later when I bought Easy Action but I've always wondered what became of the collaboration .

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