Lace & Whiskey and Maurice Escargot

[Lucius Morthem]

I Really think that all these critics against KISS are kind of irrational... I Mean their lyrics are sexist? I Mean It's rock n roll in the 70s all the lyrics were about sex!!
That Alice is different it's the cause of his mmm "downfall"

Lace and Whiskey and the subsequent albums are great but no rock in there.

KISS May have been sexiest (duh!) and whatever you want, but they did what they had to just as an uncountable amount of bands. They just did it better xD

[patrick]

due to this thread, been listening to the album again..
Least thing one can say it is a very atypical Alice album..
question for the other old-timers :I wonder : was there any fuss in America about Alice changing (or trying to change) his image ? (over here we hardly heard anything at all at that time about Alice)

[Daggers & Contracts]

due to this thread, been listening to the album again..
Least thing one can say it is a very atypical Alice album..
question for the other old-timers :I wonder : was there any fuss in America about Alice changing (or trying to change) his image ? (over here we hardly heard anything at all at that time about Alice)

From what I can recall he was "Off The Radar" here too. You And Me got some airplay but overall very little compared to Only Women Bleed.

[ThePainAddict]

I believe You & Me actually charted higher than Only Women. Although Only Women quickly gained greater currency through concert performances and plays on classic rock station.

[mestreech]

As far I can remember Lace and Whiskey did not get any attention in the Netherlands. Alice was almost forgotten in our country.

[A_MichaelUK]

>From what I can recall he was "Off The Radar" here too. You And Me got some airplay but overall very little compared to Only Women Bleed.

I am not sure that is exactly what patrick was referring to. The album and the changes that came with it got a lot of media attention. I have lost count of the number of articles and interviews in the press for that album as well as radio interviews from that territory and Alice was on at least two high - profile television shows as well.

[recoop]

An aside to this- I reckon what harmed Alice's following in UK from 77 to Special Forces tour was the lack of touring in the UK-even Lace and Whiskey would have been forgiven imo if he had toured anywhere around 77-79 in UK...I know when he did turn up on the SF tour in Glasgow early 82 the crowd were ready to lap it up irrespective of some past dodgy releases (every artist has them)- Its Hot Tonight, Road Rats and Lace and Whiskey can/could be quite heavy live tracks so there is some rock material on there- A UK tour would have helped ACGTH, L and W and the excellent(imo) FTI in terms of sales and media attention..by the way the first album I remember getting very low UK coverage was FTF..I didnt even know it had been released

[concolz]

I Really think that all these critics against KISS are kind of irrational... I Mean their lyrics are sexist? I Mean It's rock n roll in the 70s all the lyrics were about sex!!
That Alice is different it's the cause of his mmm "downfall"

Well, ever since the first bluesman picked up a guitar, sex and sexism have pervaded 'pop' music lyrics - although one doesn't automatically have to lead to the other. Yet not ALL 70's rock lyrics went down that route. For instance, gloom and doom-meisters Black Sabbath, plus space cadet Bowie, managed to come up with alternative topics, and they still rocked! As for AC, well, death, resurrection and really bad dreams made a refreshing change lyrically, whilst Kiss just trotted out the 'same old, same old' without an ounce of style, wit or panache.

question for the other old-timers :I wonder : was there any fuss in America about Alice changing (or trying to change) his image ? (over here we hardly heard anything at all at that time about Alice)

From what I can recall he was "Off The Radar" here too. You And Me got some airplay but overall very little compared to Only Women Bleed.

The 'L&W' album did reasonably well chart-wise in several territories - US#42, Canada#27, UK#33 and, best of the lot, Australia#3. 'You And Me' got next to no airplay in the UK and didn't chart, but it MUST have had plenty in other places since chart stats are:- US#9, Canada#4 and Australia#2. (In fact, solo 70's Alice had a purple patch in Australia - first three albums went top five, whilst 'FTI' got to #12.)

UK music mags definitely had AC articles around this period, and there were certainly plenty in the US - check the ST's Press Archive - plus, er, that 'Muppet Show'. So, Alice wasn't 'off the radar' by any means in '77, although things were becoming more hit and miss for him.

[MrD Returns]

Lot of KISS bashing going on and that's fine. When I was 16-17 years old they WERE the 'hottest band in the land". Had really surpassed Alice as far as fan base went. The early KISS albums although poorly produced were actually pretty good rock albums. Short catchy R&R songs. Some songs like "100,000 years" and "She" could actually be called heavy metal.
When Alive came out , I wore out the vinyl copy and a couple of 8-tracks as well.
Saw the Destroyer tour ( had already seen them several times) with some friends and was blown away, later saw the KOTSS tour with Alice and his chickens with the same friends and for the most part was embarrassed for him. High lights sure, but nothing like I had come to love and expect from him. He wasn't dangerous anymore and KISS was.

Flash forward a few years.

I think in 1980 or so. Went to see KISS and half the audience were 8 and 9 year olds. WTF! Well they weren't dangerous any more either. A few months later saw Alice on his FTF tour and again...it just wasn't right. I understand that he was trying to go in different directions but it just wasn't on the path I was on.
So pretty soon after that I get married, have kids, buy a house and really didn't pay much attention to any music for a long time.
Now, when I go back and listen to some of my old KISS music , it doesn't hold up as well as some of my favorites from Alice. I haven't listened to L&W for many years now but I will say I like GTH better now than I did then.
However when that live version of Rock and Roll All Night comes on the radio I still turn it all the way up.

[Lucius Morthem]

In deed not everyone must follow the sex stereotype rock n roll system BUT Black Sabbath were not all doom and gloom. They were generally peace and love and sex included as well!

[recoop]

Did Alice create the character Maurice Escargot or is say it an old maybe jokey name-just that I noticed Gary Oldman was credited as Maurice Escargot I believe in a 1990 film, Henry and June- is there an Alice link or?

Also on the sickthings discography notes it talks about Alice as Vanna White in KOTSS-presume this is not the Wheel of fortune host as she was 20 I think in 1977 unless known to AC-so who is Vanna White- yep I'm a fan since 71 and still don't know it all-answers please..

[Si]

Did Alice create the character Maurice Escargot or is say it an old maybe jokey name-just that I noticed Gary Oldman was credited as Maurice Escargot I believe in a 1990 film, Henry and June- is there an Alice link or?

Interesting. I never new that. I can`t think it is just a coincidence surely. I can't find any otehr famous people by that name in a quick search.

Also on the sickthings discography notes it talks about Alice as Vanna White in KOTSS-presume this is not the Wheel of fortune host as she was 20 I think in 1977 unless known to AC-so who is Vanna White- yep I'm a fan since 71 and still don't know it all-answers please..

She was a model before she was on Wheel Of Fortune apparently, and Miss Georgia in 1978 (youtube vid), so it's possible Alice would have been aware of her for something that was in the news around the time the album was released? I can`t find much detail about her early years though.

[mr.barlow]

Did Alice create the character Maurice Escargot or is say it an old maybe jokey name-just that I noticed Gary Oldman was credited as Maurice Escargot I believe in a 1990 film, Henry and June- is there an Alice link or?

Also on the sickthings discography notes it talks about Alice as Vanna White in KOTSS-presume this is not the Wheel of fortune host as she was 20 I think in 1977 unless known to AC-so who is Vanna White- yep I'm a fan since 71 and still don't know it all-answers please..

If I remember it correctly Maurice Escargot was a name given to Alice by the great Peter Sellers. The name would be original to Alice Cooper.

It would be interesting to know if Vanna White lifted her stage name from Alice.

[Si]

Did Alice create the character Maurice Escargot or is say it an old maybe jokey name-just that I noticed Gary Oldman was credited as Maurice Escargot I believe in a 1990 film, Henry and June- is there an Alice link or?

Also on the sickthings discography notes it talks about Alice as Vanna White in KOTSS-presume this is not the Wheel of fortune host as she was 20 I think in 1977 unless known to AC-so who is Vanna White- yep I'm a fan since 71 and still don't know it all-answers please..

If I remember it correctly Maurice Escargot was a name given to Alice by the great Peter Sellers. The name would be original to Alice Cooper.

It would be interesting to know if Vanna White lifted her stage name from Alice.

From what I can tell it's her real name. She took her stepfathers surname when she was young, which was White. Her birth name was Vanna Marie Rosich.

[mr.barlow]

Did Alice create the character Maurice Escargot or is say it an old maybe jokey name-just that I noticed Gary Oldman was credited as Maurice Escargot I believe in a 1990 film, Henry and June- is there an Alice link or?

Also on the sickthings discography notes it talks about Alice as Vanna White in KOTSS-presume this is not the Wheel of fortune host as she was 20 I think in 1977 unless known to AC-so who is Vanna White- yep I'm a fan since 71 and still don't know it all-answers please..

If I remember it correctly Maurice Escargot was a name given to Alice by the great Peter Sellers. The name would be original to Alice Cooper.

It would be interesting to know if Vanna White lifted her stage name from Alice.

From what I can tell it's her real name. She took her stepfathers surname when she was young, which was White. Her birth name was Vanna Marie Rosich.

I think it's pretty funny that he would goof on a name of someone who was a unheard of outside of the beauty pageant circuit at the time and that person would go on to be a major celebrity. I'm guessing he must have read her name in the newspaper or on tv when he was on tour or in Georgia. The Miss Georgia pageant is far from national news.

This is a great question for someone to ask Alice--if he even remembers it. It would be a great story for him to add to his collection.

[Si]

I think it's pretty funny that he would goof on a name of someone who was a unheard of outside of the beauty pageant circuit at the time and that person would go on to be a major celebrity. I'm guessing he must have read her name in the newspaper or on tv when he was on tour or in Georgia. The Miss Georgia pageant is far from national news.

This is a great question for someone to ask Alice--if he even remembers it. It would be a great story for him to add to his collection.

I agree it's an odd one. I always assumed it was someone who was famous in the US but not elsewhere (which it is I suppose) but time difference between the album release date and her becoming famous does suggest it maybe isn`t the same person.
Could he have just made up the name? Seems unlikely as "Vanna" isn`t a common name (or is it?). Maybe just an in-joke.

Maybe Kyler could ask if he reads this?

[A_MichaelUK]

From mr.barlow:
I think it's pretty funny that he would goof on a name of someone who was a unheard of outside of the beauty pageant circuit

Exactly - he was joking. He used to throw in the names of obscure film or television personalities fairly regularly into his interviews.

[Si]

From mr.barlow:
I think it's pretty funny that he would goof on a name of someone who was a unheard of outside of the beauty pageant circuit

Exactly - he was joking. He used to throw in the names of obscure film or television personalities fairly regularly into his interviews.

True, but this seems beyond obscure, basically someone who at the time was almost completely unknown. Would be interesting to know if it WAS this Vanna White or someone else/made up. Maybe the "joke" came first and the name was just one in a paper that was handy. Bored minds what to know

[A_MichaelUK]

>basically someone who at the time was almost completely unknown.

Well, yes. The idea being that you would have to be a real popular culture trivia addict to recognise the reference.

[recoop]

I haven't watched Henry and June(film I referred to) but I think it was probably based in 1930s and from one or two stills I have seen there are male characters in hats..Fedoras maybe...could be that G Oldman was channeling Maurice Escargot from the inside cover(I think) of the Lace and W album....maybe the answer will turn up..if so Alice should get him on the covers album right away (only kidding)