Why was Trash such a big hit over the superior Hey Stoopid?

[Towelie]

I think most fans would agree that Hey Stoopid is an infinitely better album than it's corporate rock predecessor and yet it achieved only a small fraction of the formers commercial success. Why do you think this was? Was it not given the same push from the label compared to Trash?

[A_MichaelUK]

>yet it achieved only a small fraction of the formers commercial success.

Well, I don't know about "small" but it did about half as well, I think.

>Why do you think this was?

It is almost impossible to say - it would be like wondering why Milli Vanilli sold so many albums. However, "Hey Stoopid" didn't have anything that was the equivalent of "Poison" on it.

>Was it not given the same push from the label compared to Trash?

I think it was.

[Towelie]

I personally think songs like Hey Stoopid, Snakebite, Might As Well Be On Mars and Love's A Loaded Gun are as catchy and radio-friendly as Poison was. I guess Trash was just released at exactly the right time.

[KeithGale]

I had a record shop at the time and it was a Chart Return shop, so my sales figure were used to help calculate the chart position, as a consequence the sales reps from the all the record companies targeted shops like mine to promote their current artists.
The initial push on Hey Stoopid the single and the album was considerable, but not as big as the push on Poison, remember Poison was incredibly important to the artist and the record company, both needed a hit to justify the work that had gone into it, as we know it exceeded expectations.
The record company were hopeful that Trash's successful run would rub off on Hey Stoopid, it didn't quite manage that, but Hey Stoopid was well marketed and a strong seller.

[concolz]

One thing that sometimes gets overlooked - from an American perspective anyway, - is that although chart positions slumped there post-'Trash' that wasn't necessarily the case in other countries. 'Hey Stoopid' and 'The Last Temptation' albums both made the UK top ten, whilst the five associated singles all made the top forty here. Chart positions held up equally well in Northern Europe.

[pitkin88]

No Desmond Child.

[scotty]

not completely true. "dangerous tonight" and "might as well be on mars" were co written with child.

[cooperrocks]

Timing was part of it. The musical landscape was beginning to change. MTV played "Poison" quite a bit and I recall "House of Fire" getting a decent amount of airplay too. Though "Love's a Loaded Gun" is one of my favorite Alice songs, it didn't get much airplay on MTV (when MTV still mattered) and neither did the other singles. Ironically, "Feed My Frankenstein" became a lot more popular after Wayne's World, but I don't think the casual Alice fan or non-fan who liked the song after seeing Wayne's World went back and bought the "Hey Stoopid" album.

Another thing that didn't help was the failed Operation Rock n Roll tour. Had it been a success, it may have pushed the album a little bit more. There was some decent promotion for "Hey Stoopid" but it just never seemed to get the same push from the record label that "Trash" did.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Timing was part of it. The musical landscape was beginning to change.

I was going to mention that as well, but I'm not sure how big a difference that made as the true impact of that took a while to be noticeable. It didn't seem to affect Van Halen or Aerosmith for example.

>Though "Love's a Loaded Gun" is one of my favorite Alice songs, it didn't get much airplay on MTV (when MTV still mattered) and neither did the other singles.

I think that was a bigger reason.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I think Andy nailed it, there was nothing equivalent to "Poison" on the album.

Also, "House of Fire" and "Bed of Nails" are stronger singles than anything on HS, IMO.

For whatever reason, in my personal experience "Hey Stoopid" is somewhat disliked by casual fans / rock listeners. The general consensus always seems to be that it's silly or stupid (no pun intended).

[mr.barlow]

I think Andy nailed it, there was nothing equivalent to "Poison" on the album.

Also, "House of Fire" and "Bed of Nails" are stronger singles than anything on HS, IMO.

For whatever reason, in my personal experience "Hey Stoopid" is somewhat disliked by casual fans / rock listeners. The general consensus always seems to be that it's silly or stupid (no pun intended).

The album itself is not too bad--much better than Trash. It has also held up better with the passing of time. I think the main mistake was the title and marketing the album around the anti-drug theme that the song conveyed. To me the title suggests something that would be offered by a boy-band/kiddie pop act rather than a music legend.

I always thought either "Might As Well Be On Mars" or "Wind-Up Toy" would have made better album titles and both could have led to incredible artwork potential. BUT..neither of those songs were singles material and I think they wanted to tie the album title with the single for maximum exposure and consumer ease. I was always suprised that the album "Trash" was not titled "Poison" for this reason.

The duet with Ozzy also played heavy into the marketing of the single, however it was not that effective as the song was rather weak for such a great pairing. I think the plan was to keep Alice in the mainstream arena while slightly adding some material that would open the door again for the "classic" character--especially ending it with "Wind Up Toy". The anti-drug theme was a "safe" option for mainstream consumption and would generate media interest. I don't think it hurt sales but I don't think it had the impact of effect they expected.

Feed My Frankenstein which is one of the best songs on the album got a life of it's own with Wayne's World but at the time was not really a big deal.

"Might As Well Be On Mars" is one of the best songs Alice has ever recorded. If I remember it right this was a song Dick Wagner had already had written (my memory could be wrong). The song is classic Dick Wagner. Desmond Child is given credit in the songwriting but again--with one listen you can tell instantly that it's a Dick Wagner composition. I'm guessing Child helped/changed with the arrangement and wanted credit. Songwriting credit means money. Also, I'm guessing that anything Child is credited on were songs that may have been written or submitted for "Trash".

All in all Hey Stoopid is a pretty good album. I'm not a big fan of the single or portions of the album but overall it was a pretty good release. Plus, it was the end of Alice Bon Jovi. Hair metal Alice was a creation of that era and has to be put into context. We all owe a great deal to Hair Metal Alice as it brought him back to the very top. It's because of this period he was able to continue to this day. His comeback was nothing short of a miracle and a result of increbile perseverance, business savy and a relentless drive to succeed. It solidified him as a music legend.

[evil syd]

The answer is simple.......bigger promotion.The title track itself was promoted to the hilt. A commercial mega hit! I personally think the album is half and half. I hate "Constrictor" the most from that era. I love "Hey Stoopid" and "Raise Your Fist" (with the exception of a few songs......
"Freedom" make me puke) In my opinon, his hair metal days were his weakest era.

[ThePainAddict]

I don't think it is fair to say that HS is an anti-drug song per se, it is an anti-suicidal behavior song.

[evil syd]

I don't think it is fair to say that HS is an anti-drug song per se, it is an anti-suicidal behavior song.

Coop had Ozzy sing backgrounds because of his battle with drugs.

[mr.barlow]

The answer is simple.......bigger promotion.The title track itself was promoted to the hilt. A commercial mega hit! I personally think the album is half and half. I hate "Constrictor" the most from that era. I love "Hey Stoopid" and "Raise Your Fist" (with the exception of a few songs......
"Freedom" make me puke) In my opinon, his hair metal days were his weakest era.

The single was far from "a commercial megahit" as it only rose to 78 on the US Billboard top 200. Poison was a Top 10 hit in the US. The video did get some decent exposure on MTV but that too faded and never rose to the success of Poison. I think Epic didn't promote the album as much as Trash as the material didn't lead to the chance of huge commercial singles. House Of Fire and others on Trash although they didn't rise to the chart success of Trash were still worth putting the money into promotion to try and break them--especially since "Posion" was a runaway smash.

When Hey Stoopid (the single) stalled at 78, Epic figured it wasn't worth dumping money into what they felt was material not up to the standards of huge commercial single capabilty. It's true--none of the songs on Hey Stoopid were viable for huge commerical mainstream singles.

The hair metal years--although not his best material wise--were far from his weakest. Trash was one of the biggest selling albums of his career--bigger than most of the 1970S albums and Poison was one of his highest charting singles ever. The hair metal era was not only one of the most successful eras of Alice but enabled him to continue to this day. If Alice released and album or albums that crashed and burned in 1986 it would have been over. Remember MCA took a chance with Alice and gave him modest budgets to work with. No one wanted to touch him at that time. The Nightmare Returns tour was funded by Alice and Shep--with little or no help from MCA. If he failed--that would have been it. Alice was viewed in the industry as a washed up act with substance abuse problems, and worse than dismal sales on his last few albums prior to Constrictor. It's the hair metal that saved him and gave him new life and his career back in full force. I hate Trash--I find it to be worse than awful--but I respect why it was made and am very happy that is gave Alice new life. It cemented him as a legend.

[evil syd]

I hate Trash--I find it to be worse than awful--but I respect why it was made and am very happy that is gave Alice new life. It cemented him as a legend.

I agree, but what does it also say when his weakest era musically puts him back on the charts? Well,I guess I could answer that myself, it was the era and hair metal was most popular, simple as that. There were some real inventive tracks during that era. It had it's merits and he still put on some real great shows.

[mr.barlow]

I don't think it is fair to say that HS is an anti-drug song per se, it is an anti-suicidal behavior song.

The lyrics are in-your-face anti-drugs:

"you stick a needle in your arm"
"you bite the dust you buy the farm"

"come on babe kick that stuff
"show the street it ain't so tough"

the song is a caution sign for people who are going personal problems and telling them not to turn to drugs for relief. Whether it's stress, loneliness or a broken relationship Alice is saying it's not worth turning to drugs. I always took the the line "don't put a pistol to your head" as being a metaphor for drug use. I could be wrong and it could be a straitforward anti-suicide message. Either way it's meant to tell people that taking drugs is basically a slow suicide. This is where the Ozzy pairing comes in as his song "Suicide Solution" was saying the same thing except it was about killing oneself with alcohol.


I think this song was a personal song for Alice as he battled his own fight with drugs. It wasn't public about Alice's drug problem back then but it was no big secret to those in the industry. It could be possible that this is why it was chosen as the single and album title. After the success of Trash, Alice again was very popular and had a platform to reach and speak to a lot of young people. the song enjoyed success and there was a lot of media about the anti-drug message but I don't think it had the impact that they were hoping for.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The answer is simple.......bigger promotion.The title track itself was promoted to the hilt.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that the single (“Hey Stoopid”) “was promoted to the hilt”? If you are, I don’t understand what you’re referring to in your first sentence. If you're referring to "Trash", it isn't true to say "The title track itself was promoted to the hilt." as that wasn't even a single.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Coop had Ozzy sing backgrounds because of his battle with drugs.

No. It was because he had been victimised because of the song "Suicide Solution". Suicide was a big part of the concept (you even see it in the video as well).

[A_MichaelUK]

>Well,I guess I could answer that myself, it was the era and hair metal was most popular, simple as that.

Exactly - it's what a lot of people were into at that time (and to an extent, Alice as well).