Why was Trash such a big hit over the superior Hey Stoopid?

[Babysquid]

Hi again
I think my point was the press exaggeration of the impact of these genres. If nirvana really helped put an end to the hair metal fluff what aren't they still here to argue about it with aerosmith.

[mr.barlow]

Agree with you Mr Barlow re lightweight nature of Trash but surely Alice on Johnny Carson doing Lace and W. with chicken costumes was closer to the *ultimate low point" than the Freedom on your knees video- or have you missed that one. Agree re punk by the way-in fact punk didn't sweep away very much really-loads of lightweight dross was in the charts post punk- Alice just jumped on a trend in Trash and it worked-at least he didnt do Trash 2 eh

I did see the Johhny Carson appearance and it is "interesting" but far from a low point. I find it to be very surreal and amusing. It sure was not cliched. With that being said it was NOT a wise move and did a lot to have fans turning away in droves--not neccessarly that particular appearance but the whole Lace & Whiskey fiasco. It has to be said that even though the whole thing was a miscalculated mess--it was original. I mean how many established hard rock stars dressed up like Sam Spade and performed with dancing chickens on one of the most iconic American tv show? It reaked of Salvador Dali--and I'm sure somewhere Dali was watching it and loving every minute. It's so horrible it's brilliant!

The same can't be said for Alice sliding on his knee in "Freedom". It was the most ridiculous thing that was done by every half-wit hair metal fluff boy during the reign of that putrid style. After watching every incarnation of Alice--through the ups and downs--the one thing was that he was ALWAYS original--especially with the use of the character and his performances. Even though he was riding current trends--it was still done with Alice's unique originality. That was what was different with Trash. With Trash he became just another pop rock, blow dried buffoon. But that's what people wanted st the time and Alice served them up one big steaming pile of it for their consumption! And they ate it up with a smile.

Back to Freedom-- Seeing him do that lame cliched move was very depressing. There was no need for it. And then to see him become Alice Bon Jovi was a big let down. Again--it was great to see him back on top--and we can all be thankful that it last only one album. Hey Stoopid had him turning away from it and getting back to form. Although the song "Hey Stoopid" is a huge piece of crap.

I have been quoted many times of this site about "No More Love At Your Convenience" being the worst Alice song ever. After thinking about I'm now going to go on record and say that the worst Alice Cooper song of all-time is the entire album of "Trash" as each song is equally as awful as the next. I'd much rather disco with Maurice Esgargot than to do a silly-sing-a-long Desmond Child chorus with Alice Bon Jovi.

[mr.barlow]

Hi again
I think my point was the press exaggeration of the impact of these genres. If nirvana really helped put an end to the hair metal fluff what aren't they still here to argue about it with aerosmith.

I think it has to do with the fact that Kurt Cobain blew his head off with a shotgun.

Aerosmith were a real rock band with talent before they turned to hair metal (like many others) to resurrect or sustain their careers in the 1980s. Aerosmith is not a hair metal band--they were a rock band who did hair metal.

[Babysquid]

Aerosmith were a real rock band with talent before they turned to hair metal (like many others) to resurrect or sustain their careers in the 1980s. Aerosmith is not a hair metal band--they were a rock band who did hair metal.

And continue to do so.

"Rocks" or "Music from another Dimension" take your pick.
Hey I'm not trying to upset you as your very obviously passionately into the music as I am and so are many others here.

[Babysquid]

I think it has to do with the fact that Kurt Cobain blew his head off with a shotgun.

Aerosmith were a real rock band with talent before they turned to hair metal (like many others) to resurrect or sustain their careers in the 1980s..

Regarding Kurts suicide that was very sad but his band are still very relevant. I'm always surprised how many teenagers I see wearing the same nirvana tees we wore in the early 90's.

Aerosmith still had talent but just followed (maybe reluctantly ) John Kalodonrs views of were they should they should be going. Hey they're all sitting on millions and in hope happy and we've still got all those great 70's lps.

[recoop]

Not sure if anyone was thinking Pump by Aerosmith was hair metal but I didnt see it that way= What it takes, the Other side etc had a bit of meat to them...still a bit bluesy...Trash certainly mega commercial for Alice but not sure it really harmed his image as he had already been through many style changes and ups and downs..whether one thinks the Johnny Carson show was the low of Freedom or all of Trash maybe it doesnt matter as we can agree that Alice's career of over 40 years has many ups and downs- his character/image imo transcends all of it.

[mr.barlow]

Aerosmith were a real rock band with talent before they turned to hair metal (like many others) to resurrect or sustain their careers in the 1980s. Aerosmith is not a hair metal band--they were a rock band who did hair metal.

And continue to do so.

"Rocks" or "Music from another Dimension" take your pick.
Hey I'm not trying to upset you as your very obviously passionately into the music as I am and so are many others here.

I understand that we all have different opinions and tastes but I really hated hair metal at the time and hate it even more now. We all owe a great deal to Kury Cobain and Nirvana for killing it. If you listen to nearly 100% of it now nearly 30 years later it's really easy to hear how awful it all really was. It all sounded alike--nearly every single Desmond Child songs sounds exactly like the other. All of the bands looked alike, dressed alike and sounded alike.

Think about it--Alice, Aerosmith, Ozzy all were performing lightweight material and dressing the part--BUT they still had their own ORIGINAL personas--which came through then and is one of the reasons they survived it's demise.

Never worry about upsetting me--I perpetually pissed off at something--so it's not personal.

[A_MichaelUK]

From Babysquid:
I think my point was the press exaggeration of the impact of these genres. If nirvana really helped put an end to the hair metal fluff what aren't they still here to argue about it with aerosmith.

Exactly - that's what I'm saying.

[mr.barlow]

Not sure if anyone was thinking Pump by Aerosmith was hair metal but I didnt see it that way= What it takes, the Other side etc had a bit of meat to them...still a bit bluesy...Trash certainly mega commercial for Alice but not sure it really harmed his image as he had already been through many style changes and ups and downs..whether one thinks the Johnny Carson show was the low of Freedom or all of Trash maybe it doesnt matter as we can agree that Alice's career of over 40 years has many ups and downs- his character/image imo transcends all of it.

In the case of Alice, Trash did not hurt his image--it actually opened him up to a new generation of fans. I think that was one of the goals-and they attained it. I know a lot of fans love the album--I just hate it.

The thing that bothers me about Trash and Alice Bon Jovi was it was the first time in his career where he was not original. Everytime Alice would change with the times he retained his uniqueness both in the look and the music. Maurice Escargot was a flop but it was very original. Special Forces era Alice (my favorite look) was beyond incredible. Then the 1986 comeback where he resurrected the classic character with some subtle changes was again uniquely Alice. THEN--he morphs into Alice Bon Jovi singing Bon Jovi songs. The logo for his name became a corporate block letter font suitable for selling life insurance or toothpaste. In look he looked like every other hair metal frontman. He made the same cheesy hair metal videos. The one photo that has always stuck with me was "sexy" shirtless Alice that was in some rag like Hit Parader. Really?!

The only thing that eases my mind is knowing that Alice was in on this joke. It was all business/marketing plan. It was done on-purpose. Knowing Alice's sense of humor I often wonder if the album title "Trash" was an inside joke, with Alice knowing it was all a bunch of garbage and naming it as such. At any rate--people bought it by the millions and Alice got back on top. It's funny that his worst album content wise was the one to once again make him a star. Now that's funny.

[Rhapsody of Fire]

Not sure if anyone was thinking Pump by Aerosmith was hair metal but I didnt see it that way= What it takes, the Other side etc had a bit of meat to them...still a bit bluesy...Trash certainly mega commercial for Alice but not sure it really harmed his image as he had already been through many style changes and ups and downs..whether one thinks the Johnny Carson show was the low of Freedom or all of Trash maybe it doesnt matter as we can agree that Alice's career of over 40 years has many ups and downs- his character/image imo transcends all of it.

In the case of Alice, Trash did not hurt his image--it actually opened him up to a new generation of fans. I think that was one of the goals-and they attained it. I know a lot of fans love the album--I just hate it.

The thing that bothers me about Trash and Alice Bon Jovi was it was the first time in his career where he was not original. Everytime Alice would change with the times he retained his uniqueness both in the look and the music. Maurice Escargot was a flop but it was very original. Special Forces era Alice (my favorite look) was beyond incredible. Then the 1986 comeback where he resurrected the classic character with some subtle changes was again uniquely Alice. THEN--he morphs into Alice Bon Jovi singing Bon Jovi songs. The logo for his name became a corporate block letter font suitable for selling life insurance or toothpaste. In look he looked like every other hair metal frontman. He made the same cheesy hair metal videos. The one photo that has always stuck with me was "sexy" shirtless Alice that was in some rag like Hit Parader. Really?!

The only thing that eases my mind is knowing that Alice was in on this joke. It was all business/marketing plan. It was done on-purpose. Knowing Alice's sense of humor I often wonder if the album title "Trash" was an inside joke, with Alice knowing it was all a bunch of garbage and naming it as such. At any rate--people bought it by the millions and Alice got back on top. It's funny that his worst album content wise was the one to once again make him a star. Now that's funny.

Mr. Barlow,what is interesting with Alice, is there's a lot of different styles and looks, and music sounds over the years and eras.

[ElectedPlus]

"The only thing that eases my mind is knowing that Alice was in on this joke. It was all business/marketing plan. It was done on-purpose. Knowing Alice's sense of humor I often wonder if the album title "Trash" was an inside joke, with Alice knowing it was all a bunch of garbage and naming it as such"
I've come across that point before, but I don't think it holds up ... It doesn't explain why he would choose to perform House of Fire recently, or 'Trash' during the Dragontown tour.

[dadascot]

Ok, to be simple and straight to the point! I like Trash! It's got great energy, good hooks, strong melodies, the Alice snarl and the Alice humour. I liked it when it came out and I still like it now. One mans meat etc

[recoop]

Liked the last comment dadascot re One man's meat..which is of course another man's..Poison..very droll..reckon the Poison single was a huge factor..true about the energy, even I'm your Gun with,imo, unsubtle lyrics is catchy...I like Bed of Nails video/song even now..Live Trash show was pretty good too

[TAC]

First Post!

Obviously, Poison was a surprise hit, Desmond Child or not. I've seen Alice called Alice Bon Jovi in this thread. I don't agree with that at all. Alice's albums, for the most part, seem to reflect what's going on in hard rock at the time. I liked Trash a lot when it came out. Felt a bit more accessible than Constrictor and RYFAY (which are both awesome IMO.)
Oddly, as popular as it was, Alice was only playing theaters on the US tour, as opposed to arenas for the previous two tours.

Hey Stoopid is freaking great, and has aged much better than Trash, probably due to Trash's cringeworthy lyrics.
But 1991 was a strange time for hard rock/metal. With the exception of Metallica, it seems the entire genre took a step back in popularity. Alice was great, blowng Priest off the stage on the Operation RnR tour. Unfortunately, we never got a full Alice headline tour here for Hey Stoopid.

[A_MichaelUK]

From TAC:
Alice was only playing theaters on the US tour, as opposed to arenas for the previous two tours.

An arena tour was planned for later that year (with Sam Kinison at one show) but that was cancelled. I think the European tour took place as a result of that.

[Babysquid]

Never worry about upsetting me--I perpetually pissed off at something--so it's not personal.

Thanks for that.
As for the Hair Metal thing I think as well it was the fashion of the times, and fashions change. I still like Trash over Hey Stoopid but it's probably more of a nostalgia thing. Trash was my first record, it introduced me to music.Would I have bought it today? I very much doubt it. Do I think it was Alice being Ironic? No I don't think so but I like your argument, I seem to remember reading somewhere that Trash was a very calculated record. It was designed to be a "hit" because Alice needed a hit. However I may have misremembered exactly what I read.

[darkmenace]

For what it's worth I spoke with Brian Nelson several years ago and brought up that Alice was making an inside joke or a statement calling the album "Trash" (and looking down on the album cover, almost in shame) and he said no, that wasn't the case.

The question is even if Alice felt that way would he admit it?

[TAC]

I just think it was an album that reflected the times. And it did so very well.

[concolz]

I imagine that a number of people reacted as I did: bought 'Trash', on the strength of 'Poison', but thought it sucked big time, thus - thinking 'once bitten, twice shy' - passed on 'Hey Stoopid'. I did buy the 'HS' single, but not the album until about a decade later. Even then, I was somewhat underwhelmed by it, although it's grown on me over the last few years into a 'neat little rock album'.

As for 'Trash', well, never has a record had a more apt title. Do I think Alice, as has been mooted, deliberately put out a pile of garbage - presumably so his alter ego could cackle at the dimwits who bought it? Er, I doubt it. Do I think AC sat down, with his 'advisers', and calculated what would appeal to Midwest hair-metal mall kids in their droves? Yes.

What sinks the album, for me, are four of the worst tracks - 'Talkin/Maniac/Trash/Gun' - AC ever recorded. They're so lame, even Lazarus wouldn't touch them. Strangely, even though wit and humour are almost totally absent from 'Trash', it actually is his most ironic album - mega commercial success, artistic nadir. IMO.

[patrick]

on the Trash title: I remember an interview at the time where the question was : promoting the album standing on a trash-collecting truc : how low can you go ?
and Alice said something like: well,in the beginning, they said we produced trash and were not going to last , so here it is,right in your face, the xth album..
and later in that show he sang Bed of Nails .
(thought it would be somewhere on youtube, but haven't found it yet) .