Is it worth recording new albums?

[wind_up_toy]

I've copied and pasted an interesting response from Twisted Sister guitarist JJ French, which he provided when asked whether a new record would ever be released by the band. Some of the points raised are worthy of discussion on here, especially those about album sales and song selection on the live shows:

JJF: Well there is no point recording I think that is an old school idea. Why? No one buys it. I mean no one is yet to make a case for any reason to record, I do not see any reason in the world to record. The fans who come see you do not care, they claim they care but they do not really care because if you think about it, if you take an average set list 15 to 20 songs, those songs are off the albums everybody bought. Now if you could actually tell the fans we are going to play a new song today but we are going to take this other one out to play it, what do you think they are going to vote for? If I said “Here is a new song but we are not going to play Burn In Hell”, “Here is a new song but we are not going to play Under The Blade”, “Here is a new song but we are not going to play We’re Not Gonna Take It” that would not go over too well. So the point is we do not tour, you have nothing to promote and nobody buys it and nobody listens to it, so it is contrary to any logic whatsoever that it matters. Now it only matters if you care that it matters, so if you want to write the stuff because you feel you have a need to express it then you write it and record it. Dee has not written a song in 20 years he has no need to express it and so therefore we do not do it and we do not play enough for it to matter, since we only play one show in one country every couple of years. It is not like people say “Wow man! When is the new tour coming? I saw you on the last tour”. We do not get a chance to play that often, so I just think for bands like Kiss and Judas Priest and all these bands who make all these new records that nobody buys, when I say “nobody buys” I mean in their heyday bands are selling 2 or 3 million copies now they are selling 100,000 records, alright? If you are touring it may make some sense, I just do not see the logic behind it. We are happy playing these 17 songs and we are a great live act and we do them really well. Does anybody care if AC/DC makes a new record? I mean they have made the same record for the last 30 years. AC/DC is one of my all time favourite bands, all time, they are one of the only bands I will stand up for two hours to watch, but if I see them do you think I want to hear a new record? Of course not.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Some of the points raised are worthy of discussion on here, especially those about album sales and song selection on the live shows:

A really good set of comments from someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

[wind_up_toy]

And they won me over as a fan whilst supporting Alice in 2005 with...

A greatest hits package!

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Joey Kramer of Aerosmith recently echoed the same sentiments. Their last album, from 2012, only sold 63,000 copies its first week out in the U.S. Releasing new albums is no longer profitable for most bands, and it truly is a shame for us fans not to be able to hear new music.
Technology killed the radio star and the music industry.

[Crazy Little Child]

JJF: Now it only matters if you care that it matters, so if you want to write the stuff because you feel you have a need to express it then you write it and record it. Dee has not written a song in 20 years he has no need to express it and so therefore we do not do it and we do not play enough for it to matter,

Surely he is forgetting their lovely xmas album when he says all this!

[mestreech]

So we have to expect a lot of greatest hits or golden oldies tours?
Not for me.

[Devon]

So we have to expect a lot of greatest hits or golden oldies tours?
Not for me.

Yes. For newer bands it's easier to get away with a good chunk of new material. For already established bands... not so much. There's a certain "expectation" those bands have created of concert goers.

I think a large part of J.J.'s comments resonate because of our never ending discussions about setlists, etc. However, Alice records regularly (once every two or three years these days) and has new things he likes to do album-wise so I don't think we need to worry about Alice not releasing new music, at least yet.

[mr.barlow]

This has a lot to do with not only a changing industry but also an aging fan base that is the core audience of these "classic" bands--including Alice. The fans that grew up with the bands in the 1970s-1980s now range in age from their late 30s to their 70s. They are dealing with all of the issues that come with aging including raising families, health issues, careers, etc. Most are not waiting for the new issue of Circus or Hit Parader magazine to see what Aerosmith, Twisted Sister or Alice are considering for a new album. Most do not come to this forum as we do to discuss the brilliance of Dada. Most just want to be entertained. I'm not speaking for the hardcore fans--but the general music buying public who buy albums/downloads and who go to the concerts. A lot of fans simply want to enjoy themselves and "revisit" their youth at a concert of the songs they grew up with. This is why nearly all of these bands go out on "hits--oldies" tours. They are giving the audience what they want. If Alice played W2MN in it's entirety--my guess is the tour would be a giant flop. If he cut out 3 classic hit songs to play "Wind-Up Toy", "Fresh Blood" and "Tag You're It" there would only be about 10% of the nightly audience that would love it--the rest would be scracthing their heads and leaving unsatisified, bitching about what a horrible show it was as they didn't know the songs. The first rule of show business is to "give 'em what they want". This is why Alice is able to continue to have successful tours--he knows what the majority of his audience wants to hear. As people get older they want to get back their youth--and for 90 minutes--Alice gives it back to them--one hit at a time!

[Robbie]

Good points raised in all these posts. My only ever disappointment was with "The Raise the Dead" tour. (I started a thread at the time) only because of the theatrical side of things which I thought was a little stale and a bit of a letdown (especially post WTMN 2). Andy explained at the time it was largely down to economics and the potential effect on ticket prices so that's fair enough and the covers section of the show I felt wasn't very good, although I believe it was well received by others. As a very personal opinion, I really don't mind the greatest hits package at all but I look forward to freshening up of the theatrics on tours (thinking Brutal Planet and Theatre of Death)and hope maybe to see a fresh show if Alice chooses to continue next year.

[wind_up_toy]

JJF: Now it only matters if you care that it matters, so if you want to write the stuff because you feel you have a need to express it then you write it and record it. Dee has not written a song in 20 years he has no need to express it and so therefore we do not do it and we do not play enough for it to matter,

Surely he is forgetting their lovely xmas album when he says all this!

Ah yes, a quick win covers album, Alice would never do this!




Would he?

[A_MichaelUK]

>So we have to expect a lot of greatest hits or golden oldies tours?

You can't have it both ways - if fewer people were illegally downloading albums and actually buying them then those higher sales would be an indication of familiarity and popularity and there would be more incentive to perform those songs. As the gentleman from Twisted Sister says, there is no point otherwise.

[A_MichaelUK]

>he knows what the majority of his audience

Exactly and as has been pointed out before, there's a few people around here who think that "the majority of his audience" are the same as they are which is sort of arrogant.

[scotty]

put out a good product and they will buy. not to be mean,but it's a twisted sister member stating this.Of course it's not worth it for THEM to record new material,they were washed up by the late '80's! do you think bands with albums in the top 10 think this makes any sense? in a nutshell,it depends on who you ask,but some bands move the product consistently still,and the day they don't,we will have no charts or award ceremonies.

[A_MichaelUK]

>put out a good product and they will buy.

That is a very simplistic way of looking at the issue. If not, how do you explain the rise in piracy? If there was no "good product", there would be no piracy.

> do you think bands with albums in the top 10 think this makes any sense?

Those artists would have been selling more copies if they had been released before the advent of online piracy.

>and the day they don't,we will have no charts or award ceremonies.

Well, considering the number of legal sales is lower than it was before, those "charts" are even more meaningless than ever. You can get a number one single in Britain with a tenth of what you needed to, say, twenty years ago or so.

[Toronto Bob]

I saw Rush twice on their last tour. They play 11 out 12 songs from their latest album through the course of a 3 hour show with no opening act. The venues are hockey arenas and amphitheaters in all the major markets across NA, they tour Europe as well. I would say they know what they are doing when it comes to recording albums and touring. But Rush wasn't built on hype and MTV videos, it has a dedicated audience that has been properly cultivated by the band.

But Rush has an integrity that is hard to match in the arena rock/classic rock world. The bar is high and only a few reach it.

I like and respect artists with integrity but I like entertainers as well - just not as much.

[mr.barlow]

I saw Rush twice on their last tour. They play 11 out 12 songs from their latest album through the course of a 3 hour show with no opening act. The venues are hockey arenas and amphitheaters in all the major markets across NA, they tour Europe as well. I would say they know what they are doing when it comes to recording albums and touring. But Rush wasn't built on hype and MTV videos, it has a dedicated audience that has been properly cultivated by the band.

But Rush has an integrity that is hard to match in the arena rock/classic rock world. The bar is high and only a few reach it.

I like and respect artists with integrity but I like entertainers as well - just not as much.

You're right--Rush knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to recording and touring. Rush does what works for Rush. Rush does what makes them MONEY. My question is--what does what Rush is doing in regards to recording and touring have to do with Alice Cooper? Are you trying to say--or infer--that the Rush audience/fan is exactly the same as the Alice Cooper fan? Are you saying that the Alice Cooper audience expects Alice to play a show mainly of new songs? Are you also inferring that "entertainers" lack integrity? The music of Rush and the music of Alice are two completely different worlds. One is a filled with unmatched technical playing musicianship abilities, and cerebral writing which appeals to their audience. Alice is about letting loose and having a good time. In reality--most fans who attend an Alice Cooper show are not there to marvel at the band or to stand in awe of integrity--they are there to have a good time. They paid money to be entertained. They want to hear the hits they grew up and that make them happy. They like to watch Alice cut his head off for the umpteenth time and sing "School's Out" at the end of the show. It's really that simple. it's like watching a favorite movie over and over again--you know what's coming yet you still enjoy it each and every time. Alice knows his audience and gives them what they want. Hardcore fans have to get over themselves and their own selfish wants and needs. Alice is in the twilight of his career--we are lucky he has not yet retired. He is doing what HE wants to do---let him do it--he's earned the right. Let's put it this way---if it's NOT working (and making money) then you may see him try something else--until then let him do what he wants and stop complaining.

[Crazy Little Child]

I would agree with JJ here that I'd rather see the good material in a back catalog mined rather than second rate new material taking up space. But a live performance of a greatest hits package is a bit disappointing.

I'm much happier, and i think i speak for most fans, when the more obscure stuff gets thrown in. Alice has usually kept one or two things in there. I was thrilled when "Gutter Cats Vs. The Jets" started with that great bass solo during the Trash tour. And how thrilled were we all when "Halo Of Flies" started showing up in the live sets? And how i would have loved to see the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame show feature "Black JuJu"...

I saw Concrete Blonde play the other year. They opened with "Rosalie", a new song (mellow, to boot) and then went into a cover tune (Midnight Oil's "Beds Are Burning"). What a fearless way to open a show, far removed from other retro acts (they did indeed go on to play a great set, with all of their hits and a few more obscure songs as well).

[Toronto Bob]

My question is--what does what Rush is doing in regards to recording and touring have to do with Alice Cooper? .

Well since the OP was quoting an interview with JJ French of Twisted Sister, I assumed it wasn't an Alice specific thread. And I used the Rush example as a counterpoint to what TS and other older acts do in regards to recording and touring. Just so it doesn't become accepted fact around here that if you're an act that has been around a long time, you can only play oldies if you hope to sell a lot of tickets. Rush proves this is simply not the case.

[tuneylune]

>So we have to expect a lot of greatest hits or golden oldies tours?

You can't have it both ways - if fewer people were illegally downloading albums and actually buying them then those higher sales would be an indication of familiarity and popularity and there would be more incentive to perform those songs. As the gentleman from Twisted Sister says, there is no point otherwise.

Sadly, this is the ugly truth.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm much happier, and i think i speak for most fans, when the more obscure stuff gets thrown in.

You don't, though. As has been pointed out before, the vast majority of people who buy tickets to see Alice are not the kind of hard - core followers who visit this site, for example.