Is it worth recording new albums?

[Lucius Morthem]

You all seem to love to battle Amuk!

He's right to say everything he says

I'd also love to see Alice doing things differently but in real world he can't do it they way I'd love to.

It's a complicated world (Ok, not that complicated but It doesn't work the way we want it to)

PS: Somebody said tha Twisted Sister never did a "Killer" or "School's Out" and blah blah blah. Could you PLEASE explain your arguments, I Mean. Stay Hungry is a hell of a record as you may think Killer is too. But what are YOUR thoughts on "why TS is what it is?" I Don't want to misunderstand you, so, Explain yourself.

[wind_up_toy]

The other thing about Twisted Sister is that they re-united in 2001(ish) after over 10 years apart. They made it quite clear that it was a reunion with the band playing select, high revenue earning, shows rather than them working together on a daily basis, recording new material and touring extensively like most "traditional" bands.

I think they've made no secret that the reunion was primarily for money whilst not being so important that they stopped doing the other things in their lives.

Also, the Christmas album that they produced was actually very clever as they spotted a niche in the market and exploited it for every $ they could. Dee Snider has gone on record as saying that the reunion continued well beyond 2006 (to this present day indeed) mainly because of the success of that album and the publicity that it created for them.

In many ways, they're a great example of a resourceful modern day band. I don't think their setlist has changed one bit since 2001 so they literally get together, play, then go their separate ways each time.

We should also remember that Alice considered them worthy to work with in the mid 80's during his own comeback. I think they have a lot of mutual respect for each other by the sound of it.

[Crazy Little Child]

As much as id love alice to come out and play last temptation, welcome 2 my nightmare etc in its entirety im not stupid enough to know the chances are slim to say the least, but i can dream cant i?

Well, the "classic album live tour" is a bit of a trend lately, and not just among the stadium-filling top 10 classic rock bands. The Pogues did "Rum Sodomy & The Lash" in it's entirety last year. Like Alice, not exactly a huge band, and the album could hardly be said to be a "hit", and not even their biggest album at that. So i think an artist like Alice could totally pull off a "WTMN", or which ever, live tour.

Personally, i find such enterprises artistically suspect, but it seems to be a successful business decision (plus if it was the right artist & right album i would totally go, so who am i to say it's a suspect move anyway? Probably shows more artistic integrity than doing a "greatest hits live" tour)

[mr.barlow]

As much as id love alice to come out and play last temptation, welcome 2 my nightmare etc in its entirety im not stupid enough to know the chances are slim to say the least, but i can dream cant i?

Well, the "classic album live tour" is a bit of a trend lately, and not just among the stadium-filling top 10 classic rock bands. The Pogues did "Rum Sodomy & The Lash" in it's entirety last year. Like Alice, not exactly a huge band, and the album could hardly be said to be a "hit", and not even their biggest album at that. So i think an artist like Alice could totally pull off a "WTMN", or which ever, live tour.

Personally, i find such enterprises artistically suspect, but it seems to be a successful business decision (plus if it was the right artist & right album i would totally go, so who am i to say it's a suspect move anyway? Probably shows more artistic integrity than doing a "greatest hits live" tour)

I think at this point in his career Alice's concern is not proving his artistic integrity to his fans but rather to give them a good show and entertain them. His back catalog is vast enough for those to decide if he has "artistic integrity" or not. Alice is show business--always has been. It's entertainment. Artistic---well think of all of huge bands and "artists" who lifted, borrowed and even stole his ideas and tried to pass them off as their own. Who is the real artist? The guy who created it--or the people who mimic it? That being said--your comparison to The Pogues is a bit off. The Pogues never ever had any HUGE international hits that were Top 40 hits. Any bands who have had hits as big as the one's Alice has had over the years are expected to be heard live by the mainstream fan. I'm sure if The Pogues had the mainstream appeal, the 45 years of back catalog and the number of hits that Alice has had that they would be playing those hits. All bands' fans and audience is different and they expect different things. I personally would love to hear a set of nothing but tracks from 1980-1983--but I'm a realist. All of those albums were commercial flops. They were failures and they failed to connect with a mainstream audience--for whatever reasons. Why would he give a 2014 mainstream audience songs that the mainstream audience rejected from the start? The reason he plays the hits is the audience loves them.

As far as touring WTMN he did that back in 1975. If he performed Part 2 in it's entirety--no one would go other than hardcore fans. That does not pay the bills. Playing any album in it's entirety would be a complete bore to the majority of Alice's audience. Everything in the entertainment industry is about business decisions. Business is what makes it all work. On a huge scale down to the bands selling cds on their websites. It's about making money. In order to support an organization as big as Alice you have to make money. A lot of people make their living by working for Alice Cooper. For now--greatest hits tours make money for Alice. If it stops making money than maybe we'll see something else. Also, has anyone stopped to think that maybe it's what Alice wants to do? Maybe he LIKES the songs and likes performing them? Should he have to perform songs he doesn't like to sing because fans insist on it? Maybe he's reached a comfort zone he's happy with and enjoys doing it and that's why he keeps going out on the road. Have the hardcore fans who are complaining ever considered Alice's personal opinions and preferences regarding what he wants to play?

[Robbie]

Mr Barlow wrote: The Pogues never ever had any HUGE international hits that were Top 40 hits.

"Fairy tale of New York"?!!!!!

[mr.barlow]

Mr Barlow wrote: The Pogues never ever had any HUGE international hits that were Top 40 hits.

"Fairy tale of New York"?!!!!!

That's exactly my point.

[Crazy Little Child]

Mr Barlow wrote: The Pogues never ever had any HUGE international hits that were Top 40 hits.

"Fairy tale of New York"?!!!!!

All true... but i brought up the comparison b/c while Alice has many hit singles, like the Pogues I'm not sure he has a classic hit album (I mean, *I* think there's several, but does Billboard or whoever agree?) Roger Waters may tour "Dark Side Of The Moon" as a bit of a no-brainer, it's perhaps less obvious what album Alice would pick. The Pogues picked a fan favourite, even though their current line up actually reflects the later albums, and their big hit was on the next album.

An Alice classic album show might get old curmudgeons out who haven't been to one of his shows in years (like me). Plus the general arrangement is the artist plays the album in one set, and then a second set of whatever, so still plenty of room to throw in some other hits, newer material, cover tunes etc.

It would, at the end of the day, just be another marketing angle, one that seems to be working for lots of other "classic" rockers. I just brought it up as another option to touring "the greatest hits live" in context of this discussion JJ started for us all. I didn't like most anything Alice has done between Last Temptation and W2MN, so i was less interested in going to those shows.

[A_MichaelUK]

>So i think an artist like Alice could totally pull off a "WTMN", or which ever, live tour.

This debate keeps shifting (as debates do) and it's getting irritating (although that isn't your fault). On the one hand we have people saying he should be playing more new material and on the other, we have people saying he should perform a classic album in its entirety (which, by the way, I can imagine happening). So if the latter happened, the people who want the former would complain. Either way, he can't win.

>Probably shows more artistic integrity than doing a "greatest hits live" tour)

I think people who want their favourite artists to have "artistic integrity" are insecure about their own tastes and want validation.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm not sure he has a classic hit album

REALLY?! What about "Killer", "School's Out", "Billion Dollar Babies" and "Welcome To My Nightmare"?

>(I mean, *I* think there's several, but does Billboard or whoever agree?)

Who cares what they think?

[While Heaven Wept]

I think people who want their favourite artists to have "artistic integrity" are insecure about their own tastes and want validation.

Absolutely spot on, couldn't agree more with that comment.

[Robbie]

Apologies to Mr Barlow-I stand corrected. I assumed "Fairytale of New York" was a worldwide hit because of its popularity in Britain and Ireland (perhaps understandably!!)when clearly it isn't.

[Crazy Little Child]

This debate keeps shifting (as debates do) and it's getting irritating (although that isn't your fault). On the one hand we have people saying he should be playing more new material and on the other, we have people saying he should perform a classic album in its entirety (which, by the way, I can imagine happening). So if the latter happened, the people who want the former would complain. Either way, he can't win.

Well, if he can figure out what works in this market, he wins.

At the end of the day, this isn't really a debate, just a discussion inspired by JJ French's surprisingly honest comments about the pointlessness (for TS) of new material, discussed in the context of AC's career, and actually nobody is right or wrong. We're all just showing our biases with our opinions.

I myself will admit total hypocrisy. I would have preferred obscurities or classic albums live rather than tours promoting all the albums b/t Last Tempation and W2MN. I know that many fans of Brutal Planet will disagree with me. We're neither of us wrong, just selfish.

>Probably shows more artistic integrity than doing a "greatest hits live" tour)

I think people who want their favourite artists to have "artistic integrity" are insecure about their own tastes and want validation.

You're probably right there, to an extent, but i think it's also just the difference between the more casual fan and the fanatic who wants new material to keep occupying their fandom. I would have loved to have seen Rum Sodomy & The Lash live, as it is my favourite Pogues album, but i would kill for a new album. But probably those gigs made the band more money than a new album would.

[Crazy Little Child]

>I'm not sure he has a classic hit album

REALLY?! What about "Killer", "School's Out", "Billion Dollar Babies" and "Welcome To My Nightmare"?

>(I mean, *I* think there's several, but does Billboard or whoever agree?)

Who cares what they think?

Well, not me, but somebody trying to book a profitable tour might care. I was considering what AC might choose as a "classic album live" and couldn't really think of one that would resonate with "the concert going public" other than maybe WTMN.

[Crazy Little Child]

Apologies to Mr Barlow-I stand corrected. I assumed "Fairytale of New York" was a worldwide hit because of its popularity in Britain and Ireland (perhaps understandably!!)when clearly it isn't.

I was thinking of "Fairytale" as their "School's Out", as yes it was in fact huge all over and they had one or two others and so attract a bunch of random folk punk fans (to AC's metal fans) but have a dedicated cult following like AC.

Yeah yeah, not a perfect comparison just off the top of my head...

[Si]

Just to throw something in, when Alice did the X-FM show, in which bands play a classic album from start to finish, he choose "Greatest Hits" haha
It was obvious why. All but, I think, one of the songs (TL74) were already in the show they were playing at the time, or had been in it the year before, so the band already knew them all!!

[Crazy Little Child]

Just to throw something in, when Alice did the X-FM show, in which bands play a classic album from start to finish, he choose "Greatest Hits" haha
It was obvious why. All but, I think, one of the songs (TL74) were already in the show they were playing at the time, or had been in it the year before, so the band already knew them all!!

Hey you're right, he's in the position to do a greatest hits tour AND a classic albums tour at the same time.

[mestreech]

I love if he would do a whole album at a show or new or never played songs the fact for me is that I want some different songs. He's doing a greatest hits tour for ages now.
That's my wish but i realise that will never happen.

[larryelbows]

>God forbid they do it for the love of creating an album.

Who is going to pay for that?

1) These people aren't exactly poor.

2) Technology is at a point where you can create a high quality product with a home computer.

3) Kickstarter/Gofundme/etc.

I have no illusions about the business side of things, that these people need to make a living, that they want to make money (who the hell doesn't?) However, musicians - real musicians - write music because they love writing music, not just for a paycheck.

[mr.barlow]

>God forbid they do it for the love of creating an album.

Who is going to pay for that?

1) These people aren't exactly poor.

2) Technology is at a point where you can create a high quality product with a home computer.

3) Kickstarter/Gofundme/etc.

I have no illusions about the business side of things, that these people need to make a living, that they want to make money (who the hell doesn't?) However, musicians - real musicians - write music because they love writing music, not just for a paycheck.

1} Because someone is wealthy makes it okay to invest their money in a product that will lose money?

2)A product created at home will in no way be as good as one created in a professional studio with tens of millions of dollars of equipment, seasoned engineers and a producer say like Bob Ezrin

3) Kickstarter and the like are incredible resources if an artist chooses to use them. Steve Hunter had tremendous success with a Kickstarter program and produced one of the best albums released in quite some time.

Are you saying that any musician who writes music "for a paycheck" is not a "real musician"? Most musicians I know want their career to be music. In order to do music for a living you have to make money. Musicians--especially writers--love their craft--they love what they do--and in comes naturally--it is their calling. It's what they do. It's who they are. But these artists and writers write songs with the intent of those songs becoming a success --which leads them to making money--which is a great motivator to keep writing more songs. There are quite a few people who think that a musicians "integrity" disappears the minute they become successful and wealthy. This I can never understand. I love nothing more than seeing someone succeed and make themself filthy rich. Alice and Shep are great examples of how talent, hard work, perseverance and keen business sense can pay off in a big way. The Beatles collectively are worth BILLIONS of dollars--the songs they wrote were intended to make money. The Rolling Stones collectively are worth a billion dollars--their songs are written to make money. Kiss--to make money. Ozzy--to make money. Rush--to make money. Billionaire Bowie--to make money. Led Zeppelin--to make money. Alice Cooper--to make money. Are all of these people not "real musicians"?

[A_MichaelUK]

>Well, if he can figure out what works in this market, he wins.

It hasn't worked out too badly, all things considered since 2000 or so.

>At the end of the day, this isn't really a debate, just a discussion

Are they not more or less the same thing?

>and actually nobody is right or wrong.

I sort of agree but as has been pointed out, Alice has more or less worked out what works for him and just because somebody else does things differently, doesn't mean it will be as successful.

>We're all just showing our biases with our opinions.

I think that's true of a lot of people here whereas I try not to do that. As I've explained before, telling 'the other side of the story' isn't necessarily displaying a bias.

>I myself will admit total hypocrisy. I would have preferred obscurities or classic albums live rather than tours promoting all the albums b/t Last Tempation and W2MN. I know that many fans of Brutal Planet will disagree with me. We're neither of us wrong, just selfish.

Exactly and as has been pointed out, he has to juggle all these conflicting demands.

>You're probably right there, to an extent, but i think it's also just the difference between the more casual fan and the fanatic who wants new material to keep occupying their fandom.

Writing, recording and performing "new material" doesn't really have much to do with "artistic integrity".