Is it worth recording new albums?

[evil syd]

I disagree with JJ tremendously and I feel that attitude has been like a plague in the business. I always love new material by my favorite artists and I don't mind if some songs were taken off the set for them. New albums are part of the reason why I keep cheering for an artist. The fact that he/she could still come up great tunes and see them perform them live is part of the thrill. Maybe no one cares as much about TS is because they don't try come out and give some kind of new direction and be a new voice in the music business.
You do have to stop and remember that at one time all the material was new and knocked down for some other tracks live and it's been a great tradition and hope it catches on again.

[GailsFriend]

Here is my two cents, not that anyone cares....but...let's try.


If a successful band decided to play new music in a crappy bar, with a crappy sound system. If the music was good enough....people would beg to have a quality version of it. Yes, bootlegs would run rampant but, in reality, you can't polish a bad recording....even if it was a great song.

For example: Alice Cooper decides to go into the Whisky A Go Go (a very small bar) and play 10 newly written songs, never before recorded. The crowd shows up with their cell phones and cameras and puts videos all over the internet....and bootlegs are made of the show, but, nothing is ever really produced in a studio.

Demand for a quality recording would eventually cause for its release in a proper format and I believe people would pay for it.

Especially if those 10 songs played at Whisky were re-done in the studio and given a Bob Ezrin production.

Everyone would want that right? What if it were more than just 10 songs? What if the scene was multiplied? So now we have 20 or 30 songs that people want....now DEMAND is created....

What if new songs were being performed every 6 months? More DEMAND....right?

I think people have become conveniently lazy, and have begun to expect that "they can download it"....what if there wasn't anything that sounded good enough to download? Small bars can be too loud and the acoustics so bad that even a soundboard version won't redeem it.

Okay I am done, I think. I hope I made a valid point.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Cruise ships great idea let's flock down to the nearby harbour."

On the one hand, you endorse and defend illegal downloading which deprives artists of income but on the other, you constantly denigrate the financial decisions some of these people are maybe forced to make because of the changing nature of the record business. Performers are paid to perform based on the requirements of whoever it is that is doing the hiring, whether it's a regular show, a corporate event or anything else. They are ultimately and at the most basic level, pretty much the same thing.

Yeah Capitain Birdseye called Alice and he just couldn't say no. How much are the tickets?Hope those casual fans have big pockets.

As for downloads it is what it is and you crying and harping on about it is pointless. Me caring one way or another is neither here nor there. Get over it.

[mr.barlow]

From pitkin88:
"Cruise ships great idea let's flock down to the nearby harbour."

On the one hand, you endorse and defend illegal downloading which deprives artists of income but on the other, you constantly denigrate the financial decisions some of these people are maybe forced to make because of the changing nature of the record business. Performers are paid to perform based on the requirements of whoever it is that is doing the hiring, whether it's a regular show, a corporate event or anything else. They are ultimately and at the most basic level, pretty much the same thing.

Yeah Capitain Birdseye called Alice and he just couldn't say no. How much are the tickets?Hope those casual fans have big pockets.

As for downloads it is what it is and you crying and harping on about it is pointless. Me caring one way or another is neither here nor there. Get over it.

Just a correction: It was Captain Merrill Stubing who placed the call to Alice.

[pitkin88]

Nobody is saying that no new material should be recorded, but as the earlier part of the quote states, that doesn't necessarily mean that everybody else is desperate to hear it in the way it once was. The culture that some of us lived in no longer exists. For example, the last David Bowie album which everyone went so crazy about because of the way it appeared out of nowhere, went to the top of the chart in several countries and yet has still failed to sell a million copies. Nobody cares (in the way they once might have).[/quote]

You're absolutely right. The culture we now live in isn't even remotely close to the one we grew up in. Also, as we all grow older our priorities change. The new Alice Cooper record --or Bowie record--or any record-- is not very significant to a person past 30 who is too busy raising children, paying bills and dealing with the daily rigors of life.

I think Alice is handling this phase of his career terrifically. He knows his audience is getting older and more content to relive a portion of their youth for a an hour at a live show than they are interested in a new concept album.

The cruise ship idea is brilliant. Lemmy and Motorhead just had some success with the idea. It would be great for him to do a Halloween At Sea show in the future. There's so much marketing potential in that idea that Alice could semi=retire and do that a twice a year with a Vegas show thrown in from time to time.[/quote]


Boy you are really into the age thing. New music matters not to fans of Alice and others over 30. Right on. Cruise ships great idea let's flock down to the nearby harbour.[/quote]

New music does matter to people over 30 but I don't see them clamoring for an Alice Cooper album of all new music. I don't think a large majority of the music buying public between the ages of 10-99 are waiting impatiently for Alice to do something new with "Steven". Actually--nobody outside of the hardcore fans really cares. Alice knows and understands this.

Would I like to hear an album of new music--absolutely. But I also understand why we may never get it.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Alice does not have the desire to create new music--not for financial reason--just because he no longer cares too?

Alice is now playing to the nostalgia crowd--you may not like it--but it's reality. They want to hear the hits and see the classic props. It is what it is--an easy money maker with absolutley no risk. To me--a very smart way for an established artist to finish out his career.

I think there are a lot of fans who forever want it to be like 1972, 1975 or even 1981. They want THAT Alice. They think that that magic and genius just happens. It doesn't. That's why it's so special and timeless. They want Alice to do what THEY want and never want him to change.

You are under no obligation to be an Alice Cooper fan. If you don't like his current product or show then simply don't buy it. But I would imagine that if Alice were to release an album on par with "School's Out" you'd complain about it.[/quote]


Then you'd imagine wrong. I think I've stated more than once the solo albums I like. The last one I really liked was Brutal Planet. Pretty much after that about 3 or 4 songs an album.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Cruise ships great idea let's flock down to the nearby harbour."

On the one hand, you endorse and defend illegal downloading which deprives artists of income but on the other, you constantly denigrate the financial decisions some of these people are maybe forced to make because of the changing nature of the record business. Performers are paid to perform based on the requirements of whoever it is that is doing the hiring, whether it's a regular show, a corporate event or anything else. They are ultimately and at the most basic level, pretty much the same thing.

Yeah Capitain Birdseye called Alice and he just couldn't say no. How much are the tickets?Hope those casual fans have big pockets.

As for downloads it is what it is and you crying and harping on about it is pointless. Me caring one way or another is neither here nor there. Get over it.

Just a correction: It was Captain Merrill Stubing who placed the call to Alice.

I'm sure he had to put Lauren Tewes on to convince Shep the ladies man.

[mr.barlow]

Yeah Capitain Birdseye called Alice and he just couldn't say no. How much are the tickets?Hope those casual fans have big pockets.

As for downloads it is what it is and you crying and harping on about it is pointless. Me caring one way or another is neither here nor there. Get over it.[/quote]

Just a correction: It was Captain Merrill Stubing who placed the call to Alice.[/quote]


I'm sure he had to put Lauren Tewes on to convince Shep the ladies man.[/quote]

I must admit there is a lot of comedy to be had in the Alice cruise ship idea.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Why not answer the question?"

If I had permission to, I would but unfortunately for you, that isn't the case. Besides, you've never explained your obsession with this project. For someone so bored by it, you never fail to refer to it.

People like train wrecks.

[nurserozetta]

I don't see Metallica in any particular hurry to get a new album out at any time soon .

also on Metallica , their last album was fairly well received but they only ever really play 1 song off it at each show preferring to stick with their standard set lists.

plus they have released , not one but three cover albums or EPs , all of which were well received.

[Si]

also on Metallica , their last album was fairly well received but they only ever really play 1 song off it at each show preferring to stick with their standard set lists.

This isn`t completely true. When the album was released they played a large amount from the album. The show I say included 6 of the albums 10 tracks. They also alternated a couple of songs so you didn`t always get the same new songs and I think resulted in every track being played at some point.
Now, 8 years (?) later, they may only have one in the set if any, but when the album was new they played a lot.

[kevinuk81]

I believe Metallica are working on a new album right now.

[Si]

Yes, there was also a new song in the show all last summer.

[A_MichaelUK]

From darkmenace:
"But I'm sure you'd agree the album had a big impact"

Yes for about five minutes once people realised it wasn't that great (and I'm a Bowie fanatic) but people got carried away because of what I think is known as 'talking dog syndrome'.

> and copies of records sold doesn't reflect how many people are listening to the music but not buying the album, for example buying songs online, etc.

I completely agree (after all, I'm the one who endorses legal streaming) but I've never seen any streaming figures for it and as far as I'm aware, any figures would relate to the number of individual streams not the number of individuals who are streaming it, which makes a difference. The point I was making that even, say, ten years ago, most people who were interested in music were interested in what the major artists were doing but that no longer happens. Apart from the dedicated fans of that artist or band, nobody cares and that's partly because music isn't a major cultural force like it used to be.

>I Had he gone on tour the album would probably have crossed the million mark in copies sold by now. ]

I doubt it. People to don't need to go to a show to hear new material.

>The more relevant comparison in a discussion of Alice and Bowie is how many copies of Bowie's album were sold compared with W2MN. Does anyone know? I suspect the difference is rather large.

I agree but, again, comparisons like that aren't really fair. What you maybe should be doing is comparing it to Alice's last album.

[A_MichaelUK]

from pitkin88:
"Yeah Capitain Birdseye called Alice and he just couldn't say no."

Everyone has their price.

>How much are the tickets?

I have no idea.

>Hope those casual fans have big pockets.

Well, we'll soon find out (assuming it goes ahead).

>As for downloads it is what it is and you crying and harping on about it is pointless.

It is never "pointless" pointing out your hypocrisy.

> Me caring one way or another is neither here nor there. Get over it.

If that's the case, why are you constantly commenting on his financial or economic decisions? That sounds like more hypocrisy.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88
>People like train wrecks.

How do you know that is what it's going to be? Again, for someone so disinterested, you have an awful lot to say about it (and that's before you've even heard it, although I'm assuming you won't be listening to it as you're not interested).

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88
>People like train wrecks.

How do you know that is what it's going to be? Again, for someone so disinterested, you have an awful lot to say about it (and that's before you've even heard it, although I'm assuming you won't be listening to it as you're not interested).

Again you will be assuming wrong. I won't be buying it. ( please not this does not mean i will be illegally downloading it )


With Demonoid gone and now Pirate Bay ( ahoy Captain Alice ) has that made an impact on Alice's bank account? Seriously doubt it though i know you are watching the pennies for him.

[recoop]

Just thinking about all of this- if a new album containing new material isn't expected to sell well but the artist feels that it adds to or updates his image/brand etc then given that new releases may do something to keep the image alive, gain social media attention- concert tickets can be sold on the back of the new release/PR created- I view Brutal Planet as a bit like this in 2000 was it- first studio album for 6 years I think- didn't sell shedloads but in UK we got a fine tour, appearance on TFI Friday and new critical respect for Alice! He also seemed to be giving some serious social comment to the state of our planet/ "ball of hate"- With sales falling for music it must be bewildering for artists and they may not want to risk their standing with a new release. I always hope artists take the risk and release new stuff- what risk anyway? Alice even survived the release of Lace and Whiskey!

[pitkin88]

Where there any figures from the sales of WTMN2 released? I wonder if it broke even with the costs of all the guest players and Ezrin. For Alice maybe it is not worth it anymore. For new bands trying to build a fan base it is thankfully still needed.

[killer wolf]

I don't see Metallica in any particular hurry to get a new album out at any time soon .

also on Metallica , their last album was fairly well received but they only ever really play 1 song off it at each show preferring to stick with their standard set lists.

plus they have released , not one but three cover albums or EPs , all of which were well received.

as Si pointed out, not quite true. also, Alice is guilty of that too; W2MN didn't exactly get much of a live airing, did it? he plays more cover versions that songs off that album, so that kinda works agains evil syd's point; what's teh point of doing a great new album then playing someone else's music?

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Again you will be assuming wrong. I won't be buying it."

Read what I wrote! I didn't assume you would be "byuing it." That isn't what I wrote.

>With Demonoid gone and now Pirate Bay ( ahoy Captain Alice ) has that made an impact on Alice's bank account? Seriously doubt it.

Too late - the damage is done. There are other ways to obtain material illegally, as I'm sure you know. Besides, it isn't just about him - it affects other musicians and writers as well, many of whom have not been as successful as he has.

>though i know you are watching the pennies for him.

I appreciate the attempt at being facetious, but I am not his business manager, in case anyone took your post seriously.