Lefsetz discusses 'Supermensch'

[RemarkablyInsincere]

The music business died with Live Aid.

We can debate when it was born, whether it was with Bill Haley, Little Richard or the Beatles, but it was truly done after that July day in 1985, which was a victory lap Woodstock could only dream of. This wasn’t just 400,000 on Max Yasgur’s farm, the whole world was watching.

And that’s the way it used to be, when rock and roll ruled the world.

The best rock documentary ever made is “History Of The Eagles.”

The second best might be the first half of “Supermensch: The Legend of Shep Gordon.”

Shep Gordon, who is that?

That’s just the point. The last time I saw him he and Alice Cooper were getting an award and Shep refused to make a speech, knowing his success was all about putting his acts first. If your manager is famous, telling you how great he is, you’ve got the wrong one.

And that’s what’s wrong with this movie. It’s hagiography. Watching you’d think Shep Gordon is the nicest, most powerful person in the world, friendly with the Dalai Lama and screwing Sharon Stone. Then again, these are the kinds of myths created before Live Aid, when you sat at home, reading the magazines with your jaw dropped in awe, saying to yourself…I WANT TO GET ME SOME OF THAT!

Which is why everybody moved to L.A. and Sweet Connie and the rest of the groupies wanted to get close. Because up through Live Aid, rock was where it was at.

And that’s where the first half of this documentary is, before it devolves into chefs and actors and Hawaii and all the stuff we think we care about but really don’t, because rock music, when done right, is life itself. Actors play a role, rock stars are the role.

So Shep graduates from the University of Buffalo. The media tells you you need to go to an Ivy, but neither Irving nor Geffen graduated from college, because what it takes to succeed is never taught in school, it’s in your DNA, it’s who you are.

And Shep Gordon is a stoner graduating with a sociology degree who wants to save the world. But after ten minutes as a probation officer, he turns to rock and roll. No, that’s not true, he turns to dope dealing.

The fact that it’s illegal? Everybody who made it in the rock era did something illegal.

So he hooks up with Alice Cooper and…

They’re broke. They’re running out on the bill. Frank Zappa doesn’t even want to put out their record.

Obstacles, it’s worse than “Survivor” making it in the music business.

So Shep and the boys lie, cheat and steal, utilize leverage and luck to make it.

They have a truck carrying a picture of Alice and his snake break down in Piccadilly Circus. They manipulate the media. And we bought it.

Furthermore, they were breaking rules all the time, standing up to the label, oh how different it is today.

They were flying by the seat of their pants, drinking and drugging, screwing and swallowing, having fun all the while.

And what will you learn?

The three rules of rock and roll.

1. Get the money.

2. Think about getting the money.

3. Remember to always think about getting the money.

That’s what a manager does.

They don’t unpack so they can roll out quickly.

They’ve got a checklist because they can’t think clearly.

They’re flying private and meeting every famous person and if you didn’t want to be a rock star back when, you were deaf.

No one wants to be a rock star today.

Oh, there are the bankers and techies who call themselves that, but they’re not cool.

And the people in music are only doing it their way if they think it will pay dividends. No one’s got a backbone, at least no one with any talent and success.

But as Shep says… If he does his job really well, it’ll probably kill you.

Because being a rock star is hard work. Without a safety net. Hell, the bassist from the Atlanta Rhythm Section died the other day, Robert Nix is already six feet under, ever wonder why our rockers don’t live?

So you’ll watch this movie and buy it or if you’re sophisticated you won’t.

Shep is convinced he saw Pablo Picasso, but the artist died years before.

You see rockers’ memories are imperfect. And they know that fiction makes a better story than truth. Which is why most of what you read before Live Aid was half true or made up, it was part of the act, part of the magic.

But after Live Aid…

MTV realized it was big business. They squeezed the original VJs out, they added a game show and scripted programming to hold viewers and garner advertising.

But once upon a time, the music was enough.

Because it drove the culture. It was where the kids who didn’t fit in went to not only get rich, but change the world.

At a price.

The one price that is constantly emphasized in this film is Shep Gordon’s personal life. Married twice, his first betrothal was annulled and the second fizzled when his wife refused to employ artificial means to have a child.

And if you believe that, you’re wet behind the ears.

You see Shep Gordon was fueled by the action, doing for others made him feel good. That drug left room for no one else, and still doesn’t. He surrounds himself with friends, but those friends go home to their spouses, he sleeps alone.

So beware the life of famous stardom.

Shep says fame doesn’t make you happy.

But neither does wealth.

They both just temporarily fill an endless hole.

But we can’t stop watching. Those of us who color inside the lines, who are afraid to take a risk and marvel at those who do. Which is why we’re now enamored of extreme sports icons like Shaun White more than musicians.

But once upon a time, “Rolling Stone” was the Bible. You had to go to the gig to feel included. Youth drove the world, our parents weren’t wearing designer jeans, they were completely clueless.

We ruled.

Our musicians led.

And not a single one made it without a manager, a handler, an entourage.

Because being a good performer/writer/musician is one thing. Doing business is another.

Was Shep Gordon the best ever? Is he as good as he’s portrayed in this movie?

It doesn’t matter.

What does is if you lived through this era, the early seventies, when Alice Cooper was the biggest band in the land, you’ll see yourself in this movie, reading the rock rags, bothering your parents with the music, believing that inside the grooves of these records was truth and a path forward.

If only those days would come back.

“Supermensch: The Legend of Shep Gordon”: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3074780/

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[A_MichaelUK]

>You see rockers’ memories are imperfect. And they know that fiction makes a better story than truth.

Exactly and yet so many people still don't realise that.

[darkmenace]

While I think Shep Gordon was a great manager and a big part of the band's success I'm going to share a reservation I've always had about him and it's summed up in this quote:

"So Shep and the boys lie, cheat and steal, utilize leverage and luck to make it."

That's what Lefsetz takes away from the Shep movie and I'm sure Shep is proud of the way he promoted the band with the stunts that got them publicity and getting parents outraged and upset. The blend of Alice theatrics, music, and promotion is what made the band. But the implication that outrageous promotion was everything is flat out wrong.

The people I knew that bought the Cooper albums thought the music was fantastic. They were classic rock fans with good taste. They dug the whole experience, theatrics and music. To some of us the outlandish promotions were a distraction, like the chicken story and panties.

In "What You Want is in the Limo" Shep is quoted as saying: "I don't care about the music. All I care about is the theatrics."

To me that's Shep's main shortcoming as their manager. Shep's focus on disgusting parents and pulling off stunts make it seem like it's the only reason the band made it to the top. But if outrage alone made for success then bands like the Plasmatics and King Diamond would have become major acts.

I'm looking forward to the Shep movie, he looks like a great guy, but the review made me want to share my views and I'm curious what others think since Shep is now a hot topic.

[A_MichaelUK]

>the implication that outrageous promotion was everything is flat out wrong.

He wasn't implying that. He was stressing the importance of good management.

>To some of us the outlandish promotions were a distraction, like the chicken story and panties.

There is nothing wrong with that except the other stuff you mention is what created the legend beyond it being just about the music.

>Shep's focus on disgusting parents and pulling off stunts make it seem like it's the only reason the band made it to the top.

Of course it doesn't - you have to remember the documentary is about a manager not a musician or composer so it's kind of obvious it is going to concentrate on a manager's attributes or failings.
But if outrage alone made for success then bands like the Plasmatics and King Diamond would have become major acts.



>and I'm curious what others think since Shep is now a hot topic.

You have misunderstood a big chunk of the process that led to then success of the band. Of course the music came first and was the most important thing and I'm sure you and your friends were proud of your "good taste", but Alice Cooper has always been about more than just the music (I can't believe I have to explain this) and it was the skilful creation of controversy that created the legend. It happened before Alice Cooper existed and it has happened subsequently as well. I am sure there are also people who don't like any Alice Cooper music but who find the story to be fascinating all the same. It is also dangerous to base your review on someone else's before you have actually seen the documentary because you end up running the risk of reviewing the review, which is kind of what you have done.

[pitkin88]

It might be worth pointing out that the music you claim came first was pretty awful. One more bad album in that sloppy amateurish way after Easy Action and that probably would have been it.

I doubt this movie will cover its costs unless they are very low. I can't see the general public having any interest in it.

[A_MichaelUK]

>It might be worth pointing out that the music you claim came first was pretty awful.

I thought it was pretty obvious that we were discussing the entire scope of the band's career. I was also making the point to reassue dark menace that the music wasn't as secondary as he (or she) feared.

>I doubt this movie will cover its costs unless they are very low.

You made a similar claim about Alice's new album, so not only do you think you know what's happening there, you seem to think to know what's happening with this as well.

>I can't see the general public having any interest in it.

You could be right but I also think Mike Myers, WME Global, Harvey Weinstein and A&E IndieFims know a bit more about this sort of thing than you do.

[TodayMueller]

I'm with Andy here.
And shep probably didn't think the first two albums were commersial enough, but he did a great job promoting the band untill Ezrin took care of the music.

Not that I don't like PFY and EA, I think especially EA is brilliant, but can understand why they weren't big sellers.
I'm not very fond of most of the hits, like Be My Lover, Under My Wheeels, Elected, School's Out, etc, but they helped getting the name out.

I don't care about the general public, I'm just happy that Myers did this movie and am looking forward very much to see it.

Great Things coming up lately, especially with the Toronto '72 show included in the Super Duper DVD.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Great Things coming up lately,

Somebody, somewhere, will find something to complain about.

[mr.barlow]

The thing that was accomplished is that both Shep and Alice created a musical icon. The truth be told that this happened because of both the music and the theatrics but most of all because of shrewd marketing. Alice Cooper has been able to survive nearly 50 years because of marketing. Why do you think Alice always shifted to the current music trends of any given era? This was to be able to "sell" the character to a new generation of fans. Lace & Whiskey was the first time he tried to change the image-Maurice Escargot's performace on the Tonight Show (it was a HUGE thing to be on this show) is a classic example--it didn't work for many reasons and he came back with the classic character with From The Inside. He then went to the new wave/punk image in 1980 with little success--and rode it into near obscurity. What did he come back with? The classic character. They made a decision to make a simple album for a mid 1980s teenage audience--who were enamored with mindless blather from bands like Ratt, Quiet Riot, etc, . That would be the first step back to success. It worked like a charm as the tour was an incredible success and now considered one the best of any band of that era. Constictor and Raise Your Fist And Yell were not meant to be artistic albums. They were made to re-establish Alice and the character. Remember-Alice the writer writes for Alice the character. Trash was the knock-out punch in a well calculated comeback plan. It worked perfectly and because of this "hair metal" period Alice established himself as a true legend. Much to the chagrin of some fans--but guess what--most of those fans are still fans. Fans have to come to terms with the fact that Alice Cooper is a business as is all entertainment. Certain decisions, tall tales, myths, and whole albums were created with the sole purpose of making the character of Alice successful. Some call it a "sell-out" but if it were not for those mid-80s hair metal albums chances are Alice would now have been considered a 1970s era fad. There is nothing wrong with breing critical of albums (I can write my own diatribes on a few) but fans have to take into context that they were made to have had the best chance to succeed in the marketplace at that time. Also, remember the MCA albums did not do too great--in sales and chart positions--but they generated enough buzz and press that got Alice his footing to launch Trash. Shep Gordon is a modern day P.T. Barnum and an absolute marketing/business genius. If it were not for Shep Gordon---and Bob Ezrin--Alice Cooper (the group and the solo artist) would never have made it after Easy Action.

[steven_crayn]

there was a great radio interview Alice did with Nicky Horne (probably the best interview Alice ever gave) in which he talked about Shep paying back every hotel the band did a runner from, once they had made money.

Alice also talked about how when the band was struggling they too would steal money, from women's handbags while one of the band took her to bed.

The rock business isn't for saints (certainly not back then) but it's nice to think it had its own sort of morality.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The rock business isn't for saints

As I may have said before, it isn't like being in an episode of "The Monkees" and people are so shocked when they discover that.

[darkmenace]

"There is nothing wrong with being critical of albums (I can write my own diatribes on a few) but fans have to take into context that they were made to have had the best chance to succeed in the marketplace at that time. Also, remember the MCA albums did not do too great--in sales and chart positions--but they generated enough buzz and press that got Alice his footing to launch Trash. Shep Gordon is a modern day P.T. Barnum and an absolute marketing/business genius."

The disappointment for me wasn't that Alice observed that a heavy metal comeback might be a good idea given the times, it was the execution of that idea. For the most part artists are judged by the quality of their work and the quality and originality of music on Constrictor, RYFAY, and Trash was low (by most standards). Most fans don't listen to music in order to marvel at marketing/business choices. Those choices don't have legs; short-term audiences can disappear overnight if there's a lack of quality. That's exactly what happened and Alice was back to independent labels by the time of BP.

[A_MichaelUK]

>That's exactly what happened and Alice was back to independent labels by the time of BP.

There is nothing wrong with that though and besides, you make it sound like he went from "Raise Your Fist And Yell" straight through to "BP" and as I'm sure you know, "The Last Temptation" was acclaimed. I doubt the the "lack of quality" you referred to had anything to do with it.

[darkmenace]

>There is nothing wrong with that though and besides, you make it sound like he went from "Raise Your Fist And Yell" straight through to "BP" and as I'm sure you know, "The Last Temptation" was acclaimed. I doubt the the "lack of quality" you referred to had anything to do with it.

My point was the kind of audience gained from Constrictor to Trash was largely a "soft" audience and by the time he got to TLT most of them had already jumped ship. Others who may have given TLT a listen had stopped following due to the marketing choices made from C to T.

[mr.barlow]

The disappointment for me wasn't that Alice observed that a heavy metal comeback might be a good idea given the times, it was the execution of that idea. For the most part artists are judged by the quality of their work and the quality and originality of music on Constrictor, RYFAY, and Trash was low (by most standards). Most fans don't listen to music in order to marvel at marketing/business choices. Those choices don't have legs; short-term audiences can disappear overnight if there's a lack of quality. That's exactly what happened and Alice was back to independent labels by the time of BP.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that as 1985-1986 rolled around Alice had NO audience outside of hardcore/longtime fans. The sales of Flush The Fashion thru DaDa were beyond dismal so it shows that even if every single one of his hardcore fans were buying those albums it was not be enough to sustain a career. The thing is a lot of fans had given up on him by then for many reasons. Also, a lot of Alice's audience outgrew him. People change, trends change, the industry changes. He was reaching for new fans--fans he needed if he wished to continue as an entertainer. The easiset way was through the hair metal craze and it was a natural fit for the character as Alice was an influence to nearly ALL of those bands. If he recorded another Welcome To My Nightmare or even a School's Out it would not have sold. The times and trends changed. The hot rock n roll in 1986 was hair metal--it was what was selling. By the way--it took Alice back to the top of the charts with Trash--correct? So...I guess it worked. How many of those fans stayed along for the ride--who knows--but one thing is for sure--he gained more fans because of that period that he lost. Also, I really don't think Alice cares how those albums are judged based on artistic merit---he was out to resurrect and save his career--it reminds me of a classic quote from Liberace when he was asked how he reacts to the awful reviews he always got from the critics. He stated "I cry all the way to the bank". You're right--the average fan doesn't care about the marketing--in fact most are completely unaware of it--they don't realize that everytime they open up their wallet to buy a shirt, tourbook and lunchbox that are a customer of it. As far as the marketing choices "not having legs"--you are so completely wrong. It is the marketing that carries the whole damn thing. Music is music--some great, some okay and some awful--but guess what--without marketing you would have never heard any of it. From The Beatles to Justin Beiber--it all got heard because it was marketed very successfully. Why do you think lousy music gets to the top of the charts? By making people think they like it and creating an image of the band/entertainer that people want. Think of how many great albums we've all heard by artists that no one ever heard of--why--lack of marketing and the ability to reach a mass market. Also, as far as Alice being back on independent labels by Brutal Planet---the music industry had completely changed by that time. Also, an artist can make the same money selling less records on an independent label that selling tens of millions on a major label. Artists were getting smart. Google John Prine and "Oh Boy Records" if you want a good example of this. At this point with Alice pushing 70 years old I'm sure he is quite content with how his career turned out and his place in music history. I'm sure he is also very content with the hair metal years as it's what gave him back his career and his ability to continue to this day.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Others who may have given TLT a listen had stopped following due to the marketing choices made from C to T.

I don't understand what this means. If they "had stopped following due to the marketing choices made from C to T.", how did they end up listening to "The Last Temptation"?

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm sure he is also very content with the hair metal years as it's what gave him back his career and his ability to continue to this day.

It is the same as when he had hit singles which were ballads. As he said: "So we did ballads, which was like a hand in poker. You had to keep your hand in the game, even if it was a losing one. Accidentally, the ballads became hits! I went 'Oh, no, the last thing I need is a hit ballad!' One would've been fine, but there were four Top 20 ballad hits! If it had been my choice, I wouldn't have released those songs as singles. It was like I was becoming Tony Bennett or something." The situation concerning "the hair metal years", was pretty much the same.

[mr.barlow]

>I'm sure he is also very content with the hair metal years as it's what gave him back his career and his ability to continue to this day.

It is the same as when he had hit singles which were ballads. As he said: "So we did ballads, which was like a hand in poker. You had to keep your hand in the game, even if it was a losing one. Accidentally, the ballads became hits! I went 'Oh, no, the last thing I need is a hit ballad!' One would've been fine, but there were four Top 20 ballad hits! If it had been my choice, I wouldn't have released those songs as singles. It was like I was becoming Tony Bennett or something." The situation concerning "the hair metal years", was pretty much the same.

Absolutely right! The thing is there are people that know Alice today because of the ballads. Those songs brought him mainstream appeal and "softened" his image. Much to the dismay of the "purist" fans who want to to be 1972 forever, but the times were changing as were musical trends. I mean the image went from gallows and snakes to the image on the sleeve of the "You And Me" single. I think the whole thing got away from he and Shep with the Lace & Whiskey album--I think Alice is quoted as saying it was a result of "Hollywood excess" and they reigned it back in with From The Inside--but again--maybe a bit too late--but more so because musical trends were again changing. What I can never understand about a segment of Alice's fans in their absoulte unwillingness to accept anything other than the "classic" Alice. Some are so caught up in the original band that broke up in 1974-(that's 40 years ago--my God!) while others want Welcome To My Nightmare to be re-written and re-written again. I'm not saying you have to like Alice's different forays into different styles but understand that as an artist/entertainer you have to change with the times or your career is shot. People have to also understand that the reason Alice has the comfort of doing basically what he wants right now--or why he can ride with the "classic" character for the rest of his career is because he spent 30+ years working to get himself to this point. Without riding those trends---he would be simply a footnote in 1970s trivia--not the guy who's about to embark on another world tour!

[concolz]

What I can never understand about a segment of Alice's fans in their absoulte unwillingness to accept anything other than the "classic" Alice. Some are so caught up in the original band that broke up in 1974-(that's 40 years ago--my God!) while others want Welcome To My Nightmare to be re-written and re-written again.

Well, speaking for myself - as a 40-years plus fan - I enjoy many of the 'twists and turns' Alice has made in his solo career; in fact, I'd have liked him to be even more adventurous and tried out tons of 'weird and wacky' styles. L&W apart, I think his 70's studio albums are wonderful, as they broadened his musical palette, and I particularly like two of the ballads - 'OWB' and 'INC'.

The three 'lost years' albums appeal to me because of their quirkiness, plus they not only didn't fit in with any prevailing musical genres but they didn't fit in with what most remaining fans probably wanted either! IMO, 'Dada' is an 'accidental' classic, and although the other albums run out of 'creative steam' at least Alice was trying something different, even if it 'failed'. I also love the majority of Alice's post-millennium material, simply because it's so eclectic.

There have been a few individual albums along the way that I haven't liked, for various reasons, but the only 'era' I don't enjoy at all is - you guessed it - the 'hair metal years'. I would venture that the vast majority of AC fans actually enjoy a broad swathe of his career.

As for Shep Gordon - the actual subject of this thread! - well I don't really know enough about him to say whether I think he's an 'absolute marketing/business genius' or not. (One reason I suppose I should see the film!) The thing that does always impress me though, is how he and Alice are still together after all these decades.

[Mr.Bluelegs]

"Those ballads" kept his career afloat and were fantastic. They may have softened his image but I think Alice was ready to embrace the mainstream a bit. e.g.- Hollywood Squares, Carson show. Without hits (revenue for Warner Brothers), he could have been dropped by them by '79 or '80. Alice is no fool!