Alice Cooper's DaDa- Albums Unleashed w/Dick Wagner

[concolz]

It's pointless really to consider the 'what might have beens', re Alice's 1986 comeback. The facts are that he hitched his wagon to the prevailing US hair metal scene, releasing a trio of financially successful albums - with equally successful tours - which culminated in the megabucks 'Trash'. My opinion is that whilst this period was monetarily rewarding, it was artistically redundant.

The really interesting debate is whether a formerly 'big' artist making a comeback, (for whatever reasons and from whatever circumstances) has automatically got to gear everything toward the lowest common denominator - for at least a certain period of time - in order to recapture/capture a large audience. If they go down the more 'artistically worthy' route, does that necessarily ensure being condemned to the margins of critical praise yet a much smaller fan base? I'm not convinced that it always does. In AC's case though, we'll never know.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

the songwriting is pure 1980s pop metal--no better or worse than anything else of that era

I wouldn't agree with that.

As an Alice fan I can find enjoyment in it, but I'm not going to kid myself that it's all that good of an album. There was tons of great 80s pop metal that was brilliant in comparison to this album.

[darkmenace]

"My opinion is that whilst this period was monetarily rewarding, it was artistically redundant."

Also sent a message that Alice wasn't artistically relevant. My friends knew I was an AC fan but I made sure they didn't hear the hair metal albums or even see them (the album cover for RYFAY was horrible).

There was roughly ten years between Dada and TLT and the stuff put out in between is what defined him to many people.

[concolz]

My friends knew I was an AC fan but I made sure they didn't hear the hair metal albums or even see them (the album cover for RYFAY was horrible).

Apart from being a wonderful album, the 'Dada' cover is stupendous as well. Even 'SF' and 'ZCS' have quirkily interesting covers. But 'Constrictor' and 'RYFAY' are like third-rate parodies, because they're so obvious. It's as though they're visually summing up what's in the grooves. All the subtlety, tension, raw emotion and dramatic darkness of the 'Dada' experience has been bleached out and replaced by a bludgeoning soullessness.

[While Heaven Wept]

Apart from being a wonderful album, the 'Dada' cover is stupendous as well. Even 'SF' and 'ZCS' have quirkily interesting covers.

I happen to think that both the ZCS and SF covers are extremely poor..... barely any effort made in those two.

Dada is good.... but then it's just a reworking of something Dali did many years before.

[mr.barlow]

Well the has been put together a very well attended shows in the UK with Special Forces with very scant backing from Warner Bros. Press in the UK was almost non existent between 80-83. Despite all this 7 & 7 is almost cracked the charts with probably zero air play. If the label had been behind him the comeback was certainly on the cards.[/quote]

The problem was the label was not behind him. The situation was approaching toxic levels. The Special Forces tour may have been filling houses in the UK and did respectably in the USA but it was clear that Alice was in decline. The album itself was a flop. It didn't help that Alice was dealing with a drug problem which has now been made public in the Super Duper documentary. I had heard stories (maybe someone here can confirm them) that WB pulled the plug on financing Zipper near the end of production. They had it and refused to cough up any more money. This may also account for lack of a tour--but I think ALice's health may have had more to do with it. It was a miracle Dada was ever made--and that WB even released it. There was no way Alice could have had a comeback right after Dada. His life and career were a ridiculous mess--and no label wanted to take a chance on him.

[mr.barlow]

"My opinion is that whilst this period was monetarily rewarding, it was artistically redundant."

Also sent a message that Alice wasn't artistically relevant. My friends knew I was an AC fan but I made sure they didn't hear the hair metal albums or even see them (the album cover for RYFAY was horrible).

There was roughly ten years between Dada and TLT and the stuff put out in between is what defined him to many people.

I always remember it that the RYFAY cover was done that way on purpose. It was a nod to some of the awful album covers of the independent labels of the day--mainly European releases. I think it was a joke that nobody got and it is just horrible. The funny thing is that the inner sleeve art became immoratlized in the Trash era. Also, I think MCA had Alice on a very tight budget for the recording of Constrictor & RYFAY. I also remember that the Constrictor cover was a result of the budget and there was no money for proper artwork. You have to remember--that Alice was considered a "has-been" by the music industry and his past substance abuse problems didn't help the matter. Most labels wanted nothing to do with him. MCA took a chance--but had a tight leash. There was a press release at the time that read something to the effect of "we don't care how much we spend with Alice as long as we're having fun" and that was a big joke as from what I was told they gave Alice modest budgets for both albums and gave no more. I think The Nightmare Returns tour was financed by Shep and Alice personally. I remember reading an interview with ALice where he stated he put every penny he had left into that tour. The biggest gamble of his life.

[mr.barlow]

"My opinion is that whilst this period was monetarily rewarding, it was artistically redundant."

Also sent a message that Alice wasn't artistically relevant. My friends knew I was an AC fan but I made sure they didn't hear the hair metal albums or even see them (the album cover for RYFAY was horrible).

There was roughly ten years between Dada and TLT and the stuff put out in between is what defined him to many people.

The great thing about Alice's longevity it that he is defined by five generations of fans. How many bands/artists can say that? You have the fans of the original Alice Cooper Band, the Dick Wagner era, the "blackout" years (my era of discovery--1981), hair metal Alice, Brutal Planet era, to the present day where young fans are just discovering a singer that got his start in the late 1960s! You have fans of the original band that are elderly grandparents--some great-grandparents and you have new fans that are still in high school! It's mind boggling. I think it's great that some people define Alice by B$B and others by Trash. It shows you what a diverse artist he is and how he found a way to survive in an industry where the average shelf life of a band in the 1970s was just a few years. It also shows the marketing and business genius of Alice and Shep. I'm sure in the years to come much will be written about this.

[concolz]

The great thing about Alice's longevity it that he is defined by five generations of fans. How many bands/artists can say that?

Well, there's Jerry Lee Lewis who's still going strong. There's also the small matter of Bob Dylan, The Stones, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Neil Diamond and Paul Simon. Not to mention Paul McCartney, Elton J, Janis Ian, Patti Smith, David Bowie, Sabbath and Purple, Prince, Kate Bush, Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Iggy Pop, John Lydon etc etc. Their average 'shelf life' has been slightly more than a few years and all have had their different 'eras'. Many of these also get a cross-generational audience.

[Daggers & Contracts]

I'll, go out on a dead limb here and say in my own opinion DADA was AC's nadir
- he had nowhere to go but up from there. A couple of good tunes (with a lot of help). He lost me with ZCS and DADA was the nail in the coffin for me. I passed on RYF&Y + Constrictor but was enticed by Trash, back to Pop form he was and I bought the other 2 I missed!

[mr.barlow]

The great thing about Alice's longevity it that he is defined by five generations of fans. How many bands/artists can say that?

Well, there's Jerry Lee Lewis who's still going strong. There's also the small matter of Bob Dylan, The Stones, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Neil Diamond and Paul Simon. Not to mention Paul McCartney, Elton J, Janis Ian, Patti Smith, David Bowie, Sabbath and Purple, Prince, Kate Bush, Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young, Iggy Pop, John Lydon etc etc. Their average 'shelf life' has been slightly more than a few years and all have had their different 'eras'. Many of these also get a cross-generational audience.

You make a good point--there are a lot of artists still going strong. However, each and every one of them you have listed have eras which I'm sure some fans are not too thrilled with. Deep Purple with Joe Lynn Turner was a joke--yet there are fans who love that brief period. Paul McCartney and "Spies Like Us"---just horrible. I mean I think the best Sabbath album is Born Again with Gillan yet I bet 99% of their fans would disagree. The era to which a fan "defines" Alice is up to them. There is no need to be critical of them because they think Alice's best song is "Crawlin". There is no need to be critical of Alice for recording those albums--it is his career and what he chose do do--whether it be artistic merit or a cash grab--the reasons why he writes and records album is up to him. You as a fan have the ability not to buy or listen to them. You are free not to be a fan. The fact is that one of the reasons for Alice's longevity is his willingness to change with musical trends. Some may call it "selling-out" but I call it survival to stay in business. Nearly every one of the huge artists/bands you listed above have done the same. Bowie and "Let's Dance" is a glaring example. At any rate--getting back to the point about what "defines" Alice. What "defines" Alice to anyone is what ever they want it to be.

[mr.barlow]

the songwriting is pure 1980s pop metal--no better or worse than anything else of that era

I wouldn't agree with that.

As an Alice fan I can find enjoyment in it, but I'm not going to kid myself that it's all that good of an album. There was tons of great 80s pop metal that was brilliant in comparison to this album.

There is no such thing as "brilliant" pop metal. It's fun, light and sold millions of records but is is definitely not brilliant.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The facts are that he hitched his wagon to the prevailing US hair metal scene,

That may be true but it is also a fact that he was a big influence and inspiration to those bands, so if anyone was entitled to do that, he was. It isn't like he made an album in a style that was completely alien to him or anything.

>My opinion is that whilst this period was monetarily rewarding, it was artistically redundant.

That is all that it is though - your "opinion". There are also people who are passionate about those albums.

[A_MichaelUK]

Also sent a message that Alice wasn't artistically relevant.

According to whom, though? Did we not have this discussion already and relatively recently as well?

>My friends knew I was an AC fan but I made sure they didn't hear the hair metal albums or even see them (the album cover for RYFAY was horrible).

That says more about you than it does your "friends" though. If you happen to like any particular album, you shouldn't be afraid of that or worry about what anyone else is going to say. Who cares?

>There was roughly ten years between Dada and TLT and the stuff put out in between is what defined him to many people.

That would be hard to prove. Some stick with an artist and investigate future previous albums and some do not. That is just the way it is.

[A_MichaelUK]

>There is no need to be critical of them because they think Alice's best song is "Crawlin".

Exactly and nobody is a bigger snob when it comes to things like that than I am.

[sumorider]

I'm sorry for my poor English.

I'm always very surprised that many fans in US and UK don't like Constrictor, RYFAY, even Trash.

In Japan where heavy metal is very popular
(famous heavy metal magazine called "Burrn!"),
Trash is regarded by many Alice fans (in Japan) as his best album.
RYHAY is also regarded by some fans as one of his best.
Constrictor is also rated very high.

[Daggers & Contracts]

I'm sorry for my poor English.

I'm always very surprised that many fans in US and UK don't like Constrictor, RYFAY, even Trash.

In Japan where heavy metal is very popular
(famous heavy metal magazine called "Burrn!"),
Trash is regarded by many Alice fans (in Japan) as his best album.
RYHAY is also regarded by some fans as one of his best.
Constrictor is also rated very high.

Thank You, you have made your point very well. While I don't exactly believe these are his best Lp's, Constrictor has a song that was included in a movie, and the other two got Alice airplay that had been seriously lacking for about 5 years.

[Crazy Little Child]

Guitarist/composer Dick Wagner, a longtime collaborator of Alice's, was the principal songwriter on this album and was kind enough, while in Nashville in May of 2014, to sit down with Aaron and Chris to discuss the entire album track by track and memory by memory.

I would just like to thank Decible Geek & Dick Wagner for traveling to the future to perform this interview. Above & beyond the call of duty.

[criss]

Thanx for sharing this , great stuff indeed

[steven_crayn]

DaDa was easily the best of those 4 Alice Cooper 'alternative' solo albums. I read an interview where Alice said he wanted to put everything into those last 4 albums he was contracted to release with Warner Bros.
Dada highlights the importance of Wagner & Ezrin and what Flush, Special Forces & Zipper were missing.

There was actually a lot of UK press and media coverage when Alice made his return to the UK in 82 proving people hadn't forgotten him Kerrang!, TV & Radio it was a mini comeback it's like people think because the image had changed and didn't return until 86 that those albums and tours were not relevant. Special Forces was a great show even if it wasn't a great album and with the back catalogue of the 1970s to use Alice the solo artist was always going to do well.

DaDa is an artistic high point of his career even though with no tour it was not a great commercial success.
It's a better album than the one that followed it even though that Nightmare Returns (Constrictor) Tour was fantastic though the RYFAY album & tour that followed were better. I'm not buying the criticism of RYFAY as an album it is not far off being a classic, side 2 in particular is excellent and the opening track to the album was Alice's best single for years. Freedom was an anthem, the Elected of the 1980s.