Grande Ballroom - Alice Cooper?

[GNDM]

Not that anyone cares anymore...but this is still one of the best (non-solo) Alice Cooper sites around. Thought I'd offer this up and see what more info is available.

A few years ago, Alice appeared on a documentary film about Detroit's famous Grande Ballroom. His appearance was based on the assumption that the band played there at some point (probably 1969). However, I have found no evidence on the net that the band played the ORIGINAL Grande Ballroom. According to Si's timelines, the band appeared at the Grande on October 10 and 11, and again on November 1. The last date would be impossible since the band was in California at the time. The October dates bring up a problem. Per my research, Russ Gibb, who put on the Grande Shows, stopped shows at the original Grande at the end of August (lease issues?) and for a couple of months rented out the Riviera Theater just down the street from the ballroom to put on rock shows. The theater's name was actually changed to the 'Grande Riviera' during that time period. I have found a concert database website that states that the Alice Cooper Band played THERE on October 10 and 11....the second night opening for the Who.

Now this is a minor variation for sure...but if true, Alice may not have played at the Grande Ballroom that the film was documenting. It is also possible that the surviving band members (unknowingly) are confusing the "theater" they played in with the original venue.

The plot further thickens with the creation(?) of the B.B. King legend, that has the premise that there was a mix up over who would take the stage last at the Grande, when these two acts were booked the same night. B.B. King did play the original Grande...but as far as I can determine - there was no bill where he and the AC Band were performing.

I am still poking around about this, so any leads or pointers are welcomed.

[A_MichaelUK]

>so any leads or pointers are welcomed.

It is certainly frustrating that there is no hard evidence of any specific shows at that venue and I've certainly spent enough time looking for it. When we were putting the last box - set together, I particularly looked out for anything concerning any shows in Detroit beyond any that I had evidence for.

[GNDM]

OK boys.....

After checking dozens of websites and blogs, I have reached this final conclusion. The Alice Cooper Band never played at Detroit's original Grande Ballroom - a venue played by many famous RnR icons in the late 60's. It seems they may have played one or two nights in October of 1969 at the Grande Riviera Theater just down the street from the ballroom. A beautiful theater - but not the iconic Grande. My final bit of evidence comes from an individual who asked Alice about playing at the Grande....and Alice mentions seeing movies there. Obviously he is not referring to the Grande Ballroom which was built for dancing and live music.

The only problem with this discovery is Alice's participation in the documentary film "Louder than Love" in which, he claims to have played there. (One of his quotes: "The rest of the world was on 10 - the Grande was on 11.") He seems to have formed a recollection out of 'the vapors'....or he confused a theater with a ballroom. And the B.B. King story???? Who knows who created that bit of myth?

[Si]

OK boys.....

After checking dozens of websites and blogs, I have reached this final conclusion. The Alice Cooper Band never played at Detroit's original Grande Ballroom - a venue played by many famous RnR icons in the late 60's. It seems they may have played one or two nights in October of 1969 at the Grande Riviera Theater just down the street from the ballroom. A beautiful theater - but not the iconic Grande. My final bit of evidence comes from an individual who asked Alice about playing at the Grande....and Alice mentions seeing movies there. Obviously he is not referring to the Grande Ballroom which was built for dancing and live music.

The only problem with this discovery is Alice's participation in the documentary film "Louder than Love" in which, he claims to have played there. (One of his quotes: "The rest of the world was on 10 - the Grande was on 11.") He seems to have formed a recollection out of 'the vapors'....or he confused a theater with a ballroom. And the B.B. King story???? Who knows who created that bit of myth?

You could well be correct, I'm certainly not suggesting it either way, however bare in mind the band likely played a ton of shows back then that we have no evidence for. There are certinaly gaps taht could be filled by local shows, especially opening shows for local bands or forgotten bands. If they were in Detroit (as they were of course) then there is always a chance they played there but there is no evidence any more?
Have you asked Dennis or Neal or their recollections?

[GNDM]

OK boys.....

After checking dozens of websites and blogs, I have reached this final conclusion. The Alice Cooper Band never played at Detroit's original Grande Ballroom - a venue played by many famous RnR icons in the late 60's. It seems they may have played one or two nights in October of 1969 at the Grande Riviera Theater just down the street from the ballroom. A beautiful theater - but not the iconic Grande. My final bit of evidence comes from an individual who asked Alice about playing at the Grande....and Alice mentions seeing movies there. Obviously he is not referring to the Grande Ballroom which was built for dancing and live music.

The only problem with this discovery is Alice's participation in the documentary film "Louder than Love" in which, he claims to have played there. (One of his quotes: "The rest of the world was on 10 - the Grande was on 11.") He seems to have formed a recollection out of 'the vapors'....or he confused a theater with a ballroom. And the B.B. King story???? Who knows who created that bit of myth?

You could well be correct, I'm certainly not suggesting it either way, however bare in mind the band likely played a ton of shows back then that we have no evidence for. There are certinaly gaps taht could be filled by local shows, especially opening shows for local bands or forgotten bands. If they were in Detroit (as they were of course) then there is always a chance they played there but there is no evidence any more?
Have you asked Dennis or Neal or their recollections?

Neal recalls playing with the Who at a Detroit show....which could be either the Eastown or the Grande Riviera. The later is a confirmed show. (several witnesses). The Who played the original Grande but that was in the spring of 68...not a match for the band at that time.

I'm going to ask Dennis at some point. He has said before that his 'Grande memories' are not clear, that he recalls the Eastown clearly (he should they played about a dozen dates there)...but the Grande is fuzzy.

Two possible reasons for Alice thinking he was there: A. Perhaps he went to a concert as a ''citizen'',or B. He remembers playing some place called the Grande and thought he played at the original one. The odd thing is - if you were living in Detroit in the late sixties, and were a musician...you'd certainly know of the Grande Ballroom. Perhaps this simply can be chalked up to 40+ years and too many memories to sort out.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Perhaps this simply can be chalked up to 40+ years and too many memories to sort out.

I think it can definitely "be chalked up" to that. It wouldn't be the first time he or anyone else in the band has conflated events or stories. One thing I learned a long time ago is that it's rather unreasonable to expect these people who have led the kind of lives they have led, to have perfect recall even of significant places or events. I also agree that it's still highly likely the band performed at both venues but we'll probably never know for certain.

[GNDM]

The B.B. King story:

This story has been passed along for decades. Russ Gibb, the promoter at the Grande even ''uses it'' in his tales of the Grande.

Supposedly, both the ACG and BB King were booked on the same show at the Grande. The story revolves around which performer would close the show and which would perform in front of them. The story has had different renditions from Alice, BB, and Russ Gibb on how the problem was resolved....but the problem is: there is no evidence that the two played on the same bill at the Grande. I wish there was...but it simply could be an old war story that has survived the years, in various forms, but never really occurred.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

but this is still one of the best (non-solo) Alice Cooper sites around.
.

Or "the mouthpiece of Alice and Shep" like you called it on Shiny Dime last week.

[GNDM]

but this is still one of the best (non-solo) Alice Cooper sites around.
.

Or "the mouthpiece of Alice and Shep" like you called it on Shiny Dime last week.

It can be both. The History and Discography are good for the ACG fans. The forum....well, you added my quote. Thank you for that. But I am sure The Watcher already saw it. lmao

[crazylittlechild]

Ha

Just when I thought everyone in the playground was playing nicely together.

Though Andy and GNDM were bonding.

[A_MichaelUK]

>It can be both. The History and Discography are good for the ACG fans. The forum....well, you added my quote.

That was nice attempt at back - pedalling but I'm sure the owner and moderators appreciate your kind words for all they work they do and the money spent keeping this site and the forums functioning.

> But I am sure The Watcher already saw it. lmao

Well Si must have done because he belongs to that page too. He must have been thrilled when he saw that.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Though Andy and GNDM were bonding.

From my point of view and up until February, I didn't have any issue with him and I'm still not sure that I do. It was he that (since that time) has suddenly developed an obsession with the original band and an antipathy towards certain individuals from which has ensued what appears to be some considerable bitterness. I honestly don't know what that is about. As I say, for several years, we shared a great deal of friendly, private correspondence then something changed. I don't know what.

[Si]

>

> But I am sure The Watcher already saw it. lmao

Well Si must have done because he belongs to that page too. He must have been thrilled when he saw that.

I'm pretty sick of all the back and forth BS. It seems such a waste of energy. But if I was that offended by Bob's comments I DO have the power to ban him from here, as he has done to people on his facebok group. I have no interest in doing that if I don`t have to. If that is what he thinks then fine. I actually think that comments like that and others on the facebook page do him more harm then good, but he's free to speak his mind.

Saying that this site is the "mouthpiece of Alice and Shep' is pretty silly. I have occasional contact with Shep and once a year or so may chat briefly with Alice at a show but that's about it. While it is true that if requested I will happily change or remove things that very rarely ever happens and when it does it's generally for a vaild reason (ie info released before it's supposed to be).

If you want to describe anyone as "a mouthpiece of Shep and Alice" it would be better aimed at either Kyler (who of course works directly for Alice) or Andy, and I think that is a good thing to have such people here to set things straight. Many posters here have little knowledge of what happens 'behind the scenes' (me included generally speaking) and sometimes something that sounds like a great idea at first is in reality not such a great idea due to things they don't know

How is it that people should be allowed to bash Alice or Shep with impunity? If Bob and others are allowed to support the original band over solo Alice why are others not allowed to take the opposite stance if that is their wish? I'm as much a fan of the original band as anyone here. They were responsible for the best material ever released under the AC name and arguably the greatest string of albums by any artist ever. It is one of the main reasons the site even exists.
But in reality it is Alice and Shep that have kept the name in the public eye. I certainly don't agree with everything that has been done over the years (I still think all the covers (live/album) recently is a bad idea) but I do try to have an understanding of the reality today which some people seem to purposely avoid addressing.

While I may disagree, sometimes strongly, with some things Bob (and others) say I don't have any ill will towards them because of it. And I hope there isn't any towards me from them.

[A_MichaelUK]

>If you want to describe anyone as "a mouthpiece of Shep and Alice" it would be better aimed at either Kyler (who of course works directly for Alice) or Andy,

Even though I'm not.

[Si]

>If you want to describe anyone as "a mouthpiece of Shep and Alice" it would be better aimed at either Kyler (who of course works directly for Alice) or Andy,

Even though I'm not.

I know, but you have knowledge and personal connections which put you in that situation often eg the embargo on the book info.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I know, but you have knowledge and personal commenctions which put you in that situation often eg the embargo on the book info.

Yes. I think your post explained the situation quite well. I think only GNDM can explain his recent behaviour (if he chooses to).

[GNDM]

Si....apologies. Obviously my interests concerning Alice Cooper garner no interest here. And airing my personal complaints is something that is not needed, or is it desired, on this site. You and I know that my interest centers almost exclusively around the original band. Sadly, for me, this forum has been usurped by the younger 'solo' crowd. I was wrong to come here and air my personal grievances...especially since it only antagonizes people and accomplishes nothing.

So...like others...I'll fade away and continue to search for the true Alice Cooper 'entity' and await the repeal of the 'embargo'.

[wind_up_toy]

With all due respect, the first 5 words of your initial posts, and then your most recent post above really doesn't do much to endear you to the reader.

[Si]

this forum has been usurped by the younger 'solo' crowd.

And this is where I think you are wrong. I would guess as high as 80% of the people on this forum would have mainly if not exclusively ACG albums in the top five AC albums. That doesn`t stop them from liking later material as well.

There is nothing wrong with only being interested in the ACG years, it's generally my main interest as well (although I would extend that to '79), but it isn't compulsory to love everything the band did in the same way it isn`t compulsory to love everything solo Alice has done.

Alice's career is build on those early albums and shows, everyone knows that. I also doubt there is anyone posting here that isn`t well aware that it was a band back then. But what is the purpose of constantly being negative about anything NEW that happens? Could some things be better? Of course, but reality doesn`t always allow things to be how "the fans" want it to be.

The documentary is sure to mention that it was a band as they have (at least) interviews with Dennis and Neal included. Sam Dunn is VERY good at what he does and I can't see anyone allowing the producers of the movie to miss such a MAJOR fact in such a movie including Alice and Shep.
You may mean some of your statements as 'tongue in cheek' sarcasm but often that is not how they come across and that pisses some people off and tey confront you on it. That doesn`t mean they hate the ACG!

[patrick]

this forum has been usurped by the younger 'solo' crowd.

Alice's career is build on those early albums and shows, everyone knows that.
--------------
And it is precisely this fact that is keeping those songs, and in a way, the ACG itself alive. Suppose Alice hadn't been going on the way he did, I don't think we would be here on this site...
So I am always surprised to see this dispute between ACG- and Alice-solo fans, since they (Alice and ACG) are unseperatable imo..
I am an AC fan since 73 and to me AC is Alice solo but certainly also everything ACG related and as Si pointed out, the ACG albums are top, but Alice was a very important factor in that too.
And I am glad to have people here knowing a lot more than the average fan, sharing their info with us.