Mixed reactions

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:15 pm

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:You are lucky to find more than a couple of songs from his later albums played live. What's the point in recording them?
Because he WANTS to. It's what he does and has done for 40+ years.

Maybe it's not because he WANTS to but because he feels he HAS to. I think in the past the number of songs from a new album performed live has dwindled from 4 to 2.
Not much faith in the material or fear of no one knowing the stuff? I know he has said he doesn't go for nostalgia but live he seems to contradict this? How long has he been holding up that dumb crutch for 18?

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:21 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Who knows what percentage of the songs the casual fan knows

Those would be the songs they hear on 'classic rock' radio or in commercials or films.

>or even the more fervent fan.

By definition they would known all of them surely.

>I could maybe only name a few songs from ACAS.

Exactly. That makes you a casual fan of that album. Do you see how this works?

>What's the point in recording them?

He wants to and in fact as you often do, you stumble across an important point without realizing it and which relates to the other thread. If piracy continues they way it is, "What's the point in recording" any new songs? That would be for the other thread, though.

Who listens to classic rock stations? How often would you have to listen to hear a Cooper song anyway?

Again, piracy doesn't really affect new Alice Cooper albums. If people couldn't download are you seriously suggesting they would go out and buy ACAS in droves? You are living in the past.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:24 pm

Maybe it's not because he WANTS to but because he feels he HAS to.

What is wrong with that though. Is it so bad that an artist wants the audience to be satisfied?

>I think in the past the number of songs from a new album performed live has dwindled from 4 to 2.

So what? What is the point of playing unfamiliar material when anyone who is interested can hear the material online, usually for free?

>Not much faith in the material or fear of no one knowing the stuff?

The latter. Why would he play songs hardly anyone knows?

>I know he has said he doesn't go for nostalgia but live he seems to contradict this?

The audience don't see a contradiction. They hear those old songs and they go home happy.

>How long has he been holding up that dumb crutch for 18?

About the same length of time he has been wearing "that dumb" make - up, "that dumb" top - hat, using "that dumb" snake, using "that dumb" guillotine, using "that dumb" sword, using those "dumb" balloons", performing those "dumb" songs, using "that dumb" fake money and all the other "dumb" things he does. What is your point? Are you the same Andy Blackhurst from Liverpool who used to be one of the biggest Alice Cooper fans I ever met?

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:46 pm

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. What's your point?

He has played unfamiliar material in the past. How many of us bought Special Forces? The point of playing a song, you are proud to have written and recorded, live that some are not familiar with is lost on you then? Do you have any faith in any of the new stuff or are you solely for the oldies nostalgia stuff?

I am still an Alice Cooper fan of the old band, 80-84 and some of the later solo albums. I have mentioned this more than once.I thought you read and scrutinize all my posts. You must be a casual fan of mine

Si · Post by Si » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:52 pm

pitkin88 wrote:I thought you read and scrutinize all my posts. You must be a casual fan of mine

If he "read and scrutinized" ALL your posts surely that would make him a die-hard fan

pitkin88 · Post by **pitkin88** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:57 pm

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:I thought you read and scrutinize all my posts. You must be a casual fan of mine
If he "read and scrutinized" ALL your posts surely that would make him a die-hard fan

Well I did say thought. Anyway fellas I have things to do but have enjoyed the debate. I do have to respond to one of Amucks posts but that will have to wait.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:59 pm

>I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. What's your point?

I didn't say you did. I just asked you what your point was. What was it?

>He has played unfamiliar material in the past.

We are not talking about "the past" though! How many more times are we going to have this discussion? The record industry is different now and you know that.

>live that some are not familiar with is lost on you then?

>Do you have any faith in any of the new stuff or are you solely for the oldies nostalgia stuff?

It isn't about a lack of "faith" - it is about not wanting to take a risk. You can accuse him of being too cautious or pandering to casual fans if you want, I'm not going to argue any of those (I would disagree, but I'm not going to argue) but it has nothing to do with "faith" or a lack of it. If he had no "faith" in it, he wouldn't record it and release it!

>I am still an Alice Cooper fan of the old band, 80-84 and some of the later solo albums.

You don't sound like one though. Almost everything you have ever posted here is laced with bitterness and cynicism. I don't mean scepticism. I do mean cynicism.

> You must be a casual fan of mine

I am a big fan of the fellow I used to know. The new version has been re - mixed without the original tapes being used.

kosciuskouk · Post by **kosciuskouk** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:21 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:You are lucky to find more than a couple of songs from his later albums played live. What's the point in recording them?
Because he WANTS to. It's what he does and has done for 40+ years.

Maybe it's not because he WANTS to but because he feels he HAS to. I think in the past the number of songs from a new album performed live has dwindled from 4 to 2.
Not much faith in the material or fear of no one knowing the stuff? I know he has said he doesn't go for nostalgia but live he seems to contradict this? How long has he been holding up that dumb crutch for 18?

In an interview (late 80's iirc) Alice was asked if he gets bored 'playing all the old songs every performance'and why he plays them .........his answer was if he saw Jimi Hendrix and he didn't play Foxy Lady he'd be pissed off however many times he might have heard it live before.

As for the original point of the thread....maybe Alice sees the Motley Crue fanbase as a target audience for new fans to his shows,as most of them would probably have been too young for the ACG?

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:36 pm

>Who listens to classic rock stations?

You are so incredibly out of touch on so many different issues. As a matter of fact, "classic rock stations" are growing in popularity. That is why there are so many of them but you don't seem to have noticed that.

> How often would you have to listen to hear a Cooper song anyway?

Why don't you tune in and find out?

>Again, piracy doesn't really affect new Alice Cooper albums.

As the people at Eagle or Universal that.

>If people couldn't download are you seriously suggesting they would go out and buy ACAS in droves?

No, not "in droves" - you have an amazing talent for exaggerating things.

> You are living in the past.

Almost all artists have seen a significant decline in their sales. Do That includes famous artists and less famous artists and if you don't believe that, then you are the one "living in the past" which is unfortunate.

Daggers & Contracts · Post by **Daggers & Contracts** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:59 am

As far as playing "Current Albums" in their entirety. When Lou Reed (and yes it was years ago) toured his New York album, and it was his most popular in years up to that point. Lou came on stage and announced that they were to play the album and then return to play the "Hits". A young lady in the 1st few rows may have missed that but as the band played on she my have been requesting a song (or two) and distracting Lou. His comment will always remain with me because it was too cool. "We're doing the album here, Honey." He and the band continued and it was a great show!

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:47 am

One point regarding the setlists that I don't think has been addressed by other posters. A setlist does not succeed or fail on whether material is unfamiliar or familiar or whether it caters for "casuals" or "diehards". It is very rare for a rock show not to follow a quite conventional structure whoever the artist.
One of the key factors of a successful set is the pacing and dynamics. Every great performer-and I include Alice here-considers how to space the hits, the ballads, the "singalongs", the "clapalongs" which lead usually to the biggest anthemic songs for the climax and encore. Those factors too are restrictions Alice has to work with. Moving beyond the confines of this tried and tested and most importantly successful formula is to risk a flat concert.
If hypothetically a show opened with "Elected" "NMMNG" "BDB" "Eighteen""SO""Poison" plus a few more and finished with "Aspirin Damage", "Who Do You Think We Are", "Pain" and "Zorro's Ascent" it would finish on a "low" rather than a "high". Moreover, in the case of the latter four songs, even spacing them throughout a set with the conventional structure referred to above, risks losing the momentum which is sometimes difficult to regain in the songs that follow.The performers on stage feel these "flat spots" as much as the audience!

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:56 am

>Those factors too are restrictions Alice has to work with.

Everything you wrote is one hundred per cent correct and I think I did allude to them as well. The problem we have on this forum is that we have people here who aren't in his position, have never been in his position and will never be in his position but they still think they know what to do better than he does.

mestreech · Post by **mestreech** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:40 am

Robbie wrote:One point regarding the setlists that I don't think has been addressed by other posters. A setlist does not succeed or fail on whether material is unfamiliar or familiar or whether it caters for "casuals" or "diehards". It is very rare for a rock show not to follow a quite conventional structure whoever the artist.
One of the key factors of a successful set is the pacing and dynamics. Every great performer-and I include Alice here-considers how to space the hits, the ballads, the "singalongs", the "clapalongs" which lead usually to the biggest anthemic songs for the climax and encore. Those factors too are restrictions Alice has to work with. Moving beyond the confines of this tried and tested and most importantly successful formula is to risk a flat concert.
If hypothetically a show opened with "Elected" "NMMNG" "BDB" "Eighteen""SO""Poison" plus a few more and finished with "Aspirin Damage", "Who Do You Think We Are", "Pain" and "Zorro's Ascent" it would finish on a "low" rather than a "high". Moreover, in the case of the latter four songs, even spacing them throughout a set with the conventional structure referred to above, risks losing the momentum which is sometimes difficult to regain in the songs that follow.The performers on stage feel these "flat spots" as much as the audience!

So basicly you say that Alice has always to keep playing the hits + maybe some new or unknown numbers.
Strange others groups have not that rule like Springsteen/Young/ Bowie/U2/ etc.
With a setlist you suggest Alice can finally go to the GOLDEN OLDIES groups but that's my opinion.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:55 am

Toronto Bob wrote:No

He may have apologized but a racist uses that word when angered, non-racists don't. Someone also mentioned that comment is old (I think it dates to 1996/97). It maybe a few years back but it's the ninties not the fifties and Sixx was a full grown adult when he said it - no excuses. Simple as that.

When you get angry at a person - do you hone in on that person's race? religion? sexual orientation? Or do you see them just as a person that has pissed you off? Your answer will tell you something about yourself.

That word has a terrible history and anyone who ignores that history is a racist and a dummy.

So when a black man reclaims the word like in Gangsta Rap he's a racist too?

I'm not saying using the N word is right, but to brand everyone who has ever used it as a racist as you have branded Nikki Sixx is pathetic.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:10 pm

>Strange others groups have not that rule like Springsteen/Young/ Bowie/U2/ etc.

They have a bigger audience than Alice does though. They can afford to take that risk and as for Bowie, he did that in 1995 and the audiences were rather dissatisfied.

>With a setlist you suggest Alice can finally go to the GOLDEN OLDIES groups but that's my opinion.

Maybe so.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:50 pm

Mestreech wrote:So basicly you say that Alice has always to keep playing the hits + maybe some new or unknown numbers.
Strange others groups have not that rule like Springsteen/Young/ Bowie/U2/ etc.

Yes because of the need to provide a successful concert for his audience as it stands in 2014. The other artists you cite are in my opinion in a different league in terms of ticket sales and draw etc. as Andy recognises in his post.
Incidentally, the conventions of the show format which restricts the setlist now also restricted him at the peak of his solo career and with the original band.They played the hits too!!

Toronto Bob · Post by **Toronto Bob** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:37 pm

steven_crayn wrote:
Toronto Bob wrote:No

He may have apologized but a racist uses that word when angered, non-racists don't. Someone also mentioned that comment is old (I think it dates to 1996/97). It maybe a few years back but it's the ninties not the fifties and Sixx was a full grown adult when he said it - no excuses. Simple as that.

When you get angry at a person - do you hone in on that person's race? religion? sexual orientation? Or do you see them just as a person that has pissed you off? Your answer will tell you something about yourself.

That word has a terrible history and anyone who ignores that history is a racist and a dummy.
So when a black man reclaims the word like in Gangsta Rap he's a racist too?

I'm not saying using the N word is right, but to brand everyone who has ever used it as a racist as you have branded Nikki Sixx is pathetic.

If a person uses the N word in the same angry way that Sizz did then sure that person runs the risk as being viewed as racist. Not sure what the big controversy is. The word is loaded and has serious history on this side of the pond and that is why it makes a big difference as to who uses it. When a gangsta rapper uses it, they are not a racist. I may disagree with them "reclaiming" the word and don't think it's in good taste but nonetheless it's different when they use it than if your average attendee at a Tea Party gathering uses it. Don' want to get all political here but I'm sure you recognize that. No not anyone who lets the word escape from their lips is automatically a member of the KKK, but Sixx's behaviour could only come from a person with a racist heart.

kevinuk81 · Post by **kevinuk81** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:48 pm

Axl Rose used the 'N' word in the song One In A Million, are you calling him racist? And don't forget that not everyone in G 'n' R was white.

Lucius Morthem · Post by **Lucius Morthem** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:26 pm

multimegareply

1st of all: Axl Rose indeed is (or was) a racist!

2nd: I Think we all take too much harm of a word. I Know the N word is a bad and forbidden word. But It is an expression to offend not an entire population of people but someone in special. The black community (don't know how to call them without being called a racist bastard) has allowed Quentin Tarantino an his actors to use the word in order to make realistic movies and ALSO to make the N word a less forbidden word and blah blah blah. There are so many forms of racism and violence and everyone makes themselves blind just because they don't want to see reality but as the N word is something more obvious everybody makes a full fuss about it.

3rd. Regarding setlist and all of that I'll put you an example of why they can't do a rarrities tour

Metallica has an incredible large fan base. Did you know that they are doing shows "a la carta" The fans who buys they tickets, votes for the 18 songs they want to hear and Metallica will play them.

Sold out shows in Southamerica(aand other countries in Europe)
And guess which songs are in the setlist! THE HITS!

THERE WON'T BE AN ALICE COOPER TOUR OF RARE SONGS BECAUSE IT WON'T SELL Because with a band with a large (incredibly) large fan base as Metallica. They all still ask for hits.

There are no comparisons with tours of the 70's or 80's It's reality of a well known band and a tour with the shows being held in a few months. It's what's happening NOW and If it doesn't work with Metallica, it won't work with other bands

Also i'd love to remember all the people who complain about setlist about the facebook list of songs in which we voted for the songs we'd love to hear in the tour and if you remember well the hits were top voted there too.

I Think I rest my case for now

If I made a mistake in ANYTHING( grammar included as I'm not a native English speaker) I'd love that you make me know about it :D

Lucius Morthem · Post by **Lucius Morthem** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:29 pm

Also in defense of Nikki Sixx

tHE USE OF THE N WORD COULD COME OF A PERSON WITH A RACIST HEART

Or from a person with no good education who had barely learnt about good and wrong as Nikki .

He left school. He was a Junkie. Imagine someone like that completely angry, He might be an asshole for the use of the word but that doesn't make him a racist

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