wolgangs vault

[mestreech]

Hi,

on WOLFGANS'S VAULT there are two video shows of Alice.
The 1972 show is only 3 songs and there is the complete? 1981 Passiac show(special forces tour).

When I play them they are in black/white. Is this normal or do I have to become a paid member to get them in color?

Maybe any of the sickies has a subscription on Wolgans Vault?

[SickThings]

They were recorded in black and white.

Hunter

[A_MichaelUK]

>on WOLFGANS'S VAULT there are two video shows of Alice.
The 1972 show is only 3 songs and there is the complete? 1981 Passiac show(special forces tour).

Although that site would claim to the contrary, as far as I am aware they do not own the rights to that material in which case those are of dubious legality. This means anyone who pays a subscription to that site so as to have access to that material is going to see that money go to that site not the artists or composers of that material. Almost none (and probably none) of that material came from a Bill Graham production (which is how they claim they own that material).

[SickThings]

Yeah, their claims to the rights to all of that stuff has always seemed completely bogus to me. I can see that they legally owned the physical posters they (used to?) sell, but reproductions of those and all of those concert recordings...no way. Many of the live shows are King Biscuit recordings, and AFAIK, Bill Graham never had anything to do with King Biscuit (even if that would somehow mean this current company has legal access to that stuff).

Hunter

[pitkin88]

>on WOLFGANS'S VAULT there are two video shows of Alice.
The 1972 show is only 3 songs and there is the complete? 1981 Passiac show(special forces tour).

Although that site would claim to the contrary, as far as I am aware they do not own the rights to that material in which case those are of dubious legality. This means anyone who pays a subscription to that site so as to have access to that material is going to see that money go to that site not the artists or composers of that material. Almost none (and probably none) of that material came from a Bill Graham production (which is how they claim they own that material).

I take your point but I seriously doubt anyone is losing sleep over this. How much cash could we seriously be talking about. Fans should just enjoy.

[A_MichaelUK]

>How much cash could we seriously be talking about.

I don't think that's a question for you or for me either. The fact remains that the musicians performing on that recording are more than likely not getting paid whereas the site that is hosting this material is. That is quite an important principle.

[Toronto Bob]

Important to you maybe.

[SickThings]

I'm sure it's important to all of the musicians and songwriters being ripped off. The amount of money is irrelevant. These people (try to) make a living by their talents, so any revenue stream is important to them. Of course, any kind of legal remedy requires a lot of money that most couldn't afford to spend, so the site goes on.

There's right, and there's wrong, and that distinction ought to matter to everyone. Sadly, that's obviously not true in today's world of "I want it now and I don't want to pay for it."

Hunter

[A_MichaelUK]

>Important to you maybe.

Do you lock your doors at night or do you allow people to walk in and steal?

[pitkin88]

Do you watch Youtube Andy? If so you are condoning stealing.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Do you watch Youtube Andy?

Yes, I watch official artist channels or official channels for overseas television shows. I also use Spotify and am considering joining Netflix for the same reason.

[pitkin88]

You are so full of it. Official artist channels only...yeah right. You should start a rant about cd burners and dvd burners. Maybe we could have a whip around here to pay the owners the $20 bucks they are missing from Wolfgangs Vault. Toronto Bob can I put you down for a buck?

[A_MichaelUK]

>You are so full of it. Official artist channels only...yeah right.

You asked me and I answered honestly. There is nothing I know of on YouTube that I would want to listen to that Spotify doesn't have.

[Toronto Bob]

>Important to you maybe.

Do you lock your doors at night or do you allow people to walk in and steal?

I hardly need a lecture from someone who sold bootleg cassettes. I never have sold anything like that - ever. I've never resold one piece of copyrighted material. Not a used copy of BDB, not an old Hey Stoopid cd - nothing. So take your pieties and stuff 'em.

It's unfortunate the brilliant business minds didn't foresee (or didn't care enough)the possible revenue streams of all these old taped and filmed concerts and secure the "rights".

I buy all the worthwhile AC official releases - this one is worthwhile, I would of gladly purched this from them. Alas some people were too busy with more important matters to take care of business.

To the poster who made the broad brush stroke "I want it now and I don't want to pay for it" well there are those people but they don't show up on the balance sheet anyway so who cares. But you're not talking about me because if you were, you are so sorely wrong it wouldn't be worth having any sort of back and forth.

Off to reap the rewards of being a WV member - toodles.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I hardly need a lecture from someone who sold bootleg cassettes.

Does doing it less than ten times almost three decades ago count? If so, guilty as charged.

> I never have sold anything like that - ever. I've never resold one piece of copyrighted material. Not a used copy of BDB, not an old Hey Stoopid cd - nothing.

That isn't what I asked. I asked you if you leave your doors and windows open, because if the principle I referred to isn't important to you as you implied, then presumably you don't mind people entering your home and stealing your property. I just want to check.

>It's unfortunate the brilliant business minds didn't foresee (or didn't care enough)the possible revenue streams of all these old taped and filmed concerts and secure the "rights".

Obviously, you are as clueless as usual. They don't HAVE to do ANYTHING. The rights to a performance rests with the performers unless they sign them away. The rights to the Passaic performance did not transfer.

>To the poster who made the broad brush stroke "I want it now and I don't want to pay for it" well there are those people but they don't show up on the balance sheet anyway so who cares.

DID YOU REALLY JUST WRITE THAT?! If that is true, how is it that offical sales of recorded music have fallen so much?! Why don't you ask some of these musicians that you claim to love so much and ask them how they feel about their income being almost decimated by piracy?

>But you're not talking about me because if you were, you are so sorely wrong it wouldn't be worth having any sort of back and forth.

I haven't accused you of anything. I haven't accused anyone of anything and neither have I told anyone what they should or shouldn't do. All I did was provide some background to that particular site.

>Off to reap the rewards of being a WV member - toodles.

Make sure you leave your door open.

[pitkin88]

Thank God we have you to protect us Amuk.

[Toronto Bob]

The "doors unlocked" analogy doesn't even remotely work. Those musicians were paid for the night's work that they did (I'm assuming Alice's company paid the band). So they got paid. Does the sound guy working the board still get paid? Or did he collect his check sometime later that month and that's it. How about the camera guys? The tape ops? They all made that video possible - without them nothing happens. The performance is done - lost in time. Only through their efforts does it still exist. Does everyone get to earn a taste of their work done years ago - or do only a select few get to enjoy that privilege?

Diminishing music sales aren't on me bro. I'm still buying cds and new vinyl regularly. You want your boy to earn? Release the goods - I'll buy. If not... STFU, I'm listening to the music I want to hear.

And the fact still remains - I've never earned a dime on reselling material that I had no right to sell - and you did. I think I'm on solid moral ground here.



BTW - just watched the Passaic '81 show - love that period of AC. Someone in the camp really should make an effort and acquire that viz along with the Glasgow show master tapes and make a cool box set release. I'd buy it. Of course it may require effort and such something Shout Factory couldn't pull off.

[A_MichaelUK]

The "doors unlocked" analogy doesn't even remotely work. Those musicians were paid for the night's work that they did (I'm assuming Alice's company paid the band).

Yes but you don't know if they signed legal release for that performance to be filmed and sold.

>Does the sound guy working the board still get paid?

He would be entitled to be.

>Or did he collect his check sometime later that month and that's it. How about the camera guys? The tape ops? They all made that video possible - without them nothing happens.

The same applies. If someone is selling it, they are entitled to be paid unless they sign a legal release saying otherwise.

>The performance is done - lost in time.

The law doesn't work like that.

> Does everyone get to earn a taste of their work done years ago - or do only a select few get to enjoy that privilege?

That isn't my point. The point is that sites like this and others are making money off the efforts of others - that is the real issue.

>Diminishing music sales aren't on me bro. I'm still buying cds and new vinyl regularly.

That would be like saying it doesn't matter if you steal a loaf of bread at the same time as buying another loaf.

>STFU, I'm listening to the music I want to hear.

Why don't you write to Dennis Dunaway and tell him to "STFU" when others make money off his efforts and he does not? Will you do that?

>And the fact still remains - I've never earned a dime on reselling material that I had no right to sell - and you did.

Who said I "earned a dime", though?

>I think I'm on solid moral ground here.

We know what your morality is. You have made that clear and by the way, no - one is making a judgement. However, again, you've made it clear you don't care whether the musicians you claim to love so much get paid or not, just as long as you can hear what you want.

>just watched the Passaic '81 show - love that period of AC. Someone in the camp really should make an effort and acquire that viz

Again, you are making a huge assumption without knowing the facts. As a matter of fact, "the camp" already has a copy of it.

>along with the Glasgow show master tapes and make a cool box set release.

There have been a few discussions about that in the past and it isn't impossible that could happen.

>Of course it may require effort and such something Shout Factory couldn't pull off.

Again, you make little sense, as Shout Factory are specialists in releasing material of this nature. I would have thought you would know that.

[Toronto Bob]

clueless

[A_MichaelUK]

>clueless

Such a devastating and brilliant response.