Bob Greene, Billion Dollar Babies and the Break Up

[guilty65]

I am sorry if this has been brought up before. I researched this site and saw nothing).

Something came across my mind as I have been doing a lot of reading on Alice these last few weeks.

Could it be possible that Bob Greene's book B$B's was setup on purpose with out Greene or the band knowing about it. A set up by Shep Gordon.
Shep had to know that would have been the final nail in the "Coffin".
I mean who would let someone enter their tour, write about exactly what they saw. Without any one in management, or the artist having the final read through before their approval to release it.
Maybe this was a way to Split the band up Setting Alice up for a future with out the original band.

Just a thought...

[A_MichaelUK]

>Could it be possible that Bob Greene's book B$B's was setup on purpose with out Greene or the band knowing about it. A set up by Shep Gordon.

If you believe in conspiracy theories, then yes.

>Shep had to know that would have been the final nail in the "Coffin".

That would assume that he knew what everyone was going to say Greene, though. There are many things you can say about Shep but I'm pretty sure he has no psychic power.

>I mean who would let someone enter their tour, write about exactly what they saw.

Anyone who would expect people to use their common sense when speaking to a journalist perhaps. However, you can't have it both ways - if Shep had insisted on having final approval, he would have been accused of being controlling but by not insisting on final approval, he is accused of deliberatly manipulating the situation.

>Maybe this was a way to Split the band up Setting Alice up for a future with out the original band.

That is one of at least two conspiracy theories. As powerful as Shep was back then, he wasn't that powerful.

[Toronto Bob]

I think that maybe what happened. I can see Shep wanting to just manage 1 "star" and saw an opportunity to further put a wedge between AC and the rest. All speculation but it makes sense.

I had posted soemthing similiar a while back and got firmly denounced for it.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think that maybe what happened. I can see Shep wanting to just manage 1 "star" and saw an opportunity to further put a wedge between AC and the rest. All speculation but it makes sense.

Again, Shep is not so powerful that he knew exactly what kind of information Greene would be given.

>All speculation but it makes sense.

Everything does when you don't have all sides of the story or weren't actually there or have spoken at length with people who were.

>I had posted soemthing similiar a while back and got firmly denounced for it

That only happened after you made it clear that you were unable or unwilling to consider the alternative.

[Toronto Bob]

It wouldn't have to be a question of Shep having the "power". It could be a case of recognizing an opportunity and taking advantage of it. Remember the itself says it was Shep who suggested to the author to write a book. BG was initially going to just write a column for the paper he worked at.

[A_MichaelUK]

>>It wouldn't have to be a question of Shep having the "power". It could be a case of recognizing an opportunity and taking advantage of it.

Why is that he gets all the blame? What about Alice’s role in all this? Even if the book was a factor (and I always said that it was in that it didn’t exactly help matters), there were bigger issues. I am not denying that the book emphasised some of that, but again, there were many factors involved. Even if the book had never existed, the issues that were there still would have.

>That isn’t what Remember the itself says it was Shep who suggested to the author to write a book.

You have somewhat contradicted yourself, in that in your first sentence, you wrote "It could be a case of recognizing an opportunity and taking advantage of it." implying that once the book was out, Shep took "advantage of it" but now you're implying he orchestrated the whole thing from the beginning as a result of his suggestion. So what if he did? He was suggesting all kinds of things back then, all of which were centred around getting the band as much publicity as possible. If anything, he was pretty naive in that he thought Greene would not reveal as much as he did. In fact, Neal Smith and Alice pretty much have said exactly that.

>BG was initially going to just write a column for the paper he worked at.

So what? Are you saying that Shep orchestrated the whole thing from the beginning (as guilty65 suggests) so that he could take “advantage of it” or are you saying that once the book was out and he saw what was in it, he took “advantage of it”? Which is it? Those are two different things although each of those is a conspiracy theory. Also, you’re in danger of reviving a debate which has been discussed here before, so unless you have any new information to share, we can all save ourselves some time and read that old thread instead.

[pitkin88]

I don't believe the book was a big factor. Who read the bloody thing? It was near to impossible to get hold of in England. Not sure what the US print run was but I don't think it was flying off the shelves.

The split got only a couple of lines mention in the UK. Maybe the NME or Sounds I don't remember.

[Toronto Bob]

I don't believe the book was a big factor. Who read the bloody thing? It was near to impossible to get hold of in England. Not sure what the US print run was but I don't think it was flying off the shelves.

The split got only a couple of lines mention in the UK. Maybe the NME or Sounds I don't remember.

I think the band members reading it would have had the desired effect of driving a (larger) wedge between AC and the rest. I doubt public opinion about the book would weigh in on any decison to go solo.

As far as Shep getting all the blame - well maybe he and Alice conspired who knows? It's not like we'll ever get an honest answer about the topic from either party.

[pitkin88]

I don't believe the book was a big factor. Who read the bloody thing? It was near to impossible to get hold of in England. Not sure what the US print run was but I don't think it was flying off the shelves.

The split got only a couple of lines mention in the UK. Maybe the NME or Sounds I don't remember.

I think the band members reading it would have had the desired effect of driving a (larger) wedge between AC and the rest. I doubt public opinion about the book would weigh in on any decison to go solo.

As far as Shep getting all the blame - well maybe he and Alice conspired who knows? It's not like we'll ever get an honest answer about the topic from either party.

Ok I get where the original poster was coming from. Do we have a release date for the book? I seriously doubt the book was a Shep set up. I think they probably all thought let it come out warts and all. How much of the book is wholly factual who knows. I think I saw a copy with Glen autographing " piece of dog shit " book and remember Neal saying the book was exaggerated.

[GNDM]

I don't think 'conspiracy' is the right word. Looking at it if I was in Shep Gordon's shoes, I'd see a no lose scenario. regarding the book If nothing else, you get the name (Alice Cooper) out there....and there is no such thing as bad publicity. If it upsets the chemistry of the band....I don't think he was that overly concerned by that point.

Nothing exists in a vacuum, and I doubt Shep spent much time "orchestrating" a breakup. I think he saw what was coming, he hooked on to the "Name" and did not need to do much but wait. If he had seriously wanted the band to continue, he would have taken steps to have that take place. A sit down with the band, inform them that Glen was being replaced and that after a break...the next tour and album would begin. He did not do that.....thus the end of the band via natural causes.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I don't believe the book was a big factor.

I agree although as I said, it didn't help matters.

>Not sure what the US print run was but I don't think it was flying off the shelves.

It was also published as a paperback, if that's any indication.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think the band members reading it would have had the desired effect of driving a (larger) wedge between AC and the rest.

WHO "desired" it?! I would go so far as to say I doubt that Shep has even ever read the book.

>As far as Shep getting all the blame - well maybe he and Alice conspired who knows?

So now we're back to the conspiracy theory.

>It's not like we'll ever get an honest answer about the topic from either party.

That may be true but it isn't like we're owed it.

[A_MichaelUK]

> Do we have a release date for the book?

It was published in 1974, I think.

>I think they probably all thought let it come out warts and all.

I don't think it was that. I really do think that nobody thought it would reveal as much as it did.

>How much of the book is wholly factual who knows.

I think it most of it ( and probably all of it) is, but that isn't really the issue. It is more about how incidents were either faked by the certain members of the band once they they came to the conclusion that Greene might be gullible and about he put a greater emphasis on negative events rather than on positive events. It would be fair to say that as interesting it is and written very well, there have to be doubts as to how balanced it is. This site has some information on it as well.

[pitkin88]

I'll have to give it another read. I picked up the hardback w pics intact for $100 which was a nice price IMHO.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Looking at it if I was in Shep Gordon's shoes, I'd see a no lose scenario.

I disagree. There was actually a great deal to "lose". This was one of the biggest bands in the world and a generator of huge amounts of money. Why, on that basis, would he actively encourage the band to disintegrate? That makes no sense, Would it not make more sense to ensure the band continued? Is money not the reason why some bands actually may get criticized for NOT breaking - up or for eventually reuniting?

If it upsets the chemistry of the band....I don't think he was that overly concerned by that point.

I don't disagree.

>I think he saw what was coming, he hooked on to the "Name" and did not need to do much but wait.

That isn't really the way it happened and that reminds me that with all these discussions over the years, there is one HUGE point that some people appear to have forgotten. It isn't that the band broke up - it is that they did not reconvene as Neal claims they were supposed to. That is the part many forget. Again, without re - heating a tired old thread, Shep maintains that rather than make solo albums, the band should reconvene for one more album and a tour. As I understand it, at least one member of the band insisted on making a solo album, so Alice did as well. By the time it came to think about reconvening, Alice wasn't interested and no doubt for a variety of reasons.

> A sit down with the band, inform them that Glen was being replaced and that after a break...

That is pretty much what he claims he did do, but, again, at least one member of the band wanted to make solo album instead. That isn't Shep's fault.

[Mr.Bluelegs]

You have to remember that these guys toured, wrote, & recorded almost non-stop for 3 to 4 years. They were young, successful, and making a lot of money as well as indulging in certain recreational practices. They really did need a break from the unbelievable pace. Maybe a greatest hits album should have been released at the end of 1973 to give them a break and MOL (or any follow up) to BDB should have been released mid 1974. It doesn't matter at this point, but their output was amazing in their short span.

[SickThings]

>Looking at it if I was in Shep Gordon's shoes, I'd see a no lose scenario.

I disagree. There was actually a great deal to "lose".

I think he meant letting Bob Greene write the book was a "no lose scenario." Letting him write the book doesn't mean he expected the band to disintegrate.

Hunter

[GNDM]

[quote="A_MichaelUK"]>Looking at it if I was in Shep Gordon's shoes, I'd see a no lose scenario.

I disagree. There was actually a great deal to "lose". This was one of the biggest bands in the world and a generator of huge amounts of money. Why, on that basis, would he actively encourage the band to disintegrate? That makes no sense, Would it not make more sense to ensure the band continued? Is money not the reason why some bands actually may get criticized for NOT breaking - up or for eventually reuniting?

A. "Losing" (as it concerns this type of book) might be a worry for Gary Lewis and the Playboys...but this is the Alice Cooper band...the bad boys of rock. One could actually see a dirty expose as a positive occurence, fan-wise, even if it hurt band chemistry.
B. The bands' continuation? Don't think it was a mandatory thing by that time. Alice was the face of the band. The rest might have been perceived as more trouble than they were worth.

>I think he saw what was coming, he hooked on to the "Name" and did not need to do much but wait.

That isn't really the way it happened and that reminds me that with all these discussions over the years, there is one HUGE point that some people appear to have forgotten. It isn't that the band broke up - it is that they did not reconvene as Neal claims they were supposed to. That is the part many forget. Again, without re - heating a tired old thread, Shep maintains that rather than make solo albums, the band should reconvene for one more album and a tour. As I understand it, at least one member of the band insisted on making a solo album, so Alice did as well. By the time it came to think about reconvening, Alice wasn't interested and no doubt for a variety of reasons.

All you say is true...but a strong hand by management would have curtailed this...IF the band's staying together WAS important. But I agree that the Greene book was not that critical of a reason for the end of the band. As far as Shep...perhaps it is a case of what he didn't do or accomplish, than what he did.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think he meant letting Bob Greene write the book was a "no lose scenario." Letting him write the book doesn't mean he expected the band to disintegrate.

I understand your point but I took that to mean after, rather than before, it was actually written. I happily accept your interpretation.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Were they but this is the Alice Cooper band...the bad boys of rock.

Yes, I now realize you meant something else.

>One could actually see a dirty expose as a positive occurence, fan-wise, even if it hurt band chemistry.

Again, you're assuming that he knew that their laundry would be aired in public, though. There is just nothing to support that.

> The bands' continuation? Don't think it was a mandatory thing by that time.

Well, that's true, but I doubt they started the band specifically so that it would eventually cease to exist.

>Alice was the face of the band. The rest might have been perceived as more trouble than they were worth.

I agree. They were victims of Alice's personal fame. Not that I'm blaming them, but the way it ended was kind of inevitable once they agreed he would be the focal point. This happens with almost every band that you can think of. Almost every band has an individual who is the focal point. That doesn't mean every band has to break up, but those were the circumstances that the band we're discussing found themselves in. I honestly believe if they had not taken a break in 1974, there would have been one more album and one more tour, just as Shep claims he asked for and after that, they would still have disintegrated. Everything had become too difficult and I really think that by that point, Alice didn't need the hassle. I am sure that there are long marriages that end and so it isn't a surprise that rock bands do as well. Even The Beatles broke up, so I don't see why anyone thinks Alice Cooper should never have.

?All you say is true...but a strong hand by management would have curtailed this...

Do you REALLY believe that? What was Shep supposed to do? Was he supposed to tie Michael Bruce to a chair to make sure he never made his solo album? Was he supposed to hold a gun to Alice's head and force him to join the other as Neal claims they had agreed. Think about it. As placid as Alice can be, that doesn't make him pliable.

>I can imagine that IF the band's staying together WAS important.

What more was Shep supposed to do?

>As far as Shep...perhaps it is a case of what he didn't do or accomplish, than what he did.

What more was he supposed to do?