AF Masters BILLION DOLLAR BABIES

[pitkin88]

I have never met anyone who owns a SACD player!! Just put the headphones on and give us a review from your cd player!! Can you point me to some reviews out there as I can't find any? For some reason SHTV takes forever to load on my computer so haven't been able to check there.

It does again raise the question if this is indeed the master if we have artifacts not on the original album.

[A_MichaelUK]

>It does again raise the question if this is indeed the master if we have artifacts not on the original album.

I don't think it is a question of whether the "master" was used or not. The question is about which "master" was used. I think sometimes some people may use that word without quite understanding what it means.

[mestreech]

My first listen on this on a normal cdplayer is that this version rocks but for me the old WB version also rocked and even more did the 2cdversion.
As far people expect to hear different lyrics or instruments I have to disappoint you.
But I don't think that was the purpose.
I'm almost sure that with good equipment and headphones you can hear much more detail and clarity.

I think that the original version of Ezrin was state of the art. Hardly to improve but that's my opinion.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I have never met anyone who owns a SACD player!!

I own one.

[evil syd]

Good read, I am curious to hear the end result. Mainly for the potential in a different mix as opposed to an upgrade in sq. The gold discs for LITD, Killer and SO were nothing special imo and definitely not worth the extra $$, so I won't be buying the BDB SACD expecting even better sound from an already great sounding disc. But between the B$B stereo, quad vinyl and DVD audio mix, I'm interested to hear what else lives on those tapes.

Agreed, I also didn't find the upgrades so amazing. I own the SO and heard my friend's Killer and wasn't sold.

[pitkin88]

>It does again raise the question if this is indeed the master if we have artifacts not on the original album.

I don't think it is a question of whether the "master" was used or not. The question is about which "master" was used. I think sometimes some people may use that word without quite understanding what it means.

I'm not an expert on this by any means. Are you saying you can have more than one master? Technically that really doesn't make sense. If the album was made directly from this master ( as Hoffman claims ) then it would not be possible to have the
" dolby take 4 on it ".

[pitkin88]

I have never met anyone who owns a SACD player!!

I own one.

But I've never met you. Have you heard the cd? Could you give us your findings?

[pitkin88]

My first listen on this on a normal cdplayer is that this version rocks but for me the old WB version also rocked and even more did the 2cdversion.
As far people expect to hear different lyrics or instruments I have to disappoint you.
But I don't think that was the purpose.
I'm almost sure that with good equipment and headphones you can hear much more detail and clarity.

I think that the original version of Ezrin was state of the art. Hardly to improve but that's my opinion.

I don't remember hearing the first Warner cd but found the 2 disc to be very hard on the ears. I wasn't expecting to hear diff lyrics or instrumentation but just more clarity. I was wondering did he leave in the cross fades or do some songs just dead end.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm not an expert on this by any means.

Nor am I but I've tried to learn as much about this as I can.

>Are you saying you can have more than one master?

Yes although that isn't supposed to be possible. I think it is a question of semantics or terminology.

> Technically that really doesn't make sense.

I will attempt to explain. When people hear the word "master" they are thinking of the master tape - in other words, the original tape (or tapes) that the performances were recorded onto. However, this is not what an album is mastered from (this is all basic stuff that I would like to assume that you know). This master tape (or to be more accurate with the advent of multi -track recording, tapes) are then mixed to create a mixed "master", where you take, the multi - track tapes and change them into two channels (for stereo) thus creating a mixed "master". So again, the question is not whether or not a "master" used, but which one was used. You can have any number of versions of a mixed "master" but only one is needed in the mastering process (I assume you know what mastering is). If the very original "master" tape was used in this Audio Fidelity version, this would be a bad thing unless one is able to exactly recreate the final mix.

>If the album was made directly from this master ( as Hoffman claims ) then it would not be possible to have the
" dolby take 4 on it ".

That is my point. Which "master" are you referring to? Also, it could be possible if he decided to change the mix (which he should not do and I'm pretty sure, he said he had no intention of doing).

[mestreech]

Please remember that the studiochatter I heard could also be excisting on the original tape/master/cd but that Ezrin took it of.
Maybe Hoffman put it on to make it more special.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Maybe Hoffman put it on to make it more special.

I am not sure he should be doing that. As I may have said before, I am always uncomfortable when the original producer is not involved in projects like this.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I have never met anyone who owns a SACD player!!

I own one.

But I've never met you. Have you heard the cd? Could you give us your findings?

I'm waiting for it to arrive from Amazon. Should be here late next week I hope.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

If I remember from Hoffman's previous comments, he doesn't edit. He dumps the tape as is as he wants to stay completely in the analog domain until the last minute when the analog-to-digital conversion happens at the very end of the process.

This additional content could indicate that this generation is one level higher in the food chain and was edited out of the copy made from this tape.

I think there are some other instances where this sort of thing has happend.... maybe a Van Halen disc... and a Cars disc. Not sure what I think of it. But given it's between tracks, I don't find it particularly irksome to be honest.

[A_MichaelUK]

>This additional content could indicate that this generation is one level higher in the food chain and was edited out of the copy made from this tape.

If that is the case, one has to ask why he included it.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

If that is the case, one has to ask why he included it.

Based on what he's said in the past, if it's on the tape, it's on the disc.

According to him, he doesn't do any editing and to edit he'd have to convert to digital much earlier in his mastering process to remove the chatter. This violates his principle of staying completely analog until the last possible moment.

Not sure I buy this when it's a matter of something "between songs" and he can simply stop/start later... but that's what he says.

I suspect he rather likes to include something that's different from the originals as a sort of bonus to differentiate his discs.

It does seem contrary to many of his purist beliefs.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Based on what he's said in the past, if it's on the tape, it's on the disc.

Again, it depends on which "tape" is being used (and I know you and I have discussed this).

>According to him, he doesn't do any editing

If he's using the mixed master, then presumably he doesn't need to.

>Not sure I buy this when it's a matter of something "between songs" and he can simply stop/start later... but that's what he says.

Exactly.

>I suspect he rather likes to include something that's different from the originals as a sort of bonus to differentiate his discs.

He doesn't really have the right to do that. If he does, that isn't the album that Bob Ezrin and the band created. I appreciate that he probably isn't making huge changes, but these things are not for him to decide and if that's what he's doing (and I'm not saying he is), then he is creating a new mix and that is not right. Look at what supposedly happened with "Raw Power".

[RemarkablyInsincere]

He doesn't really have the right to do that. If he does, that isn't the album that Bob Ezrin and the band created.

I agree.

[mestreech]

Just say this response on the Hoffmanforum :


I had the original vinyl LP way back when, probably about 30 years ago or so when I last listened to it. I want to say that chatter was on the original, but like I said, it was a long time ago I last listened to it.


jjmanda,Today at 1:47 PMReport

I had the original when it came out and NEVER heard that part.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Hoffman says the studio chatter was "a gift".

I felt compelled to question him on it. Seems a bit arrogant to me for him to feel entitled in making changes to a classic album like that, no matter how minor.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I can't view the thread anymore so either they deleted it or banned me from it.

Just for asking a simple question... odd.