AF Masters BILLION DOLLAR BABIES

[Crazy Little Child]

The internet has to be full of that information and should be easy to find.

... and indeed i'd already answered my own question, was just tallking/typing to myself, i guess!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_mastering#Process

[pitkin88]

You have been banned for the following reason: Banned for causing Steve to nearly lose his Job.

[Toronto Bob]

That Steve H. has a thin skin. It's just as well I don't belong to that forum. I seem to be the only one who was not delighted with the 3 AC albums he did. I'm not saying they are terrible or worse than the original WB cd - just not really improved and with some small anomolies that no one else seemed to notice.

I still will likely purchase this re-issue of BDB in hopes there's something worthwhile to hear.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

That Steve H. has a thin skin. It's just as well I don't belong to that forum. I seem to be the only one who was not delighted with the 3 AC albums he did. I'm not saying they are terrible or worse than the original WB cd - just not really improved and with some small anomolies that no one else seemed to notice.

I still will likely purchase this re-issue of BDB in hopes there's something worthwhile to hear.

This has been said before, but I will reiterate. Hoffman sytle masterings aren't going to impress if you are playing them on cheap equipment (pc speakers, crappy earbuds, $300 dollar Sound Design stereo systems).

If you have cheap, crappy equipment, often the brickwalled, compressed ear bleeders will sound better on your system because they can compensate for deficiencies in cheap equipment. But overall the sound is still lousy.

The more revealing your equipment, the better quality mastered music will sound. You don't have to spend a ton either in this day and age, but you can't buy bargain basement stuff. Some mid level equipment can reap the benefits. Even an iPod can sound pretty good if you go and invest in a quality set of earphones.

That's just the way it is.

[pitkin88]

Well a lot of it is down to the ear too. I have a friend who has a killer system and was stunned to hearing him playing an off center or warped record and not hearing it.

I listen a lot in the car these days and the Hoffman cds sound terrific on my factory stereo.

Point taken about the headphones. You will hear a lot of nuances on the albums.

[Toronto Bob]

That Steve H. has a thin skin. It's just as well I don't belong to that forum. I seem to be the only one who was not delighted with the 3 AC albums he did. I'm not saying they are terrible or worse than the original WB cd - just not really improved and with some small anomolies that no one else seemed to notice.

I still will likely purchase this re-issue of BDB in hopes there's something worthwhile to hear.

This has been said before, but I will reiterate. Hoffman sytle masterings aren't going to impress if you are playing them on cheap equipment (pc speakers, crappy earbuds, $300 dollar Sound Design stereo systems).

If you have cheap, crappy equipment, often the brickwalled, compressed ear bleeders will sound better on your system because they can compensate for deficiencies in cheap equipment. But overall the sound is still lousy.

The more revealing your equipment, the better quality mastered music will sound. You don't have to spend a ton either in this day and age, but you can't buy bargain basement stuff. Some mid level equipment can reap the benefits. Even an iPod can sound pretty good if you go and invest in a quality set of earphones.

That's just the way it is.

Oh OK - I had forgotten that I made a detailed list of my audio systam and that you had deemed it "cheap, crappy". Oh wait that never happened.

Amp/receiver - Marantz (can't be arsed to go and look up the model #)
blu ray player- Samsung something or other
turntable - Rega Planer 2 with Stanton cartridge
cassette deck - Tascam 112 MKII
Cerwin Vega speakers (4 of them no sub) again forget model # and I ain't going downstairs to look

My system is fine, certainly not high end audiophile but not really cheap and crappy either. In fact my ears listening to my system noticed right off some anomalies on the SH SO disc. I went to the computer ripped the files and checked out the spectral frequency and lo and behold my ears weren't hearing things - there was definitely a low level hum preceding every track not present on the WB disc. For the LITD re-master @ 5:00 into Black Juju a click can be heard on the SH version. To be sure that click is there on the original WB cd @ 4:59 but it would have been such an easy fix - so with that lack of attention to detail it makes me wonder.

I'm not saying the discs sound bad, I'm not saying the WB discs sound better. I'm saying that what ever incremental improvement the AF disc have (real or imagined) over the WB discs, it is not worth the $30 price tag. A person who does not have these titles on cd would be getting more bang for their buck with the budget priced WB discs. Just my opinion of course.

[mestreech]

You have been banned for the following reason: Banned for causing Steve to nearly lose his Job.

A joke I presume>>

[pitkin88]

You have been banned for the following reason: Banned for causing Steve to nearly lose his Job.

A joke I presume>>

No. I am deadly serious and I can forward you the pm!! They just let me back on:

We needed to temporarily turn off your account because of your posting in the Alice Cooper BDB thread. Our aim was eliminate any misunderstandings about the Billion Dollar Babies mastering project but your posts worked against these efforts. We will reinstate your account providing you agree that your future participation in that thread stays clear of discussion of master tapes and related subjects.

[pitkin88]

Supposedly God and Bob are now on the same page now. Amuk without all hell breaking loose and " the suits " getting involved could you ask Ezrin if he agrees that Hoffman has the original master?

[A_MichaelUK]

>" the suits " getting involved could you ask Ezrin if he agrees that Hoffman has the original master?

Maybe but I think you may be missing the point. Ezrin doesn't have the tapes in his possession, so he can only go by what Hoffman said, hence Ezrin's scepticism. It appears Hoffman has the correct box, but that doesn't mean he has the correct tape. Anything could be in there (and I know of at least one producer who discovered this when he was asked to remaster an album he had produced). So I don't think Ezrin can answer your question without him hearing or even maybe seeing the actual tape or tapes.

[SickThings]

The main reason most early CD releases sounded flat is because the companies didn't go back to the original sources. Many early CD releases were created using the same sources used for the cassette versions because it was faster, easier, and most importantly, cheaper. That paved the way for all the remastered releases 10--20 years later---plus they could get people to buy them all over again.

Hunter

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Oh OK - I had forgotten that I made a detailed list of my audio systam and that you had deemed it "cheap, crappy". Oh wait that never happened.

I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I went to the computer ripped the files and checked out the spectral frequency and lo and behold my ears weren't hearing things - there was definitely a low level hum preceding every track not present on the WB disc. For the LITD re-master @ 5:00 into Black Juju a click can be heard on the SH version. To be sure that click is there on the original WB cd @ 4:59 but it would have been such an easy fix - so with that lack of attention to detail it makes me wonder.

Hoffman doesn't do edits. He stays completely analog until the last possible moment so it's not doable. With Hoffman, you get what's on the tape so getting the highest quality tapes is of utmost importance.

[pitkin88]

Oh OK - I had forgotten that I made a detailed list of my audio systam and that you had deemed it "cheap, crappy". Oh wait that never happened.

I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I went to the computer ripped the files and checked out the spectral frequency and lo and behold my ears weren't hearing things - there was definitely a low level hum preceding every track not present on the WB disc. For the LITD re-master @ 5:00 into Black Juju a click can be heard on the SH version. To be sure that click is there on the original WB cd @ 4:59 but it would have been such an easy fix - so with that lack of attention to detail it makes me wonder.

Hoffman doesn't do edits. He stays completely analog until the last possible moment so it's not doable. With Hoffman, you get what's on the tape so getting the highest quality tapes is of utmost importance.

First, Stephen Marsh went in and fixed each and every edit (the glue on the splice tape had bled over the years and it was a sticky mess at each of the many edit points). No baking of the tape was required as the tape stock was from the good year of 1972. Tape still played fine, no shedding whatsoever. Good news.


I thought he fixed the drop out on Under My Wheels too.

[pitkin88]

>" the suits " getting involved could you ask Ezrin if he agrees that Hoffman has the original master?

Maybe but I think you may be missing the point. Ezrin doesn't have the tapes in his possession, so he can only go by what Hoffman said, hence Ezrin's scepticism. It appears Hoffman has the correct box, but that doesn't mean he has the correct tape. Anything could be in there (and I know of at least one producer who discovered this when he was asked to remaster an album he had produced). So I don't think Ezrin can answer your question without him hearing or even maybe seeing the actual tape or tapes.

I did mean to ask the question is it possible to have the correct box but not the correct tape. Poses a good question: If Hoffman doesn't have it who does? Do you know if the two disc or the SHM where mastered from the original master? If so did whoever mastered those have the same issues as Hoffman. If you or Bob know who mastered those we should be able to get an answer.

[A_MichaelUK]

>If Hoffman doesn't have it who does?

It could be lying in a drawer in an office in Burbank or something. Who knows? Even the biggest record companies can be inadequate in the way they maintain their archives.

> Do you know if the two disc or the SHM where mastered from the original master?

I can't imagine that the 2001 version was not. As for the latter, I asked that question in this thread.

> If so did whoever mastered those have the same issues as Hoffman. If you or Bob know who mastered those we should be able to get an answer.

In relation to the 2001 version, I am almost certain that information is in the credits.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

First, Stephen Marsh went in and fixed each and every edit (the glue on the splice tape had bled over the years and it was a sticky mess at each of the many edit points). No baking of the tape was required as the tape stock was from the good year of 1972. Tape still played fine, no shedding whatsoever. Good news.

Completely different things and I'm pretty sure you already know this given the amount of time you've spent on the Hoffman boards.

I thought he fixed the drop out on Under My Wheels too.

Nope. Different source.

[Toronto Bob]

Oh OK - I had forgotten that I made a detailed list of my audio systam and that you had deemed it "cheap, crappy". Oh wait that never happened.

I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I went to the computer ripped the files and checked out the spectral frequency and lo and behold my ears weren't hearing things - there was definitely a low level hum preceding every track not present on the WB disc. For the LITD re-master @ 5:00 into Black Juju a click can be heard on the SH version. To be sure that click is there on the original WB cd @ 4:59 but it would have been such an easy fix - so with that lack of attention to detail it makes me wonder.

Hoffman doesn't do edits. He stays completely analog until the last possible moment so it's not doable. With Hoffman, you get what's on the tape so getting the highest quality tapes is of utmost importance.

Sure you weren't referring to me specifically, you just said people with cheap audio systems weren't going to be able to appreciate the improvements. Entirely different.

Not doing a non-destructive edit is a poor decision anyway you slice it.

Inadvertent pun.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Sure you weren't referring to me specifically, you just said people with cheap audio systems weren't going to be able to appreciate the improvements. Entirely different.

How could I be referring to you if you don't meet those criteria?

If I'd intended to refer to you specifically, I'd have said people who are never happy with anything will not appreciate the sound quality of these remasters.

Not doing a non-destructive edit is a poor decision anyway you slice it.

It makes little sense to scrap your entire process in order to fix a minor blemish on the tape.

[While Heaven Wept]

I have heard 2 of Hoffman's remasters. I ran them through my own studio monitors to give them a fair hearing.

To me they sounded dull, slightly flat and a little lifeless. Certainly didn't have the warm, lively sound of the original vinyls although admittedly....vinyl itself has a certain characteristic as opposed to digital (cd).

I also listened to them on normal domestic speakers and found the same. To my ears, they're a waste of money.

I'd be very interested in hearing someone like Bob Ezrin actually giving the albums a complete remix. Re-masters tend to be of little value for me.....although the WB Alice catalogue on Cd is a mixed bag.

[Toronto Bob]

Sure you weren't referring to me specifically, you just said people with cheap audio systems weren't going to be able to appreciate the improvements. Entirely different.

How could I be referring to you if you don't meet those criteria?

If I'd intended to refer to you specifically, I'd have said people who are never happy with anything will not appreciate the sound quality of these remasters.

.

And you would be wrong on that point as well.

Picked up the Rush Vapor Trails remix and it's fantastic. Love the Thick As a Brick 5.1, those Genesis rereleases sound great and defintiely worth the money. Ala SH "work" barely moves the needle so to speak.

Maybe if David Botrill was involved with this BDB project or Steve Wilson - you know guys who's work is stellar, then we could get excited about this.