Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Daggers & Contracts » Mon May 26, 2014 11:11 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:RYFAY is a fun album. Nothing earth shattering but it served it's purpose at the time. Constrictor would have faired better with much better production and real drums.
Roses On White Lace!!! When I heard it on the Prince Of Darkness comp I HAD to buy the RYFAY CD!(I'd been away for a little while :/ ) As far a dissapointment - ZCS & DADA
He lost me there. I know there are those that Love 'em but I can only tolerate cuts - not the whole LP of either. *surrender*
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Shoesalesman » Tue May 27, 2014 12:57 am

Deeper.
If I may put forward a slice of personal colostomy...

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by cooperrocks » Tue May 27, 2014 7:57 pm

I liked the hair band years. It was good to see Alice doing fun, catchy tunes again. They were smart albums for him to do and I agree with a few others on "Raise Your Fist and Yell", terrific album. Yes, some of the albums with the original band were classics, but I think you have to be able to move past those albums if you are really going to get a lot of enjoyment out of Alice's career. I think there have been some really good songs put out during every era of Alice.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by pitkin88 » Wed May 28, 2014 1:55 am

mr.barlow wrote:(No More) Love At Your Convenience

There is nothing that can even come close to reaching the realms of it's embarrassing awfulness.

Something we can finally agree on. Pitiful as was the whole album.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by patrick » Wed May 28, 2014 6:00 pm

perhaps one of the reasons why Alice "doesn't remember" having made ao this record ;)
(strange however that "it's hot tonight " does get a place in the setlist now and then.. )
you really wouldn't understand..

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Wed May 28, 2014 9:11 pm

I never heard Alice distance himself from "Lace & Whiskey", in fact he offered a brief synopsis on the Metal Blade reissues issued many years ago. I can't quite remember the exact comments (I'm sure they can be found either on this site or on the web) but it had to do with "hollywood excess and melancholy". Also, Alice speaks of Peter Sellers and Maurice Escargot in "Golf Monster". It's not one of Alice's best albums but "You & Me" was a pretty big hit single and he toured the album. Also, it has a few good songs. BUT--it also contains what is by far the worst song ever recorded by any rock n roll musician--on second thought--the worst song ever recorded in the history of recorded music--(No More) Love At Your Convenience.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Wed May 28, 2014 9:26 pm

Now...more on that song. I've read where Alice has stated that (No More) Love At Your Convenience was recorded as a "joke" or a parody of disco which was ruling the charts and the music industry at the time. I happen to think it was written and included on demand from Warner Bros Records. A lot of established rock n roll musicians were "experimenting" with disco--The Rolling Stones with "Miss You" and Rod Stewart with "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" (which by the way was co-written by Duane Hitchings who went on to write with Alice for Special Forces) to name a few. At any rate--a video (also horrible) was produced for this stinking pile which would to me prove it was much more than a "parody". It also was the first real attempt for Alice to change the image. In this case it was going for a very mainstream/variety show vibe. Just look at the single sleeve for "You & Me". Also the Maurice Escargot look was much "softer" for the mainstream. Then you had the Tonight Show appearance with the dancing chickens which was very reminicent of the variety shows which were all over American TV at the time and a big hit with mainstream audiences. It all turned out to be a near disaster--thus the return to the "classic" character with From The Inside. Also, one has to keep in mind Alice's out of control drinking at this time in his career. At any rate--the second time he "softened" the character with Trash it worked incredibly well. So--maybe he and Shep learned some valuable lessons from Lace & Whiskey/Maurice Escargot and it helped them have tremendous success with Trash years later.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by E_maniac » Wed May 28, 2014 10:38 pm

AC - the ballads/ chickens on the stage
Here here!

As has been mentioned highs FAR outweigh the lows but a few of my disappointments are:

1 - Lace and Whiskey (3 tracks i will take the rest can just disapear as far as im concerned)
2 - Dyslexia off DADA. Just horrible (i dont hate that period as much as some people, some great some average etc but i hate this track)
3 - Constrictors production. I like the album (apart from thrill my gorilla) Its been said before i know, but man this album could do with a remix and some drums!! - (seriously how can we make this happen?!)
4 - Talking about religion ALLOT around the brutal planet time, i adore that album but i just wished he would calm down on all the rhetoric
5 - The garage rock revival thing (the eyes of alice and dirty diamonds)the albums had their moments but after the amazing brutal planet and decent if floored dragontown it was a huge letdown.
6 - Along came a spider - i think if some competent producers had a crack at this we might get a decent album as it stands its just not good enough
7 - when a "welcome 2 my nightmare tour" just didnt happen.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by E_maniac » Wed May 28, 2014 10:41 pm

I disagree that RYFAY is a worse flop than ACAS. As I've said many times, that album truly captures the Alice Cooper image with its sinister theme and the music remains consistently dark and heavy throughout with that twisted dark humour. Compared to other Alice Cooper albums, I think that's the one that almost hit his image right on the mark. If he had done another album like that right after, I'm sure it would have been a success.
RYFAY is one of my all time fave alice albums. If they did a follow up to this in the same vein, im sure it would have blown our tiny minds.
"side2" as everyone says, is just stunning.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by boy/man » Wed May 28, 2014 11:30 pm

Yeah, okay.. Religion... It just doesn't fit rock'n'roll.. To paraphrase Alice: "Rock'n'roll is invented to kill politics, not encourage it!" Same thing can be said about religious propaganda...

I don't know if this is the right place to talk about this, sorry if I offend anyone, but christian messages in AC outfit just doesn't cut it. :headcutoff:

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Wed May 28, 2014 11:47 pm

I would imagine that if Alice chooses to use the "character" that he created to use to pass on a message that he wishes to share to others is entirely up to him. If Alice chooses to share a Christian message (or any message) in his "outfit" is something that is entirely within his right. I have actually gained even MORE respect for Alice because of his strong Christian faith. Again--NO ONE--and I mean NO ONE is forced to listen to Alice's music or his beliefs. Anyone at any time can simply stop being a fan---or simply be a fan of the fictitious character he created and ignore the man behind the character.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by boy/man » Thu May 29, 2014 12:10 am

Oh, I'll NEVER stop being a fan because of that! It's up to him what he wants to belive.
I did however find the last chapter of Golf Monster quite a challenge to read through, it was a tiny bit preachy, you might say. And he has made some pretty condescending comments about the whole Norwegian black metal movement, wich I am a part of.. Most of them are big AC fans btw. And, yes I am an atheist. Proud to say.

BUT, and this is important, to repeat what I just said: I respect any people's right to belive what they want to belive. I'll never, ever stop being a fan because of this, but it's just not right to hit people over their heads again and again with religious dogma.... I don't know what else to say before it sounds rude, so I'll just shut up now.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by E_maniac » Thu May 29, 2014 12:42 am

My problem is not that he is a christian (or anything else for that matter) I dont care that last temptation has a religious theme running through it.(its one of my fave albums)
I would just rather not hear him preaching to us about it. Im an atheist and im all for everyone believing what they want as long as they are happy and they dont hurt anyone. BUt i love his music and in the brutal planet days he seemed to talk less about his music and more about religion.
I would have loved to hear about the recording sessions, or what bob ezrin brought to the table, the artwork etc etc but he never mentioned that at all from the stuff i read.

To be clear i dont want to upset anyone, im not having a go at religion etc, he can believe what he likes (the same as everyone here) but i would prefer it if we stuck to talking about the music.
Doesnt make me hate him/his music etc i just found it disapointing is all.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Thu May 29, 2014 12:55 am

boy/man wrote:Oh, I'll NEVER stop being a fan because of that! It's up to him what he wants to belive.
I did however find the last chapter of Golf Monster quite a challenge to read through, it was a tiny bit preachy, you might say. And he has made some pretty condescending comments about the whole Norwegian black metal movement, wich I am a part of.. Most of them are big AC fans btw. And, yes I am an atheist. Proud to say.

BUT, and this is important, to repeat what I just said: I respect any people's right to belive what they want to belive. I'll never, ever stop being a fan because of this, but it's just not right to hit people over their heads again and again with religious dogma.... I don't know what else to say before it sounds rude, so I'll just shut up now.
Again--I think it's well within his right to "hit people over their heads again and again with religious dogma" as it is within your right to not listen to people who "hot people over their heads again and again with religious dogma". Alice is very strong in his faith and at times chooses to share the message. If he chooses to do in "in-character" than that is his choice and it should be respected and tolerated, instead of mocked and ridiculed which is often the case in this forum. Face it--the man is a devout Christian and he is very proud of his faith and wants to share the message. You have every right to disagree with the message and not to take it. Also, you don't have to shut up--just realize that Alice has the same right to be preachy about his Christianity if he so chooses as you have to be preachy about being anti-Christian.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Thu May 29, 2014 12:59 am

Also, it seems there would be NO talk of religion on this forum if people didn't bring it up. If you look at past postings in this forumn you will find that Alice's faith is ALWAYS first brought up by people complaining about it and expressing their dislike for it. When others then defend it--the people who first started the discussion then complain about religion being discussed in the forum. My question is--why in the world was it brought up in the first place by people who don't want it discussed?

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Rhapsody of Fire » Thu May 29, 2014 1:36 am

mr.barlow wrote:I would imagine that if Alice chooses to use the "character" that he created to use to pass on a message that he wishes to share to others is entirely up to him. If Alice chooses to share a Christian message (or any message) in his "outfit" is something that is entirely within his right. I have actually gained even MORE respect for Alice because of his strong Christian faith. Again--NO ONE--and I mean NO ONE is forced to listen to Alice's music or his beliefs. Anyone at any time can simply stop being a fan---or simply be a fan of the fictitious character he created and ignore the man behind the character.
Of course. And I have the right to be a fictitious fan of a fictitious character, or be a real fan of a real rock star.
Last edited by Rhapsody of Fire on Thu May 29, 2014 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Thu May 29, 2014 2:10 am

That's the greatest thing about freedom. One can choose to be or do whatever they want. One can become Queen, a white rabbit, a Christian or an athiest. If one chooses to be a fake fan who follows a fake character or one who chooses to follow the real person who created the fake character --it's individual choice. The most important thing is that each of us respects and tolerates each others freedoms and choices.

NOTE: The content of this post was in response to the ORIGINAL CONTENT of the post which preceeds it. The author of the preceeding post decided to edit his comment AFTER I posted this reply.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mr.barlow » Thu May 29, 2014 2:56 am

Rhapsody of Fire wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:I would imagine that if Alice chooses to use the "character" that he created to use to pass on a message that he wishes to share to others is entirely up to him. If Alice chooses to share a Christian message (or any message) in his "outfit" is something that is entirely within his right. I have actually gained even MORE respect for Alice because of his strong Christian faith. Again--NO ONE--and I mean NO ONE is forced to listen to Alice's music or his beliefs. Anyone at any time can simply stop being a fan---or simply be a fan of the fictitious character he created and ignore the man behind the character.
Of course. And I have the right to be a fictitious fan of a fictitious character, or be a real fan of a real rock star.
I will also respond to this EDITED version of your original post. You have the right to be a fake fan of a fake character or a real fan of a real musician who created a rock star character.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Rhapsody of Fire » Thu May 29, 2014 10:32 am

mr.barlow wrote:
Rhapsody of Fire wrote:
mr.barlow wrote:I would imagine that if Alice chooses to use the "character" that he created to use to pass on a message that he wishes to share to others is entirely up to him. If Alice chooses to share a Christian message (or any message) in his "outfit" is something that is entirely within his right. I have actually gained even MORE respect for Alice because of his strong Christian faith. Again--NO ONE--and I mean NO ONE is forced to listen to Alice's music or his beliefs. Anyone at any time can simply stop being a fan---or simply be a fan of the fictitious character he created and ignore the man behind the character.
Of course. And I have the right to be a fictitious fan of a fictitious character, or be a real fan of a real rock star.
I will also respond to this EDITED version of your original post. You have the right to be a fake fan of a fake character or a real fan of a real musician who created a rock star character.
I didn't say fake, I said fictitious.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu May 29, 2014 12:50 pm

>4 - Talking about religion ALLOT around the brutal planet time, i adore that album but i just wished he would calm down on all the rhetoric

That really is an exaggeration. If he is asked about it in an interview, he will talk about it. As for it informing his writing, in a way it would be strange if it didn't and I don't see how something like "The Last Temptation" or other religious references that he sometimes makes can be considered to be "rhetoric". I would say the same about the post from boy/man as well.

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