Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

[A_MichaelUK]

>That's what you think - I consider my description to be appropriate.

I think you would be in the minority - the songs you mentioned don't exactly sound like Mudhoney or any other so - called "Grunge" band and even if they did, it would be weird to dismiss an entire album based on three out of ten songs.


>If someone who has heard "Trash" & "Hey Stoopid" would ask me, how TLT sounds,I'll tell him exactly what I've written above. And I sure that would be helpful for that person to get an idea of the album's sound.

Nobody is denying those three albums are different from each other and I hope you don't think that I think that they sound the same but that doesn't make "The Last Temptation" a "Grunge" album just on the basis of three songs and I would even deny those three songs are laden down with those "elements".

>So, if you find my labels lazy - I'm eagerly expecting yours...

I think most of those labels you used show a very narrow way of looking at music (maybe you spent time working in a record shop) - not that thise labels are necessarily false in all cases, but the line that separates them is very thin. For example, I can hear plenty of melodies in "Raise Your Fist And Yell" but you don't apply that adjective to it. Almost everything you've listed is pretty much based on hard rock from the seventies (in relation to the compositions) and most of Alice's output I would label as 'hard rock' with some of it heavier than others (and yes there are different textures across different albums). So if you're dismissing what is generally accepted as being one of his best ever albums based on the actual sound of three songs rather than the songs themselves, that would be a shame, especially as you seem to be commenting on the sound rather than the strength (or otherwise) of the actual songs.

[obsession77]

I think most of those labels you used show a very narrow way of looking at music (maybe you spent time working in a record shop) - not that thise labels are necessarily false in all cases, but the line that separates them is very thin.

Well, actually I only use to classify music into two categories =

1. music that I like
and
2. music that I don't like

BTW, no, I haven't worked at a record shop but I produce/write/compose music myself.
And as you know - artists can sometimes be a bit... well... let's call it "special"

[Janne]

My biggest disappointment is him not coming to Finland more often.

Apart from that I'd probably go with Along Came A Spider. I really liked Dirty Diamonds and couldn't wait for the new album - then I didn't like it at all. Well, maybe it made Welcome 2 My Nightmare sound even better. That one was real good.

I actually got into Alice around Dirty Diamonds, so I haven't had too much time to get disappointed too much.

[mr.barlow]

> The intro of "Unholy War" is a prime example for that. When I heard "Lost in America" as a preview of the album on MTV Europe's Headbanger's Ball, I was waiting and waiting for the "real" chorus that unfortunately never came.

Those are just two songs though. I don't see how they define the whole album.

Ah, come on... Then there's "Stolen Prayer" which could also be a Soundgarden song.
What I wanted to say is that there is a grunge/alternative influence all over the album and no one can deny that despite commercial and radio-friendly tracks such as "It's me", most of the tracks are not as harmonic as the songs on the albums before.

I agree with Andy that TLT is by no means a "grunge" album. The songs mentioned do contain an "alternative" edge to them--but far from grunge. The Last Temptation is one of Alice's best albums--I'd put it in the top 5 of his career. Again--the music trends changed as "hair metal" or melodic rock became to be seen as a joke and Alice again--and smartly--changed with the times. Alice rode the "hair metal" wave back to the top. It was a wise move commericially and career wise, although he produced music which is just horrible----Trash is appropriately named as it it one big pile of pure pop metal dreck---and the passing of time has not made it any better. I often wonder if Alice named the album "Trash" as an inside joke--knowing what he was doing and producing. The market at the time was dominated by artists and bands who wrote and produced garbage music and it made millions--so Alice and Shep decided--if it's garbage they want--we'll give them a pile of "trash" and make a few million in the process. A page out of the P.T. Barnum playbook. Reminds me of a Barnum quote "nobody ever went broke by underestimating the taste of the American public". At any rate--I think The Last Temptation was a very personal album to Alice (as was Dada) and thus why it is so damn good. Also, it helped Alice gain back some respect after his "hair metal" foray and to distance himself from that genre. Brutal Planet--another one of Alice's best albums was also a change with the times and latched on to the "industrial" sound that was popular at the time. At any rate--my point is that Alice's longevity and success has a lot to do with his willingness to change with the times.

[obsession77]

It's quite amusing to read how people judge over music and the musical taste of other people, considering it garbage - only because they don't like it. The connotation that swings along with your words is - "Anyone who listens to that kind of music is stupid and not as intelligent as me." But - I guess this is nothing new on the Internet's discussion boards.

Yes, I do like all the albums you consider garbage. But I also like Alice's late 70's (FTI, FTF) early 80's stuff (ZCS), DaDa (an underrated gem), the original ACB albums produced by Bob Ezrin. So I'm not just a "Poison-fanboy".

At any rate--my point is that Alice's longevity and success has a lot to do with his willingness to change with the times.

So - according to this sentence you are 100% with me again - because:
It's time for Alice to get away from his 60's/70's retro style to something fresh because his last albums and the announced covers album are all in the same style.

According to your other statements, some of Alice's best albums were those where he went with the times - not retro.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Well, actually I only use to classify music into two categories

So what was the point of those categories you provided us with?!

>And as you know - artists can sometimes be a bit... well... let's call it "special"

That can be true.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Alice rode the "hair metal" wave back to the top.

Also, just to provide a bit of background (although I hope it doesn't need saying), it isn't as if he just desperately follows any passing trend just to sell a lot of records. He is often enthusiastic about whatever is contemporary, especially when he can detect his (or the original band's) influence.

[mr.barlow]

It's quite amusing to read how people judge over music and the musical taste of other people, considering it garbage - only because they don't like it. The connotation that swings along with your words is - "Anyone who listens to that kind of music is stupid and not as intelligent as me." But - I guess this is nothing new on the Internet's discussion boards.

Yes, I do like all the albums you consider garbage. But I also like Alice's late 70's (FTI, FTF) early 80's stuff (ZCS), DaDa (an underrated gem), the original ACB albums produced by Bob Ezrin. So I'm not just a "Poison-fanboy".

At any rate--my point is that Alice's longevity and success has a lot to do with his willingness to change with the times.

So - according to this sentence you are 100% with me again - because:
It's time for Alice to get away from his 60's/70's retro style to something fresh because his last albums and the announced covers album are all in the same style.

According to your other statements, some of Alice's best albums were those where he went with the times - not retro.

First off--did you read my original post to your intitial posting? Secondly, stating my opinion that the "hair metal" is garbage would be the same as you stating that it's not garbage. I can care less what anyone listens to as the majority of the types of music and artists who make up my musical tastes would not connect with nearly everyone who posts on this board. As far as Alice going foward--you are aware that the man is now 66 years old correct? That's a few years shy of 70. I'm not to sure if Alice is concerned about breaking new ground in the music world as he is to shore up his legacy. I'm not saying that Alice doesn't have another great album up his sleeve--but I don't think he's too concerned about topping the charts, which by the way would be near impossible in today's world. I'm quite certain that the 13-25 years old crowd is not looking to a 66 year old artist to fill their music needs--they are too busy supporting and enjoying their own generation of artists. Alice will ride out his career by his own standards--touring and releasing albums he wants to make. Alice I think is finally understanding that he is indeed a music icon and a true piece of Americana. His mission is accomplished and he can finish out his career on his own terms.

[mr.barlow]

>Alice rode the "hair metal" wave back to the top.

Also, just to provide a bit of background (although I hope it doesn't need saying), it isn't as if he just desperately follows any passing trend just to sell a lot of records. He is often enthusiastic about whatever is contemporary, especially when he can detect his (or the original band's) influence.

Absolutely--the funny thing is that Alice as he changed with musical trends he produced such original music within those genres that he started influencing new artists that found him in those specific eras. Quite often when he entered a new music style trend--he did it as good--or usually BETTER than those who were the top of the game at the time. I mean Brutal Planet blows nearly everything in that era out of the water. That's just one example. Even the "metal" on RYFAY was world's better than anything else at the time. Even Trash was at the same level--better in some ways--in that horrible Bon Jovi genre. I'm sure the song "Poison" had it's influence on many young artists at the time. I think you can find Alice's influence in nearly every genre and aspect of rock n roll. There's not too many artists who can keep entering new trends/styles of music and end up becoming major influences within them.

[Rhapsody of Fire]

I would imagine that if Alice chooses to use the "character" that he created to use to pass on a message that he wishes to share to others is entirely up to him. If Alice chooses to share a Christian message (or any message) in his "outfit" is something that is entirely within his right. I have actually gained even MORE respect for Alice because of his strong Christian faith. Again--NO ONE--and I mean NO ONE is forced to listen to Alice's music or his beliefs. Anyone at any time can simply stop being a fan---or simply be a fan of the fictitious character he created and ignore the man behind the character.

Of course. And I have the right to be a fictitious fan of a fictitious character, or be a real fan of a real rock star.

I will also respond to this EDITED version of your original post. You have the right to be a fake fan of a fake character or a real fan of a real musician who created a rock star character.

I EDIT a post if I want to.

[Rhapsody of Fire]

It's quite amusing to read how people judge over music and the musical taste of other people, considering it garbage - only because they don't like it. The connotation that swings along with your words is - "Anyone who listens to that kind of music is stupid and not as intelligent as me." But - I guess this is nothing new on the Internet's discussion boards.

Yes, I do like all the albums you consider garbage. But I also like Alice's late 70's (FTI, FTF) early 80's stuff (ZCS), DaDa (an underrated gem), the original ACB albums produced by Bob Ezrin. So I'm not just a "Poison-fanboy".

At any rate--my point is that Alice's longevity and success has a lot to do with his willingness to change with the times.

So - according to this sentence you are 100% with me again - because:
It's time for Alice to get away from his 60's/70's retro style to something fresh because his last albums and the announced covers album are all in the same style.

According to your other statements, some of Alice's best albums were those where he went with the times - not retro.

First off--did you read my original post to your intitial posting? Secondly, stating my opinion that the "hair metal" is garbage would be the same as you stating that it's not garbage. I can care less what anyone listens to as the majority of the types of music and artists who make up my musical tastes would not connect with nearly everyone who posts on this board. As far as Alice going foward--you are aware that the man is now 66 years old correct? That's a few years shy of 70. I'm not to sure if Alice is concerned about breaking new ground in the music world as he is to shore up his legacy. I'm not saying that Alice doesn't have another great album up his sleeve--but I don't think he's too concerned about topping the charts, which by the way would be near impossible in today's world. I'm quite certain that the 13-25 years old crowd is not looking to a 66 year old artist to fill their music needs--they are too busy supporting and enjoying their own generation of artists. Alice will ride out his career by his own standards--touring and releasing albums he wants to make. Alice I think is finally understanding that he is indeed a music icon and a true piece of Americana. His mission is accomplished and he can finish out his career on his own terms.

Always very flattering and inspiring for an artist to get new fans from the new generation.

[Rhapsody of Fire]

[Rhapsody of Fire]

No disappointment, can't think of anything.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Quite often when he entered a new music style trend--he did it as good--or usually BETTER than those who were the top of the game at the time.

I agree and the reason for that is because (for the most part), the songs are really good and because the quality of the songs is the most important thing, not the style in which they are arranged, recorded, produced and mixed.

[Lucius Morthem]

Somebody said that it was imposibble to top the charts in this years to a 66 old musician? I Wonder if he/she/it knows what Black Sabbath is and what happened with their last album?

[mr.barlow]

Somebody said that it was imposibble to top the charts in this years to a 66 old musician? I Wonder if he/she/it knows what Black Sabbath is and what happened with their last album?

Did you read my post before posting this comment? If you did you will see that I said--to quote---"near impossible". It's a great thing that all posts are archived and can be instantly accessed to use as reference when someone decides to wrongly misquote you.

Black Sabbath is a great example of 60+ year old musicians who can top the charts. Although, you do understand that in the USA it was #1 for only one week and based on sales of 155,000 units (this can be verified at Billboard). Again--this is a great accomplishment--but also shows how far albums sales over all of music have drastically fallen. Miley Cyrus first week sales nearly doubled that of Sabbath when she entered at #1. Also the staying power of the younger artists in the Top 10 is much greater, as older artists sales peak in the first few weeks of sales as it is the fan base that is buying the product. After that they quickly tail off--as was the case with Sabbath. My point is that older artists like Alice & Sabbath do not come cloe to matching the chart success and sales of younger artists like Miley Cyrus, Beyonce, Katy Perry, etc. and I don't think they try to market themselves in that way. They focus on their established fan base and touring to keep their careers alive and thriving.

[Toronto Bob]

oh and water is wet.

[mr.barlow]

oh and water is wet.

the depth of your wit never ceases to amaze me.

[Daggers & Contracts]

oh and water is wet.

the depth of your wit never ceases to amaze me.

9 Ft. at the deep end is it? Is that w/wo a diving board???

[mr.barlow]

oh and water is wet.

the depth of your wit never ceases to amaze me.

9 Ft. at the deep end is it? Is that w/wo a diving board???

The deep end is often filled with shallow people.