Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:08 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
steven_crayn wrote: The fuel crisis is the reason given as the cost of transporting the trucks and the extensive lighting etc.. for the show would have gone up a lot.

This also had the knock on effect of putting up the price of coal and the power cuts that followed as a result of the 3 day week.

You may choose to call Alice Cooper a liar but he talks about it in these 2 interviews at the time

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy5jgc ... io-1_music

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xybyw8 ... 1974_music


Yes we can believe everything Alice says. From what Amuk says Alice has barely anything to do with where and when he plays.
who is believing everything Alice says? but it's pretty naive of you to deny that the fuel crisis wasn't the reason especially as you have given us no other reason why the European tour planned for that time never happened.
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:21 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>that without Shep Gordon the band might not have been as successful as they were.

There is a list of people - Bob Ezrin, Joe Greenberg, Jon Podell, Cindy Smith, Rosalie Trombley, Derek Taylor and no doubt, others as well.
agreed, I'd even go so far as to say that Bob Ezrin was even more important than Shep.

The bottom line is It's all about the music and the way he moulded the band to be a commercial force yet still musically credible, is the most important reason why Alice Cooper was so big peaking in 73.

At a time when records mattered the songs stepped up to another level after Easy Action which although showed the bands potential, was truly realised from Love It To Death through to Billion Dollar Babies and Ezrin was the catalyst.
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:33 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
mestreech wrote:I think WTMN is the best solo record without Some folks and Cold ethyl.

It would have been much tighter without Some Folks which is just schmaltzy. I agree with you about WTMN. If he'd have released GTH first he would have been in big trouble.
The album was better for Some Folks the second best song on the album after Steven.

Cold Ethyl is a classic rocker and a favourite of Slash who knows something about the rock business.

I think sometimes people get scared if they hear a horn section or a piano played with a jazz influence on an Alice Cooper record as if it hadn't been done before Welcome To My Nightmare! when we had Horns on Under My Wheels and a ragtime jazz piano and clarinet on Crazy Little Child.
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:37 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>The first one was a bloated cash grab and the second was a dishearteneing realization that no one in the organization was able to have the foresight and properly archive the band's history.

As previously discussed at another thread, that is not a very logical statement. With the exception of The Beatles (who were exceptional in almost everything they did) and possibly David Bowie, almost nobody who was in the middle of the craziness of the sixties and the seventies was interested in documenting their activities. It never occurred to them that almost fifty years later anyone would care and in relation to an "archive", both Neal and Dennis have their own extensive archives and Alice's own archive consist of literally thousands and thousands of individual items (and dozens of recordings) that you don't know even exist. Also, you are forgetting what Dennis has said many times which is that in the early days, they didn't have enough money to even create an "archive" in the first place and when they did have the resources, the pace of their lives was so frantic and hectic, they didn't have the time to do it.
That is a laughably erroneous statement coming from someone who purportedly likes to stick to facts.

Either way my statement stands - the thread asks what's my big disappointments.

Mind you, you have now contradicted yourself from previous statements and if indeed this post is true - Neal and Dennis have "extensive" archives and Alice has dozens of recordings that I don't know about - well than they did "hold out" on us by issuing a box set that contained primarily previously circulated recordings while holding on to "extensive archives" and "dozens f recordings I (we) don't know about.

Doesn't speak well either way I'm afraid.

Alice really needs a better advocate - you may single handedly destroy his loyal fanbase - ouch.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:49 pm

Crazy Little Child wrote:
darkmenace wrote:
Since people are griping I'll toss in something minor: It doesn't make sense to me that Alice consistently praises easy listening Burt Bacharach and wants to see him nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame but condemns modern acts like Mumford and Sons for not being Rock and Roll enough.
I can see where his like of lounge shmaltz is a real thing (just listen to the horns on WTMN, or "Some Folks" in it's entirety). But i think it's fair to say there's nothing in his music that really approaches country or folk (okay, there's "Umbangi Stomp", but that's about it), so i'm going to suggest it's just a matter of personal preference.

That said, i would agree with you that there are no shortage of country/folk tinged rock musicians who should be in the RnR Hall of Fame long before Bacharach!
Burt Bacharach and his main lyricist Hal David wrote some of the greatest songs ever recorded, whereas Mumford & Sons are not even worth mentioning in the same sentence.

Rock n Roll doesn't just describe a guitar based rock but was and sometines still is seen as a much less generic style of music.

It may have been used as a general adjective for "giving it a bit of stick" as Jethro Tull's guitarist Martin Barre once described it, but there was a time Soul music was also put under the umbrella of Rock n Roll, hence the inclusion of acts like Gladys Knight in the Hall Of Fame.

You only have to listen to Ernest Isley playing a rock guitar solo like on the Isley Brothers soul version of the Seals and Croft song Summer Breeze, to realise the greatest rock guitarist that ever lived ie Jimi Hendrix, once played guitar for them!
Last edited by steven_crayn on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by GNDM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:51 pm

I have no disappointments to report, concerning Alice's career. Well...OK...maybe one or two...i.e. the lack of reunion stuff after the RnRHOF stuff and the Whisky event.

However, I am willing to overlook those mistakes if he would send me the autographed picture he has of himself and Detroit Tiger baseball great, Al Kaline. I KNOW he has one! I am willing to accept a copy. Whomever is in charge of "the archives" - Find that picture!!! I will even promise never to publish a rather silly looking picture of Alice/Vince, hiding behind a fake plant on the Buxton porch. Find that picture Alice...I want it!

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by TodayMueller » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:10 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>- And, I even answered it without blaming her for not looking through this whole site to find it herself.
Just like that, piece of cake, see Andy ?

Yes. What a shame it wasn't the right answer in relation to Lucius Mothem's statement.

Pinkerton did not ask which show Lucius was referring to or why it was a disappointment, but "when was Alice in Chile ?"
Pretty straight forward question, which was answered with when he was not in Chile.

That's why I told her when he was. Who is incorrect ?
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mestreech » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 am

Toronto Bob wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:>did) almost nobody who was in the middle of the craziness of the sixties and the seventies was interested in documenting their activities. It never occurred to them that almost fifty years later anyone would care and in relation to an "archive", both Neal and Dennis have their own extensive archives and Alice's own archive consist of literally thousands and thousands of individual items (and dozens of recordings) that you don't know even exist. Also, you are forgetting what Dennis has said many times which is that in the early days, they didn't have enough money to even create an "archive" in the first place and when they did have the resources, the pace of their lives was so frantic and hectic, they didn't have the time to do it.
That is a laughably erroneous statement coming from someone who purportedly likes to stick to facts.

Either way my statement stands - the thread asks what's my big disappointments.

Mind you, you have now contradicted yourself from previous statements and if indeed this post is true - Neal and Dennis have "extensive" archives and Alice has dozens of recordings that I don't know about - well than they did "hold out" on us by issuing a box set that contained primarily previously circulated recordings while holding on to "extensive archives" and "dozens f recordings I (we) don't know about.

Doesn't speak well either way I'm afraid.

Alice really needs a better advocate - you may single handedly destroy his loyal fanbase - ouch.
So there are more unknown recordings? Why was so little used for the two boxes?

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by GailsFriend » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:46 am

The biggest disappointment in Alice's career is having people use red boxes on a forum discussing the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzsnortfartzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzboring.
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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by Toronto Bob » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:20 am

mestreech wrote: So there are more unknown recordings? Why was so little used for the two boxes?
That is an excellent question

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:23 am

>That is a laughably erroneous statement coming from someone who purportedly likes to stick to facts.

You don't explain why.

>Either way my statement stands

As does mine.

>well than they did "hold out" on us by issuing a box set that contained primarily previously circulated recordings while holding on to "extensive archives" and "dozens f recordings I (we) don't know about.

Because I'm not talking JUST about recordings. You referred to "history" and that's what I'm referring to. You wrote: "no one in the organization was able to have the foresight and properly archive the band's history." All I'm doing is pointing out that Dennis and Neal have their own items NOT JUST RECORDINGS which "archive the band's history" just as Brian Nelson did. Also, the recordings I referred to are primarly from the solo era - I was making the point that where possible, "history" is being taken care of even if it isn't the "history" you concerned with.

>well than they did "hold out" on us by issuing a box set that contained primarily previously circulated recordings while holding on to "extensive archives" and "dozens f recordings I (we) don't know about.

You would have to ask them that question. I believe the answer is no. Throughout the whole process, everyone was co - operative and helpful with their time and resources, providing recordings, anecdotes, photographs and other memorabilia. The recording from Madison Square Garden for instance, came from Neal (I would have liked a little bit more of it to be used). Also, for the billionth time, WE DON'T CARE that they were "previously circulated" (you mean as bootlegs, of course). Something like that WAS OUT OF OUR CONTROL. Originally five thousand or so units were manufactured. It is hugely unlikely that there are five thousand people of which ALL of them, already owned those recordings in some form. Again, for the billionth time, the box set was NOT designed PERSONALLY FOR YOU - do try and understand that. Also, the vast majority of unreleased recordings that I am referring to are from the solo era with only a few from the time that the band existed.

>Alice really needs a better advocate

Who said I was his "advocate"?

>you may single handedly destroy his loyal fanbase - ouch.

Yes - all hail me and my mighty power for I have the power and influence to control the thoughts and actions of thousands of people - see how they run and avert their gaze should they encounter my steely stare. Flee! All of you flee!
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:26 am

>Pinkerton did not ask which show Lucius was referring to or why it was a disappointment, but "when was Alice in Chile ?"

He only asked because Lucius referred to the cancelled show. His question didn't come from out of the blue or something.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:27 am

>So there are more unknown recordings? Why was so little used for the two boxes?

Mainly because the quality was very, very poor.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by mestreech » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:06 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>So there are more unknown recordings? Why was so little used for the two boxes?

Mainly because the quality was very, very poor.
ok

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:33 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Hardly false.

No, it's completely false. The implication in your statement was that the appearance was not cancelled due to "money". However, GNDM already explained the reality (I repeat, the reality, not what your prejudice tells you is the reality) about Alice's absence. Why was it so important to you that Alice attended Glen's funeral?

>So it wasn't a show it was a personal appearance he wouldn't cancel.

I can only refer you again to the answer that GNDM gave. If it doesn't fit your assumptions and preconceptions, that is out of his, or my, control.

> I seem to remember a quote like " the show must go on ". I think this quote was also used when BR died.

That is correct. Is there a problem?

I believe GDMN said Alice called Glen's parents. I don't believe he said they told Alice not to come nor did he say Alice said he wouldn't come as it would
be a circus with Alice attending. Can't you read?

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:46 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>From what Amuk says Alice has barely anything to do with where and when he plays.

What I said is irrelevant because Alice has said it himself - whether you believe him or not is for you to decide. As usual you're missing the point - even if he DID have "anything to do with" it, he didn't have "anything to do with" the fuel crisis of 1974 and while I don't doubt there may have been other reasons, there's no question the cost of fuel may have made it extremely expensive to bring that show over and even today, the price of fuel can have an impact on a tour's profits and I assume you know that the price of fuel affects the price of almost every product and service you and I buy, so I'm not sure why you'd think a rock tour back then would have been any different.

Prior to BDB's Alice Cooper played no more than a handful of shows in the UK. The BDB’s tour dress rehearsal began Mar 27 and ran through June 7. There was never ANY serious consideration to tour the UK fuel crisis or not. The band were out to conquer the US and Canada which had fsr bigger venues. When was this proposed tour going to happen?

From Sick Things ( there's also a similar Whitehouse quote )

In June of 73, Alice received a lot of press in the Uk due to the attempts of one Leo Abse. Abse had taken exception to Alice and tried to get him banned from entering the Country. Alice reaped the rewards of the publicity while keeping relatively quiet about the fact that the band had no plans to tour the UK anyway.

As TB said " My statement stands ". This thread is about your biggest disappointment not Amuk's lets defend Alice at all costs and attempt to dissect every post.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:07 pm

>I believe GDMN said Alice called Glen's parents. I don't believe he said they told Alice not to come nor did he say Alice said he wouldn't come as it would
be a circus with Alice attending. Can't you read?

I don't understand your point. There is nothing your statement that is different to what I wrote. Would you explain?

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:16 pm

No.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:16 pm

>There was never ANY serious consideration to tour the UK fuel crisis or not.

How do you know?

>The band were out to conquer the US and Canada which had fsr bigger venues. When was this proposed tour going to happen?

In the early part of 1974 I believe. Alice talked about it while being interviewed for "Muscle Of Love". That is why he kept having to explain the lack of a tour in in 1974 when he was in London in 1974 as well. Do you see the connection?

>Alice reaped the rewards of the publicity while keeping relatively quiet about the fact that the band had no plans to tour the UK anyway.

The Abse thing was 1973 - the proposed tour 1974, so on that basis, it would be great if you would explain your point.

>As TB said " My statement stands ".

The evidence is to the contrary but I'm happy for it to go to a vote.

> This thread is about your biggest disappointment not Amuk's lets defend Alice at all costs and attempt to dissect every post.

Again, you're mixing up scepticism with cynicism. By the way, I'm still waiting to hear from you about the publishing which you were so sure Shep had made a mistake about. Also, I'm still waiting to hear if you asked Dennis your question about his medical bill. Do make sure you post his reply. Also, I'd like to know why it was important to you whether Alice attended Glen's funeral or not. Also, if you have a problem with Alice being a Christian or not.

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Re: Your biggest disappointment in Alice's career

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:18 pm

>No.

Brilliant. In that case, let the record show that you are unable or unwilling to explain your post. On that basis, others are free to determine for themselves how credible your posts are.

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