why do people hate ACAS?

[pinkerton]

"Vengeance is mine" should of been a bigger hit than "Poison".

I love the song, but I don't it really has main stream pop appeal. Trash was made to be as commercial viable as possible. I think that time period in general is Alice trying to show he's still a bankable act. I think now-a-days Alice is making the records that make him happiest and is not so concerned about charting.

[evil syd]

"Vengeance is mine" should of been a bigger hit than "Poison".

I love the song, but I don't it really has main stream pop appeal. Trash was made to be as commercial viable as possible. I think that time period in general is Alice trying to show he's still a bankable act. I think now-a-days Alice is making the records that make him happiest and is not so concerned about charting.

Great point! I just wish he would still play it live.

[While Heaven Wept]

In answer to the original question...

...because it's a very poor album

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think it's a good attempt to step up and bring back the old dark Alice.

That is a really important point. For all its faults, the album did indeed "bring back the old dark Alice" which highlights a possible dilemma. Does he concentrate on making the best album that he can, or does he concentrate on making the best 'Alice Cooper' album that he can? Those can be two separate things.

[sickthing]

>I think it's a good attempt to step up and bring back the old dark Alice.

That is a really important point. For all its faults, the album did indeed "bring back the old dark Alice" which highlights a possible dilemma. Does he concentrate on making the best album that he can, or does he concentrate on making the best 'Alice Cooper' album that he can? Those can be two separate things.

True. But then again, the preceding albums (Eyes, Diamonds) were far from the dark Alice image but still weren't the strongest albums, although somewhat better than ACAS. And W2MN was definitely something done to recapture the old image and was stronger than ACAS.

[A_MichaelUK]

>the preceding albums (Eyes, Diamonds) were far from the dark Alice image but still weren't the strongest albums, although somewhat better than ACAS.

There is the dilemma.

[sickthing]

But then Last Temptation and Brutal Planet are two of his best and both are 'dark' at least in terms of the concept/lyrics.

[A_MichaelUK]

>But then Last Temptation and Brutal Planet are two of his best and both are 'dark' at least in terms of the concept/lyrics.

I agree (although they were "dark" in different ways and also being "dark" isn't just what Alice Cooper is about). I also agree that they "are two of his best" but that's subjective. I think that whether an Alice album sounds like an Alice album is less subjective because those elements are somewhat more identifiable.

[steven_crayn]

it divided a lot of fans it was like marmite you either loved it or hated it.

At the time I thought it was pretty good but I have to admit it hasn't stood the test of time and its only been 5 years.

That's the way it can go sometimes.

In 1975 as a kid I got a big shock when I bought Welcome To My Nightmare and on first play I didn't get it but within a week it was as good as anything that had gone before and nearly 40 years later I still think it is as good as anything the band or the solo artist has ever done.

Time is the only test

[pinkerton]

Great point! I just wish he would still play it live.

yeah, I guess he doesn't play many songs from ACAS live. It must be hell for him to put together a live set list.

I've seen Alice 3 times, all different tours over a span of 15 years and after the 3rd time I was a little disappointed by the song selection. They were all great, but I'd heard most of them live and there were very few surprises.

RUSH is kind of the same way. Enjoy all the shows I've seen but I got bored with seeing the same thing tour after tour.

[While Heaven Wept]

At the time I thought it was pretty good but I have to admit it hasn't stood the test of time and its only been 5 years.

Ahem!! I told you sooo!!

[steven_crayn]

At the time I thought it was pretty good but I have to admit it hasn't stood the test of time and its only been 5 years.

Ahem!! I told you sooo!!

you hated it and your criticism of the lyrics in particular were unfair, I don't hate it and still think it was a good album just not stood the test of time which is the only true measure of greatness, but lets not open that can of worms again!

[While Heaven Wept]

but lets not open that can of worms again!

Haha, agreed!

[pinkerton]

I think it has "aged" fine. Its only been 5 years. I play it more than "eyes/diamonds/w2mnm."

[While Heaven Wept]

I think it has "aged" fine. Its only been 5 years. I play it more than "eyes/diamonds/w2mnm."

Good for you

But you're wrong

[patrick]

[quote="sickthing"]I think the biggest problem with ACAS is that there was so much promise surrounding it - the artwork was really good, the concept (as originally announced) sounded very intriguing, the promo videos were great....and then the actual music just fell flat.

that's my feeling too: so much effort put in it, but the actual feel of the album , imho, is not fluent enough, if you know what I mean, compared to WTMNM2 or TEOAC, to name a few.
wonder what Bob Ezrin would have made of it ?

[pinkerton]

I think it has "aged" fine. Its only been 5 years. I play it more than "eyes/diamonds/w2mnm."

Good for you

But you're wrong

right, wrong.... you're living in a closed mindset. these things don't actually exist. You've convinced yourself that do to make yourself feel superior. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news. Perhaps you can take this moment to improve yourself and become a more productive member of humanity.

Do check in and let us know how its going from time to time.

[steven_crayn]

I think it has "aged" fine. Its only been 5 years. I play it more than "eyes/diamonds/w2mnm."

Good for you

But you're wrong

right, wrong.... you're living in a closed mindset. these things don't actually exist. You've convinced yourself that do to make yourself feel superior. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news. Perhaps you can take this moment to improve yourself and become a more productive member of humanity.

Do check in and let us know how its going from time to time.

In fairness to While Heaven Wept he has very strong opinions on the album and you weren't even a member of this forum when the arguments about the album got really heated mainly between him and me!

Right and wrong do actually exist even in opinions for example If someone said that in their opinion the album was better than say Killer they would be wrong even though in their opinion they thought they were right.

My opinion of the album has changed because 5 years on it hasn't stood the test of time even though at the time I liked it a lot more. I was in contact with the producer before it came out as I submitted a song for the album that didn't make it even though the producer liked it, but I still really liked the album but find it hard to listen to now apart from Vengeance Is Mine which is a Cooper classic.

That's the way it goes sometimes things don't always sound as good 5 years on and for some they never sounded good now matter how many times they play it.

[recoop]

Interestingly I listened to 4 tracks from ACAS the other day and added When Hell Comes Home from Welcome 2...good mini album... I liked ACAS...only slightly cooled...I was around for the previous debate etc and so I must be wrong too...haha..don't like the handclapping myself...And I think "Vengeance" is close to classic Cooper too..the video is brilliant imo..."The one that got away" is a bit sick e.g."boot of my car" but is also near classic Cooper as is "I am the Spider"..Intro good for me too...most Alice albums have some very good material imo...I disliked Salvation and still do...still a good album for me which ties in with the evil Alice concept.. I would buy it again

[old school vet]

recoop wrote -I would buy it again

I have a spare copy you can have for a Tenner...Lol