A Connection...

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andyrew
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A Connection...

Post by andyrew » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:31 am

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but a couple years ago, i realized there seems to be a link between DaDa and WTMN. Specifically the song Enough's Enough and Only Women Bleed. Enough's Enough is like a sequel to Only Women Bleed with how Steven feels about his father after the abuse that took place. There's also another link to When Hell Comes Home.

Just thought I'd point it out cause its interesting how from different decades, albums and songs, the whole Steven concept really stretches across Alice's career.

Thoughts?

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Re: A Connection...

Post by Inmate » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:09 am

I think you're onto something! :blues: I've never really thought about this. I think you could be right. :alice:
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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:19 am

>Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but a couple years ago, i realized there seems to be a link between DaDa and WTMN. Specifically the song Enough's Enough and Only Women Bleed. Enough's Enough is like a sequel to Only Women Bleed with how Steven feels about his father after the abuse that took place.

I disagree. I believe the main character throughout “DaDa” is Sonny, not Steven and while "Enough's Enough" implies there has been domestic abuse, that song goes beyond that.

>Just thought I'd point it out cause its interesting how from different decades, albums and songs, the whole Steven concept really stretches across Alice's career.

Yes and there’s “Wind – Up Toy”, “The Last Temptation” and “Along Came A Spider” as well although in “Along Came A Spider”, ‘Steven’ appears to be just a spider.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by patrick » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:28 am

i too think that Sonny stands on his own as a character and it fits throughout the album imo.
Wind-up Toy has got a link with Steven, and nightmare(s), but did not seem to fit in the Hey Stoopid album, again, imo, although it is a great song.
Why did Alice add this song ?to make this connection with his previous work ?( whereas after Trash he could have been pretty sure about the succes of HS,as an album on its own ?)
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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:08 am

>to make this connection with his
previous work ?

Not specifically. It was just a great song and he knew some people would notice the reference.

>( whereas after Trash he could have been pretty sure about the succes of HS,as an album on its own ?)

I don't think that he thinks that by adding a reference to Steven, he will be more successful. That would be kind of strange, if so.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by andyrew » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:29 am

It's weird that Sonny experiences the exact same themes as what happens to Steven in Only Women Bleed throughout Enough's Enough. That's what got me thinking that there could be a connection as opposed to a separate character being explored even though his name is Sonny. Could Sonny be a nickname to hide his pain from being Steven in WTM? Steven thought he was a man, so maybe he's thinking he's another person with another name in DaDa.

Anyways, keeping this realistic, I'm sure your correct Andy. It's always interesting to see how Steven keeps reappearing in different albums with random appearances. Makes me want to explore the creativity at work with Alice and how he can make us all speculate. Truly a fascinating thing.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:15 pm

It's weird that Sonny experiences the exact same themes as what happens to Steven in Only Women Bleed throughout Enough's Enough.

Well no. The victim in "Only Women Bleed" is a woman and if Steven is involved, then he's the one commenting on that situation.

>Could Sonny be a nickname to hide his pain from being Steven in WTM?

It seems unecessarily complicated considering people have been tying themselves in knots over the years trying to work out who Steven is. I think if there ever had been a connection between those albums, Alice would have stated that.

>Steven thought he was a man, so maybe he's thinking he's another person with another name in DaDa.

It is all open to interpretation and you're certainly free to interpret it that way.

>It's always interesting to see how Steven keeps reappearing in different albums with random appearances.

Yes and the fact that nothing is clearly defined allows you to create your own story using the lyrics as a guide. That is what you would do if you wrote a screenplay or comic - book based on those songs.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by recoop » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:30 pm

Alice is, as we know, extremely good at leaving things open/playing with his audiences mind-he's been doing it well for 40 odds years-the more definitive Alice is the less there is for the imagination-Bob Dylan used to say that he wanted his lyrics to be open to interpretation by fans and didn't like producing videos. I am stretching it I know but what if there are several Stevens- e.g. Steven being an expression of an emotion/or that Steven represents every frightened child. One of his most clever songs lyrically imo "Pain" puts pain into different contexts- so I think Alice might not even think of Steven as one character but a means to express fear, vulnerability etc
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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:36 pm

> Alice might not even think of Steven as one character but a means to express fear, vulnerability etc

Exactly. He has referred to him as "Alice's innocent side", so it is a character within a character, which is where it becomes complicated.
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by Lucius Morthem » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:38 pm

in No Man's Land it stated there were 4 personalities...Maybe Steven and Sonny are more connected than what we all think

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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:27 pm

>in No Man's Land it stated there were 4 personalities...Maybe Steven and Sonny are more connected than what we all think

It isn't impossible, but again, I think Alice would have at least hinted at it.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by Lucius Morthem » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:19 pm

mmm Well that's true but Alice hasn't talked that much about DaDa

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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:57 pm

>mmm Well that's true but Alice hasn't talked that much about DaDa

That is true but he has spoken a lot about Steven though and he could have mentioned it when doing that.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by MrD Returns » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Some of ya'll are actually listening to DaDa. Really?
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Re: A Connection...

Post by Lucius Morthem » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:31 pm

I Have always think DaDa's great! ( Also I Doubt Alice would mention any conection because...He wouldn't remember ? I Mean he said he doesn't remember recording, I Doubt he remembers the principal idea

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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:56 pm

>Also I Doubt Alice would mention any conection because...He wouldn't remember ? I Mean he said he doesn't remember recording, I Doubt he remembers the principal idea

You are really clutching at straws now, I think. Maybe the album is about Pee - Wee Herman since Alice has never mentioned him either.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by andyrew » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:27 am

Who knows...there could have been a lot of things going on in Alice's head in the blackout years. Things that related to WTMN and Steven could have been subconsciously placed in other albums during the 80s even if Alice was focusing on a different concept at the time.

We all don't know...but I still enjoy these different perspectives and interpretations cause the lyrics can be interpreted in so many wayd and makes our imagination stretch that much more.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by pitkin88 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:37 am

I'd love to read an interview with him just talking about Da Da and his treatment by Warner during this time.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:08 am

>I'd love to read an interview with him just talking about Da Da and his treatment by Warner during this time.

Alice knew the relationship was coming to an end and by that point, he didn't really care. The documentary will be covering this period I think, but I don't know how many details there will be.

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Re: A Connection...

Post by killer wolf » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:48 am

i don't see why people think EVERY song needs to be connected. No Man's Land is nothing but a daft light-hearted song, nothing to do w/ the narrator being Steven, as far as i can see.
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