THE Originals........

[pitkin88]

>His first solo album recorded in 75-75 didn't get a release until 83

It was actually released in West Germany in 1975 I believe (but, yes, that was a limited circulation).

> and then on some odd Euro label with zero promotion behind it.

It was actually an American company.

> I would guess the lack of re union shows have played a big part in his decision.

Again, it's possible but as I say, Neal and Dennis didn't see it as a deterrent.

I stand corrected. Probably ordered it from Europe. It was a long time ago. I was very disappointed when I heard it. As for Dennis and Neal I'm really only talking Mike here.

[pitkin88]

>I would add the excuse that the " promoters " had no interest too.

You should tell that to Dennis then since he has also stated that as a possible reason.

The promoters have NO interest who Alice's band is. It matters not to them who plays guitar whether it's Orianthi or Mike Bruce. So why not take the boys?

[A_MichaelUK]

>I was very disappointed when I heard it.

Many people were. On a broader point, there's nothing wrong with no longer being at the peak of one's powers as writer or musician. I do think that some people here think any inspiration to be creative can be switched on and off at will. Even if Michael never writes another song, it won't detract from his past achievements.

>As for Dennis and Neal I'm really only talking Mike here.

I understand that, but given you don't really know a lot about Michael's current circumstances, you will agree that there could be other reasons for his low - profile.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The promoters have NO interest who Alice's band is.

How do you know? Also who said their interest was about the specific personnel anyway? Promoters have other concerns too. Any reunion would probably have to be very short for various reasons and a short tour isn't going to be that viable. I always said that if such a short tour took place, the minimum ticket price should be $200 or so. That could make it more viable but it would also deter some people from buying tickets, so there is less incentive for promoters to make any appropriate offers. Besides, it still hasn't stopped Dennis citing that as a possible reason. Now might be a good time to look over or revive any previous threads on this subject if you want to continue it.

[pitkin88]

>The promoters have NO interest who Alice's band is.

How do you know? Besides, it still hasn't stopped Dennis citing that as a possible reason. Now might be a good time to look over or revive any previous threads on this subject if you want to continue it.

Can you show me something where the promoter has a say as to who is in an artists band? You made a similar stupid remark about set lists. Now might be a good time to **** or get off the pot.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Can you show me something where the promoter has a say as to who is in an artists band?

I just said there interest would not necessarily be about personnel. Read what I wrote. You're the one who brought that up.

> You made a similar stupid remark about set lists. Now might be a good time to **** or get off the pot.

It is not unusual for promoters to insist that an artist play specific songs. A good example is the number of promoters who, after the relatively unsuccessful "Glass Spider" tour, kept pestering David Bowie to put on a 'greatest hits tour' which he eventually did. So it isn't a "stupid remark" but then again, I'm willing to bet you don't have any acquaintances who are involved in the touring business. If you had, you might have picked up a lot of knowledge as well. Also, to spell it out further for you, if a promoter had ever made an insane offer, you can be sure there would have been a reunion. I am not denying Alice holds a lot of cards but it isn't a cut and dried as you might think.

[pitkin88]

" Pestering "? Hardly telling an artist what to play. When was the " Glass Spider " 83 or something? You have no evidence to back up anything with Alice. I was not talking about insane offers either. I was saying the promoter could give two who is in Alice's touring band.

[A_MichaelUK]

> Hardly telling an artist what to play.

Really? Being told you will receive better financial offers and so make more money if you play the hits, can be pretty persuasive. As a matter of fact, Bowie went through that situation twice - once in 1990 then again in 1996 when after the moderately received "Outside" tour, Bowie started bringing back the hits again. Do you think promoters would have charged people up to $250 (reportedly) to see the Elton John show, "Red Piano", if they thought he wasn't going to play his hit songs?

>When was the " Glass Spider " 83 or something?

It was 1987 but I don't see what difference that makes.

>You have no evidence to back up anything with Alice.

I didn't say I did! I said it happens in that industry. You are the one who said you didn't believe the excuse about promoters but you said that event though "You have no evidence" either. That is why I asked you to tell it to Dennis as well. Why don't you do that? Maybe he's telling the truth and maybe he isn't (I have always found him to be scrupulously honest) but you'll have to find that out. Maybe he was just repeating what he was told. Who knows? Why don't you find out?

> I was not talking about insane offers either.

You should be, because that (for the most part) is what drives that industry. Profit. It is a business, not a place for idealists who think the music business is like an episode of "The Monkees" or something.

>I was saying the promoter could give two who is in Alice's touring band.

I don't think I said he did.

[pitkin88]

Give me Dennis's phone number or an e-mail address if you prefer and I will do just that.

Whether Bowie changed his mind after a tour is irrelevant. He was NOT told what to play by a promoter.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Give me Dennis's phone number or an e-mail address if you prefer and I will do just that.

He can be reached on Facebook, so you can look him up and make contact.

>Whether Bowie changed his mind after a tour is irrelevant. He was NOT told what to play by a promoter.

He was told it would be worth his while - I'm not sure why or how you think that is different. How about the Elton John example I gave? The required songs there were specified because theatrical routines were being designed by director that the promoter had hired. This kind of thing happens a lot on the club scene as well.

[pitkin88]

It would have probably been worth his while to carry on as Ziggy so what. I will let you know if I hear from Dennis. Just to clarify a couple of points, no promoter has ever told Alice what songs to play and who he should have in his stage band. Is that correct with your intimate knowledge of how these things work?

[GNDM]

" Pestering "? Hardly telling an artist what to play. When was the " Glass Spider " 83 or something? You have no evidence to back up anything with Alice. I was not talking about insane offers either. I was saying the promoter could give two shits who is in Alice's touring band.

Yes....Dennis has said that they were told, after the HOF, that promoters were not interested in booking the original band for shows. Now...this is my opinion, and I have no evidence to back it up...I think what actually was said was that promoters were not interested in booking 'Alice Cooper band' at the rate Alive desired. The 3 members, not named Alice, would have possibly sought a larger percentage of the take than Alice's current band receives. Thus Alive,(etc) would have asked for more money for a show to cover Alice's short fall. If my scenario did occur....and again, I have no facts to support it....the promoters DID care who ''the band'' was, because they were being asked to pay a larger sum and/or takes less of a profit.

[pitkin88]

Assuming that was the case do you believe that the 3 would have not taken the rate Alice pays his touring band? The three basically have zero bargaining power. I do not believe for one minute that they would demand the same cut as Alice.

[mestreech]

Hey GNDM please go back with posting those terrific pictures!

[GNDM]

Assuming that was the case do you believe that the 3 would have not taken the rate Alice pays his touring band? The three basically have zero bargaining power. I do not believe for one minute that they would demand the same cut as Alice.

I would hope they wouldn't taken that rate - or even be asked to. Perhaps not equal share with Alice...but, if it was me, I would be insulted if offered the base pay the current members get. But that is my opinion. Could be wrong.

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Unfortunately, it always comes down to money. Promoters & record labels always dictated which songs should be promoted (released as a single) & played live. Now that the traditional music industry is virtually gone, bands rely more on concerts for income. i.e.- album sales used to be the main source of revenue while concerts promoted the product. The reverse has happened because of downloading. An album can sell 10,000 copies now & hit the top 10, while years ago, 10,000 units moved would probably land it in the top 100. As for the Bowie debate, I believe Andy was correct when noting that the label wanted a "hits" tour following the weak sales of Glass Spiders".

[pitkin88]

Assuming that was the case do you believe that the 3 would have not taken the rate Alice pays his touring band? The three basically have zero bargaining power. I do not believe for one minute that they would demand the same cut as Alice.

I would hope they wouldn't taken that rate - or even be asked to. Perhaps not equal share with Alice...but, if it was me, I would be insulted if offered the base pay the current members get. But that is my opinion. Could be wrong.

I'm guessing his backing band is compensated very well. I doubt the 3 would price themselves out of the chance of playing their hits to a live audience. I don't believe it is all about money for the three I truly believe they just want to play as their band Alice Cooper.

[GNDM]

I'm guessing his backing band is compensated very well. I doubt the 3 would price themselves out of the chance of playing their hits to a live audience. I don't believe it is all about money for the three I truly believe they just want to play as their band Alice Cooper.

Again....just saying if it was ME....the pride thing would be an influence on what I'd expect monetarily. MY thoughts would be along the lines of: "I" am in the RnRHOF, "Gold Records on the wall"....etc.

But your last sentence puts every thing in proper perspective (at least for me)..."I don't think it is about money for the three...."

[GNDM]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59749761@N05/9176625041/

One of the Spider pics taken by Glen's dad.

[Robbie]

Pitkin and GNDM seem to be suggesting (and please accept my apologies if I have summarised incorrectly)that Alice holds the power in this relationship and no reunion will take until Alice decides it is worthwhile.
I believe that Alice's success as a live draw today is due in no small part to the fact that he has a group of younger musicians with him. I suspect if he toured with the original band a good proportion of the audience-especially the younger ones- wouldn't even realise the significance and (would probably care even less) for they have only ever known solo Alice.
Moreover, I actually sometimes feel quite sad when I see reunions of bands from my youth for it's an unpalatable fact that time is not always kind. This is not 1972, and the glorious impact of the original band was from a different age.It would be like asking Bowie to re unite with Ronson, Bolder and Woodmansey (when Ronson and Bolder were still alive) in the hope of re creating the magic of Ziggy Stardust.That wouldn't have worked either.
I honestly believe Alice knows (beyond odd reunion appearance, guest spots etc.) that you can't re -create the past. Worse still, by attempting to, you risk tarnishing the memories.