Not this time

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Gorehound, Si, SickThings, Devon, Shoesalesman

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:14 pm

Alicebackstage wrote:

I can't tell you why we didn't do a W2MN tour. I honestly don't know and......... I am next to him 24 hours a day.

Pitkin88 wrote:

I cut out a huge piece of the post between the first part of the quote and the second comment just so we wouldn't have to read it again. My question is this: If you are next to Alice 24hrs a day why not ask him?. If we got the answer from the horses mouth ( I am not that bothered but others are ) it would solve a lot of bickering and speculation ( which some here seem very frightened of ).

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:25 pm

>If you are next to Alice 24hrs a day why not ask him?.

It isn't entirely his decision though. As I pointed out in a previous post, there are financial realities that even Alice has to work within as much as anyone else does.

> If we got the answer from the horses mouth ( I am not that bothered but others are ) it would solve a lot of bickering and speculation ( which some here seem very frightened of ).

No, not "frightened" but bored with and irritated by it, I think. There is nothing wrong with speculating when it is done in an interesting, creative and constructive way but plenty wrong with it when it reinforces incorrect assumptions and prejudices.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:35 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:Exactly how many times does this subject need to be discussed on this board?!

If you don't like the current show, don't go to it. End of.

If you don't like the current thread don't post in it. End of. If there is no interest it will die on the vine.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:41 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>If you are next to Alice 24hrs a day why not ask him?.

It isn't entirely his decision though. As I pointed out in a previous post, there are financial realities that even Alice has to work within as much as anyone else does.

> If we got the answer from the horses mouth ( I am not that bothered but others are ) it would solve a lot of bickering and speculation ( which some here seem very frightened of ).

No, not "frightened" but bored with and irritated by it, I think. There is nothing wrong with speculating when it is done in an interesting, creative and constructive way but plenty wrong with it when it reinforces incorrect assumptions and prejudices.

Ok. Assuming that is correct. Alice would still know the answer ie " we decided it wasn't financially viable ( which I would speculate was a big part of it )or the management decided it wasn't viable. The picture you often paint of Alice is that he is a puppet not knowing what is going on.

User avatar
SickThings
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 764
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Contact:

Re: Not this time

Post by SickThings » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:49 pm

pitkin88 wrote:Ok. Assuming that is correct. Alice would still know the answer ie " we decided it wasn't financially viable ( which I would speculate was a big part of it )or the management decided it wasn't viable.
Why ask him? It's clear that's the reason. We don't know why it wasn't financially viable, but it's pretty safe to say that it wasn't. If it had been, they'd have done it. Alice said in plenty of interviews he'd like to. As I stated earlier, that was the plan. The fact that it didn't happen is pretty clearly financial, whether because they kept getting festival gigs, as happened in 2011, or because they investment would have been too great (or possibly other reasons). It's really none of our business.

Hunter

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:05 pm

SickThings wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:Ok. Assuming that is correct. Alice would still know the answer ie " we decided it wasn't financially viable ( which I would speculate was a big part of it )or the management decided it wasn't viable.
Why ask him? It's clear that's the reason. We don't know why it wasn't financially viable, but it's pretty safe to say that it wasn't. If it had been, they'd have done it. Alice said in plenty of interviews he'd like to. As I stated earlier, that was the plan. The fact that it didn't happen is pretty clearly financial, whether because they kept getting festival gigs, as happened in 2011, or because they investment would have been too great (or possibly other reasons). It's really none of our business.

Hunter

It is? Why did Alicebackstage said he had no idea then? Please stop with the non of our business crap we are not asking personal questions about his family or whatever.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:35 pm

>Ok. Assuming that is correct. Alice would still know the answer

Who says he does not? Also, why is it SO important to you that you hear it directly from him though? He moved on from that issue immediately, so I'm not sure why some people are unable to do the same.

>ie " we decided it wasn't financially viable ( which I would speculate was a big part of it )or the management decided it wasn't viable.

Those are the same, so I'm not sure what the alternative is that you are suggesting.

>The picture you often paint of Alice is that he is a puppet not knowing what is going on.

I don't see how you can extrapolate anything even close to that from anything I have written. As an artist, his primary concern is his art. That doesn't mean that his art is not affected by economic realities.
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:41 pm

>whether because they kept getting festival gigs,

This is another factor that a lot of people are ignorant of. Alice plays a lot of festivals, especially in Europe and you can't just turn up with a big, theatrical show and just plug it into a festival production. It doesn't work like that. Also, I can assure anyone interested (and in all honesty, I'm referring to anyone who wants to treat the subject in a serious way, not just anyone who wants to make ignorant or ill - informed comments from the safety of their keyboard) that Alice had one particular idea to use in a show which WOULD NEVER BE PRACTICAL to use outdoors at a festival. If Alice gets offered a lot of festivals and state fairs (which he does) and also relatively smaller (but more lucrative) casino shows, then those are the venues he has to perform in and if those are the venues he has to perform in, then it becomes less likely that he will be able to do exactly the kind of show some people here seem to want (although they rarely define what that might be).
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:44 pm

>Why did Alicebackstage said he had no idea then?

That is because his job is to take care of Alice and not too concern himself too much with the business realities which are often decided on before rehearsals EVEN begin and unfortunately, you are assuming those realities are his concern. It isn't that he is completely unaware of them, but they are not among his priorities.

>Please stop with the non of our business crap we are not asking personal questions about his family or whatever.

Does that mean that his finances are "our business"? Just because something is not "personal" doesn't give us the right to be told EVERYTHING about what else is happening.

User avatar
SickThings
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 764
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Contact:

Re: Not this time

Post by SickThings » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:01 pm

pitkin88 wrote:
SickThings wrote: Why ask him? It's clear that's the reason.

It is?
Seems obvious to me. They announced they were planning a W2MN tour in the fall of 2011. As I mentioned in a previous post, Alice talked about it in interviews, Shep told me personally, Steve Hunter told me that, members of the crew told me that was the plan. But the plans changed. Why did they change? Well, I doubt it was because of creative issues, since they already had plans. That says that it was most likely financial, either because it was financially lucrative to keep taking the festival gigs and others that were offered or that it wasn't financially lucrative to put on the show they wanted. Either way, it comes down to finances. And those are none of our business, just as your personal finances are none of our business.

Hunter

Desperado22
Fashion Flusher
Fashion Flusher
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Dragontown

Re: Not this time

Post by Desperado22 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:57 am

frontrowjunkie wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
Desperado22 wrote:Despite the fact that the setlist for RTD isn't great, it's still a fun show and I loved every minute of it when I saw him in Bouremouth last Halloween.
I think "House of Fire" and "He's Back" are pretty cool tunes in the set. I really hope the are back for the solo shows. I love "Caffeine" in the set too.
I also love those songs... However neither He's Back nor Caffeine had been added to the set list yet when Alice played Bournemouth last year. As for the current US shows, according to Kyler's post earlier on, the set list had to be shortened for the AC/MM tour due to time limitations, so I would guess the songs should be back once he does his own thing again (probably July)

Actually, both of those songs were played in Bournemouth last year :).
There are a few gems in the RTD tour. While I think it's his weakest setlist in years, I still loved every minute of the show. Alice never puts on a bad show so I still had a great night.
All Of My Life Was A Laugh And A Joke
And A Drink And A Smoke
And Then I Passed Out On The Floor

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:20 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Ok. Assuming that is correct. Alice would still know the answer

Who says he does not? Also, why is it SO important to you that you hear it directly from him though? He moved on from that issue immediately, so I'm not sure why some people are unable to do the same.

>ie " we decided it wasn't financially viable ( which I would speculate was a big part of it )or the management decided it wasn't viable.

Those are the same, so I'm not sure what the alternative is that you are suggesting.

>The picture you often paint of Alice is that he is a puppet not knowing what is going on.

I don't see how you can extrapolate anything even close to that from anything I have written. As an artist, his primary concern is his art. That doesn't mean that his art is not affected by economic realities.

I thought it would be good for us to hear it from " him " as he is close to the source and we would be avoiding " speculation " for the billionith time. Why do we need to immediately move on? Is asking further questions against the rules. Are you frightened of hearing an answer from Alice? I don't get it.

How do you know Alice's concern is primarily art? If it was it could be argued he would play what he wants and not what a promoter wants ( or so you say ). I'd say art and money might might be equal concerns.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4319
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Not this time

Post by pitkin88 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:32 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Why did Alicebackstage said he had no idea then?

That is because his job is to take care of Alice and not too concern himself too much with the business realities which are often decided on before rehearsals EVEN begin and unfortunately, you are assuming those realities are his concern. It isn't that he is completely unaware of them, but they are not among his priorities.

>Please stop with the non of our business crap we are not asking personal questions about his family or whatever.

Does that mean that his finances are "our business"? Just because something is not "personal" doesn't give us the right to be told EVERYTHING about what else is happening.

I'm not assuming anything For the billionith time I am trying to avoid speculation. Remember that word that seems to get you all mad. Are you saying Alice backstage and Alice only talk business 24hrs a day? He is on this board of his own will and is open to providing insight and answering questions. I don't believe it is against his priorities or he wouldn't have time to post. If it is against company policy or he is scared to ask that question then so be it..we move on.

If a member of Alice's entourage talks finances here then I would say it is fair game to comment. Don't need to know EVERYTHING!! as you put it. A simple it wasn't cost effective would suffice.

User avatar
Dannorama
Fashion Flusher
Fashion Flusher
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:00 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by Dannorama » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:48 am

I don't know the first thing about music, other than I know what I like.

Here's what I think: It is very easy to drive when you are only the passenger. I have to believe that it is wise to let the business measures be handled by the business guys, while art gets handled by the artistic guys. Alice has final word overall, no doubt. BUT, before he gives his final word, he has had numerous advisories, consultations, and other meetings. This is not just one man's choice. Alice is a business. I suggest that we enjoy it while we can.
Move aside, mere drop of water - let the ocean pass.

User avatar
frontrowjunkie
Killer
Killer
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:36 pm
Location: Echterdingen

Re: Not this time

Post by frontrowjunkie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:26 am

Desperado22 wrote:
frontrowjunkie wrote:I also love those songs... However neither He's Back nor Caffeine had been added to the set list yet when Alice played Bournemouth last year. As for the current US shows, according to Kyler's post earlier on, the set list had to be shortened for the AC/MM tour due to time limitations, so I would guess the songs should be back once he does his own thing again (probably July)
Actually, both of those songs were played in Bournemouth last year :).
There are a few gems in the RTD tour. While I think it's his weakest setlist in years, I still loved every minute of the show. Alice never puts on a bad show so I still had a great night.
OK, then it must have ben one of the first shows they were included. They were not on the set list for the first couple of shows. I thought they had been added after that.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:39 am

>I thought it would be good for us to hear it from " him " as he is close to the source and we would be avoiding " speculation " for the billionith time.

That is a confusing (to me, at least) statement. You originally asked to hear from Alice himself but you now suggest you're referring to alicebackstage instead. In any case, the answer is more or less the same which is that Alice really doesn’t care about what is such a relatively trivial matter. He doesn’t care if there is "speculation" on this site or not. He barely knows it even exists.

> Why do we need to immediately move on?

Because Alice has. Why are you treating this issue far more seriously than he is?

>Is asking further questions against the rules.

It depends on the “questions”.

>Are you frightened of hearing an answer from Alice?

No. Why would I be?

>I don't get it.

That is VERY true.

>How do you know Alice's concern is primarily art?

Because I have spent a good chunk of the last twenty - seven years watching him and his ‘people’ operate from a fairly close distance. He really does not get involved in the business decisions (as he himself has said a thousand times over the years - and with little or no ‘spin’ on that statement). The point you don’t seem to be able to understand is that just because he doesn’t concern himself with it does not mean he is not constrained by it – just like most of us are. Also, I would be willing to qualify my use of the word “art” and maybe suggest that ‘creative process’ would be better.

>If it was it could be argued he would play what he wants and not what a promoter wants ( or so you say ).

He works within those parameters as I said. His primary concern is putting on a show that won’t go beyond what is in the budget and I’m sure you can understand that.

>I'd say art and money might might be equal concerns.

In the bigger picture, you’re right, but again, Alice puts on the show he wants to put on but within certain limits – you don’t seem to appreciate that difference and it isn't EVEN a subtle difference(it always seems to be ‘all or nothing’ with certain people here) and what you also don’t seem to understand is that he does not set those limits because that’s what managers and accountants are for. I happen to know you’re quite a mature gentleman in terms of your age, so it would be disappointing if you still look at the music business through rose – tinted lenses because as you should know, that isn’t how the world works, unfortunately.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:43 am

>OK, then it must have ben one of the first shows they were included.

I think I remember that being true in relation to "He's Back (The Man Behind The Mask", which I think was added at the second show (in Cardiff) and I think "Caffeine" was added maybe at the show after that (but I'm not sure).

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:01 am

>I'm not assuming anything

I think the tone of a lot of your posts suggests the opposite. I could be mis - reading them and it may be that is not how you intend them, but most of your posts appear to start from a position which you have ALREADY adopted and which are based only speculation and perception. You don't ask what appear to be honest questions - you tend to adopt a position then challenge others to disprove it.

>For the billionith time I am trying to avoid speculation. Remember that word that seems to get you all mad.

Yes and I explained why.

> Are you saying Alice backstage and Alice only talk business 24hrs a day?

No. Where did I give you that impression? In fact, I am saying the opposite. Read my post.

>He is on this board of his own will and is open to providing insight and answering questions.

Yes but only he can decide which posts he replies to and how much information he gives. Why would you think you are entitled to anything more than that?

> I don't believe it is against his priorities or he wouldn't have time to post.

I DIDN'T say he DIDN'T "have time to post". Did you actually read what I wrote?

>If it is against company policy or he is scared to ask that question then so be it..

Unfortunately, that isn't even the strangest thing you've ever posted.

>If a member of Alice's entourage talks finances here then I would say it is fair game to comment.

He HASN’T though. All he wrote was “To do that show would be incredibly expensive. Maybe worth it, maybe not. Who knows. If we did the show, we might not have sold any more tickets than we normally would have, but we would have spent two or three times the money to do the tour.” If “it is far game to comment” on his statement (and I’m not saying it isn’t), then “it is fair game to comment” on any subsequent comments. The difference is that how much information ANYONE reveals here is THEIR business. Neither you, I nor anyone else is entitled to anything more than that.

>Don't need to know EVERYTHING!!

That is where your questions and comments are leading to, though.

> A simple it wasn't cost effective would suffice.

That is more or less what he wrote! ALL the clues are in his post (read it again) and in several of my old posts, as well. You must surely be able to work it out for yourself instead of appearing to having to have it laid out in detail? You must surely be able to do that.

User avatar
NeilPearson
Humanary Stew
Humanary Stew
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by NeilPearson » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:30 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>OK, then it must have ben one of the first shows they were included.

I think I remember that being true in relation to "He's Back (The Man Behind The Mask", which I think was added at the second show (in Cardiff) and I think "Caffeine" was added maybe at the show after that (but I'm not sure).
Speaking for the UK/Euro shows, House of Fire and He's Back were certainly in the set from the first show in Cardiff. Caffeine was added the following night in Wolverhampton, along with Under My Wheels, and Back Door Man (cover) was dropped. Brutal Planet was dropped after Wolverhampton and the set list then stayed the same from Bournemouth (minus the covers for Basel).

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Not this time

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:49 am

>Caffeine was added the following night in Wolverhampton,

I thought so but wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation. Also, I think the "Setlists" section of this site would have that information.

>Back Door Man (cover) was dropped. Brutal Planet was dropped after Wolverhampton

I am happy to take the credit or blame for that.

Post Reply