Strange ad

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A_MichaelUK
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Re: Strange ad

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:15 pm

>I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by that.

You are making a judgement between advertising alcohol (by a former alcoholic) and that alcoholic acknowledging that others in his family drink.

>I did explain. It's because I think there's a difference between accepeting and tolerating the fact that others drink and being in an ad that implies that you yourself drink the stuff.

Again, you're making a 'value judgement' on that, apart from the fact that the humour in it isn't enough for you, it appears.

>But the implications of the ad is still that the beer makes a change, makes him something different and something more interesting.

I think most people that know anything about Alice will understand the whole thing was a joke. That is what is "strange" - that an Alice Cooper fan (of all people) would be so judgemental.

>But the thing is he's still Alice Cooper, he still looks more or less like that - therefor the ad implies "who he is" rather than "who he was".

I still don't see how you're failing to understand this. IT WAS A JOKE AND NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. ALICE IS NOT REALLY A NECROPHILIAC EITHER.

>If you think I'm looking at this obsessively that's up to you, but the only reason I'm still discussing it is that you keep commenting on my posts

I hope you're not suggesting that I shouldn't be doing that.

>and I simply want to get my opinion across as clearly as possible.

That isn't what I meant and you know it. I wasn't saying you were being obsessive in your responses but in your interpretation of the advert.

>If you want me to stop doing that because it seems "obsessive", fine.

Stop being a martyr. It is really unattractive. That isn't even close to anything that I've written.

>In the end it's just an ad, and I don't really care.

On the contrary - your interpretation of it show that for some reason you do.

> However that doesn't stop me from being a bit suprised over it,

You didn't say that - you said it was "strange". That isn't the same. I agree it is a surprise. What a concept! Alice does something surprising! I am shocked!

>and still think it's a strange decision to have a recovering alcoholic promoting beer.

Again, it's no different to having it on the menu in his restaurant.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:17 pm

>Yeah, this was definitely taken around 86-88.

I believe not. I think somewhere I have a high quality copy of that image and it definitely looks more recent than has been suggested.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by Swinger » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:39 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by that.

You are making a judgement between advertising alcohol (by a former alcoholic) and that alcoholic acknowledging that others in his family drink.

>I did explain. It's because I think there's a difference between accepeting and tolerating the fact that others drink and being in an ad that implies that you yourself drink the stuff.

Again, you're making a 'value judgement' on that, apart from the fact that the humour in it isn't enough for you, it appears.

>But the implications of the ad is still that the beer makes a change, makes him something different and something more interesting.

I think most people that know anything about Alice will understand the whole thing was a joke. That is what is "strange" - that an Alice Cooper fan (of all people) would be so judgemental.
What's judgmental about it? Like I said, I'm not saying he has done anything wrong. Or that anybody's wrong for enjoying the ad. I'm mearly stating why I didn't find the ad funny and since I didn't find it funny - then no, the humour in it isn't enough. Just because you find it funny doesn't mean I have to.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>But the thing is he's still Alice Cooper, he still looks more or less like that - therefor the ad implies "who he is" rather than "who he was".

I still don't see how you're failing to understand this. IT WAS A JOKE AND NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. ALICE IS NOT REALLY A NECROPHILIAC EITHER.
I don't take it seriously I just think it's awkward. Some people don't like "Cold Ethyl" or "I Love The Dead" and don't think those songs are funny, some people find them disgusting and can't listen to them. I like them but doesn't find this funny. It's a matter of opinion. Just because something's a joke doesn't mean everybody's going to think it's funny.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>If you want me to stop doing that because it seems "obsessive", fine.

Stop being a martyr. It is really unattractive. That isn't even close to anything that I've written.
I didn't claim you said that, and if it came across like I was trying to be a martyr that wasn't the intention. I was more or less just asking if you wanted me to stop trying to explain my opinion beacuse in the end we'll have to agree to disagree anyway.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>In the end it's just an ad, and I don't really care.

On the contrary - your interpretation of it show that for some reason you do.
Except that's your interpretation or opionion of it. I know if I care or not and you know if you care or not - the rest is just interpretation.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>However that doesn't stop me from being a bit suprised over it,

You didn't say that - you said it was "strange". That isn't the same. I agree it is a surprise. What a concept! Alice does something surprising! I am shocked!
Yes, I said "strange". So what? Is "strange" always a bad thing? No. Can "strange" mean surprising or confusing? Yes. Is "strange" a personal opinion and not a fact? Yes.
However, I freely admit that it was a poor choice of words of me earlier to use "shocked" when I really meant surprised.(english isn't my first language)
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Re: Strange ad

Post by Swinger » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:46 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Yeah, this was definitely taken around 86-88.

I believe not. I think somewhere I have a high quality copy of that image and it definitely looks more recent than has been suggested.
Here's a bigger picture: http://www.siobhansquire.com/thumbs/0x- ... cooper.jpg
His face looks very late 80s to me at least. But I might be wrong.
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Re: Strange ad

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:25 pm

>What's judgmental about it?
Do you really think that every time a celebrity endorses a product, it means that celebrity actually uses it?

>. Just because you find it funny doesn't mean I have to.

That is true. Maybe it just means you aren’t as ‘in tune’ with his sense of humour as you could be (and besides, that sense of humour is a huge part of almost everything he does).

>I don't take it seriously

Your posts woull suggest otherwise.

>I didn't claim you said that

Well, you kind of did. You used the word “obsessive” in a different way to the way I did.

>Yes, I said "strange". So what? Is "strange" always a bad thing? No.

Again, that’s correct, but again, your posts suggests that, in this case, it is indeed “a bad thing”. My point is that if you do that, you’re missing the humour in it and also, it’s ironic you feel like this about a silly advert when almost Alice’s entire notoriety was based on being “strange”. It isn’t that I’m trying to get you to change your mind or anything, it’s just that to find the advert “strange” seems, well, “strange.”

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Re: Strange ad

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:33 pm

>His face looks very late 80s to me at least. But I might be wrong.

Some of you may be getting confused between this image and one very similar image that was used to promote "Raise Your Fist And Yell" but the two images are entirely different despite that. For one thing, Alice is wearing a cross of the type he has only (I think) started wearing in the last ten years or so, so that's one clue. The advert is from around 2008, I think, so that would fit. Also, knowing how much Alice likes to recycle some of his wardrobe, I've never seen him wear that particular waistcoat and those badges during the period you think this image is from.
Brian Nelson and I used to spend hours going through his many unpublished images and neither that image nor any aspect of Alice's costume in that image, had ever previously emerged.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by Swinger » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:01 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>His face looks very late 80s to me at least. But I might be wrong.

Some of you may be getting confused between this image and one very similar image that was used to promote "Raise Your Fist And Yell" but the two images are entirely different despite that. For one thing, Alice is wearing a cross of the type he has only (I think) started wearing in the last ten years or so, so that's one clue. The advert is from around 2008, I think, so that would fit. Also, knowing how much Alice likes to recycle some of his wardrobe, I've never seen him wear that particular waistcoat and those badges during the period you think this image is from.
Brian Nelson and I used to spend hours going through his many unpublished images and neither that image nor any aspect of Alice's costume in that image, had ever previously emerged.
I agree the clothes and the hair look recent but the face look late 80s, and I think it sorta looks like it was pasted in from another picture (the hair for example has a dark circular line sorta around the face). Once again I might be wrong.
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Re: Strange ad

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:02 pm

Swinger wrote: I agree the clothes and the hair look recent but the face look late 80s, and I think it sorta looks like it was pasted in from another picture (the hair for example has a dark circular line sorta around the face). Once again I might be wrong.
To me it looks like 2000s. The hair is the give away more than anything. Don't forget, this could have been airbrushed to make it more aesthetically pleasing. It is an advertisement after all.
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Re: Strange ad

Post by Loomis » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:18 pm

I find it more disturbing that they used Che Gueverra. I guess some just don't know history.
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Re: Strange ad

Post by Gunner » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:17 am

First of all, GREAT find Swinger, and interesting post.

>However, just because he doesn't drink alcohol doesn't mean that he thinks nobody else should.

I heard Alice say once that alcohol probably should not even be legal!! He cited all the problems, all the prisoners in for drink related crimes etc.

>Also, it looks like the actual picture were taken mid-late '80s, would that be right?

I agree with Andy, it looks more recent than that - I think it's the RYFAY-type look that make it look late 80s!?

>I don't think I've ever heard Alice bash alcohol itself.

I have - see above. His words were along the lines of, "look at all the problems it causes and it's still legal! I just don't get it!". I wish I could remember where I heard this as no doubt Andy will contest my claim.


...actually just found these, it's not exactly what I heard but you get this gist:

And drink is legal - of all things. If you look at how many people die from alcohol compared to how many die from heroin, 65 per cent of alcoholics die from their addiction. Seven per cent of heroin addicts die from heroin. And yet alcohol is totally legal. - Alice Cooper 1991

"You know, looking at statistics, I think drugs should be legal and alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal." -Alice Cooper 2011

Sounds like alcohol bashing to me.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:43 pm

>I heard Alice say once that alcohol probably should not even be legal!! He cited all the problems, all the prisoners in for drink related crimes etc.

Even if he did say that, actions speak louder than words though. If he felt that strongly, he wouldn't have it around him at all and even if he does really think that, then that would be why "ironic" is a better word to describe the advertisement than "strange" is.

>Sounds like alcohol bashing to me.

I think you may have misunderstood the point he was making. If you read between the lines, he actually seems to be saying that if one substance is illegal, then they all should be illegal and if one substance is legal then they all should be legal. I really doubt that he really does think that narcotics should be legal but that alcohol should be illegal.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by Devon » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:42 am

"You know, looking at statistics, I think drugs should be legal and alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal." -Alice Cooper 2011
I'm going to go as far and say that Alice was probably being a a little facetious when he said that.

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Re: Strange ad

Post by darkmenace » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:05 am

It probably means nothing, just an observation of the moment never meant to be analyzed at a later date.

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