Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by killer wolf » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:31 pm

don't think it's a money issue, things like Star Citizen have raised over 8 million and counting, in the current climate. it's just the concept didn't appeal to people. i pimped it on a couple forums and got nothing but scorn and insults. if this concept had been done by an established house, Dark Horse or Dynamite for example, i think it would have run : they would have had an established fan base to talk about it pre-release and probably a fair percentage would have bought it to try, simply because it's from a company they support and because ti would have been advertised as upcoming and they could have pre-ordered on a whim or browsed it on the shelves when it came out etc. Trying to get people interested (and funding it) from an indie standpoint is a lot harder - unless you've got stand-out art to grab attention.
personally for me too, the vids were a little embarrassing and wouldn't have tempted me at all to support the project (and indeed didn't). Alice goofing about is alright but you need to show more of the comics/creators etc. it also seemed to me that - aside from the short KS time, as mentioned - they didn't exactly go out their way to pimp themselves around Newsarama/CBR etc etc.

"It was more at people like the prior poster who by all appearances is a hard core Alice fan, yet didn't support this project because "it didn't grab him". "
well i don't want to promote an argument because it's now a redundant topic, but that comment included me. but you sound like you're looking down your nose at anyone who dares call themselves a fan but doesn't support every single Alice-related project that comes along. i'm a huge fan too (i call myself - compared to others on this site i probably just rate as minor/casual!) but i don't see that that means i have to hoy cash at everything that has Alice's name or face on. i liked the concept of the comic, but i said from the get-go that i didn't think it would happen. if they'd pimped things a bit different, or made the pledge levels a bit better, or any one of a number of other things i might have pledged, but as it was i didn't trip on what i was reading.

believe me, i'm all for some Alice-related comic : i've written a 6-issue one myself but i'm getting nowhere pimping it as everyone wants art, not just the script; which is more annoying due to the face that Alice gave me his blessing to try and get it in print when i asked him at a M&G, so on a selfish level if this project had gone it might have been helpful to me in getting my story done, maybe by them.
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:21 pm

killer wolf wrote: "It was more at people like the prior poster who by all appearances is a hard core Alice fan, yet didn't support this project because "it didn't grab him". "
well i don't want to promote an argument because it's now a redundant topic, but that comment included me. but you sound like you're looking down your nose at anyone who dares call themselves a fan but doesn't support every single Alice-related project that comes along. i'm a huge fan too (i call myself - compared to others on this site i probably just rate as minor/casual!) but i don't see that that means i have to hoy cash at everything that has Alice's name or face on. i liked the concept of the comic, but i said from the get-go that i didn't think it would happen. if they'd pimped things a bit different, or made the pledge levels a bit better, or any one of a number of other things i might have pledged, but as it was i didn't trip on what i was reading.
I'm not looking down my nose at all. I don't throw money at everything Alice related as I can't afford everything... but this was far more unique than anything to come before in the way it was funded. It was an opportunity to support an Alice related venture in a way we the fans have never had the chance to before. The fact that only 385 people supported the project, doesn't exactly make me think we're going to get any more chances to do this sort of thing and that's mainly what I was getting at.
killer wolf wrote: believe me, i'm all for some Alice-related comic : i've written a 6-issue one myself but i'm getting nowhere pimping it as everyone wants art, not just the script; which is more annoying due to the face that Alice gave me his blessing to try and get it in print when i asked him at a M&G, so on a selfish level if this project had gone it might have been helpful to me in getting my story done, maybe by them.
So you're a comic book fan... an Alice Cooper fan... yet didn't support this venture. I'm kinda confused why you didn't support... assuming you could afford to... I thought the pledge levels were actually pretty good. Literally, you could spend as little as $3... support the project... *and* get a collectible Uncle Alice pin. $3 and only 385 supported. That's mind boggling to me. The only thing that would make any sense in explaining this is that it wasn't advertised enough.

If someone that's a comic book fan and an Alice Cooper fan... and wants Alice Cooper comics like you've stated... yet isn't motivated to support this type of project, then I don't know what to say. However, I can't believe it's a positive for future Alice comic book opportunities for this project to fail with so little support.
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by wind_up_toy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:59 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
wind_up_toy wrote:I'm sorry to say that this just didn't grab me at all and is the reason I didn't 'invest'. Fair play to everyone who tried to get this off the ground though and to Alice himself for putting his neck on the line. I hope no-one incurrs any undue financial loss too. Maybe this will still get of the ground in some way!

I'm hoping that this leaves Alice more time to work on new music.
I don't see anywhere where it was stated that work on this project would have impacted Alice's ability to record or do anything else for that matter. After all, this was a Dark Matter project and was largely going to be work done by Dark Matter at least in the early going.

It's disappointing that a true die hard Alice fan wouldn't support a high profile Alice project just because "it didn't grab them". Even just $20 which is next to nothing these days. It does speak a bit about the state of the fan base, in my opinion.

Very poor attempt at trolling.

What are you trying to say exactly? That I should spend my hard earned money on something that doesn't appeal to me? No thanks, I'll keep it in my pocket for something I actually want.

I'm really not a fan of the Kickstarter concept, they're asking you to pay for something with little notice. I prefer the traditional method where something is marketed, you save up, then you buy it a few months later.

Oh and I'm fully aware that Alice was not going to have any major involvement, I'd just think his time is better spent doing what he does best.

I'm sorry to be letting the fan base down so much!
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Jaded » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:04 pm

You don't know what kind of situation every fan is in. 385 people thought it was a good value for money. Maybe others chose to buy a concert ticket. Or a t shirt.. Who knows.. I know times are tough for a lot of people..Everyone seems to be a bit more carefull on what they spend their money on.


I shouldn't count on the 20 in the mail then? Lol
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:06 pm

wind_up_toy wrote:Very poor attempt at trolling.
Hardly.
wind_up_toy wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That I should spend my hard earned money on something that doesn't appeal to me? No thanks, I'll keep it in my pocket for something I actually want.
Nobody is saying you shouldn't. But there was plenty there to offer for Alice fans beyond the actual comic book.
wind_up_toy wrote: I'm really not a fan of the Kickstarter concept, they're asking you to pay for something with little notice. I prefer the traditional method where something is marketed, you save up, then you buy it a few months later.
I actually think it's an interesting concept.
wind_up_toy wrote: Oh and I'm fully aware that Alice was not going to have any major involvement, I'd just think his time is better spent doing what he does best.
I guess he should quit golfing too. Again, I doubt this would haven taken much of Alice's time at all and certainly not kept him from doing what he does best.
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:06 pm

Jaded wrote:I shouldn't count on the 20 in the mail then? Lol
;)
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by wind_up_toy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:34 pm

The statistics simply don't support you, no more bites from me.
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by killer wolf » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:39 am

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
So you're a comic book fan... an Alice Cooper fan... yet didn't support this venture. I'm kinda confused why you didn't support... assuming you could afford to...
i've given most of my reasons in my posts. the main reason is that i could see from the lack of interest in the pledge rates that it was never going to happen. so maybe that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy, i dunno. but the fact the project failed by a huge amount and not a couple thousand dollars makes me think otherwise.
RemarkablyInsincere wrote: I thought the pledge levels were actually pretty good. Literally, you could spend as little as $3...
yeah. $3 pledges on a $200k project. that would need about 67000 people. unless you're "The Walking Dead", forget about it. Your opinion that the levels were pretty good is at odds w/ virtually everyone else, it appears. An Uncle Alice pin just doesn't trip my alarms, frankly.

RemarkablyInsincere wrote: If someone that's a comic book fan and an Alice Cooper fan... and wants Alice Cooper comics like you've stated... yet isn't motivated to support this type of project, then I don't know what to say. However, I can't believe it's a positive for future Alice comic book opportunities for this project to fail with so little support.
Via Kickstarter, no. i do believe it could work if done by a studio, as i've said before, especially if it was an album tie-in like Last Temptation. if, eg, he got around to doing Night Shift, they could do an issue focussing on each song - one could come w/ the album (ltd edn of?), the rest would be from the comic shop.

but as stated, this is a dead topic now, so no more posts from me.
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Si » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:50 am

killer wolf wrote:the main reason is that i could see from the lack of interest in the pledge rates that it was never going to happen. so maybe that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy,
I think that's a very good observation. I couldn`t see it raising the money either to be honest. Too far to go in too little time.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by GNDM » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:35 pm

Curious about something.....

I wonder how many casual Alice Cooper fans saw this 'campaign' and were put off by the fact that it appears to be Alice asking for $200,000? Yes, I am sure that several problems also caused the projects' failure....but wealthy people asking for handouts is usually a turn off. (Even if that may be not true in this case)

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:56 pm

>it appears to be Alice asking for $200,000?

HE WAS NOT.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Si » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:10 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>it appears to be Alice asking for $200,000?

HE WAS NOT.
No he wasn't, but going by some of the comments on the kickstarter comments page and elsewhere that was the perception to many (I think that's what GNDM meant). It had to be explained that it wasn't Alice's idea. That isn't Alice's fault but could that uninformed perception have hurt the campaign?

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:29 am

>No he wasn't, but going by some of the comments on the kickstarter comments page and elsewhere that was the perception to many (I think that's what GNDM meant).

I don’t see how it can be perceived that way . That would be like saying Alice also had to raise the money so that he could appear in "Monster Dog" or on "The Muppet Show" or any of the other projects he has ever been involved in. It isn’t a reasonable assumption.

>It had to be explained that it wasn't Alice's idea.

So there should be even less reason for that assumption to exist. Performers rarely invest their own money in a project unless they want to have ownership of it. If they did, they wouldn’t be performers but producers instead.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Si » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>No he wasn't, but going by some of the comments on the kickstarter comments page and elsewhere that was the perception to many (I think that's what GNDM meant).

I don’t see how it can be perceived that way.
Because most people don't even think about it or care to look deeper. You are giving the general public waaay to much credit if you think they would give it a second thought. They see "Alice Cooper seeks money" and that's as far as it goes in their head. You see examples of it all the time. Most wouldn`t even get as far as the Kickstarter page before copming to an (incorrect) conculsion. They see the headline, and think Alice has enough money to do this and move on. They way the press report it all is the main problem.
We are taking about "floating voters" here not the real diehards who would read everything and are more likely to actually donate, but even with the casual fans it's is the case.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>It had to be explained that it wasn't Alice's idea.

So there should be even less reason for that assumption to exist. Performers rarely invest their own money in a project unless they want to have ownership of it. If they did, they wouldn’t be performers but producers instead.
You and I know that, and many others here, but the general public (casual fans) just believe the headline. They see Alice (a very rich guy) trying to raise what to him they think is a small amount of money to finance his project. They just take it and go no further. They don't think about it in terms of "ownership" or copyrights etc or what such a project actually is. All they see is "Alice Cooper raising money". Their thought processes don't go any further then that. Sad but true. You know it's true as you see it every day including here (where you pick people up on it all the time). You are giving the public too much credit. You are assuming they actually think about such stuff for more then five seconds before making a decision (or posting haha).

Exact same thing happened with the cruise. The headlines stated it was an 'Alice Cooper Cruise' but it wasn't. And when it was canceled it was "Alice Cooper cruise canceled" which also wasn't correct. This looks like Alice himself didn't have enough fans and couldn't sell enough tickets, which is also probably not true, but the whole percepction was based on lazy journalism, lazy people, and inaccuracies.

Will it make any real difference to Alice in the long run? Probably not this late in the game. His legendary status is pretty much assured now. But lots of little things like this can start to build up to indirectly create a problem with public perception.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Diane D. » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:33 am

Wax went wrong? Everybody has lost their pledge? :rotfl:
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Jaded » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:15 pm

Diane, what are you on about? And if that was true, why would you think that was funny??

Andy, the above post by Diane proves Si's point in my opinion..
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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:36 pm

>Because most people don't even think about it or care to look deeper. You are giving the general public waaay to much credit if you think they would give it a second thought. They see "Alice Cooper seeks money" and that's as far as it goes in their head.

If that was the case, wealthy celebrities wouldn’t be able to raise money for charity. The principle is the same.

> We are taking about "floating voters" here not the real diehards who would read everything and are more likely to actually donate, but even with the casual fans it's is the case.

They obviously weren’t just going after Alice’s “casual fans” though. They were obviously people who were into comics, fantasy or animation would be interested in it as well, but they were not. How do we know it was only supporters of Alice that pledged money?

> This looks like Alice himself didn't have enough fans and couldn't sell enough tickets, which is also probably not true, but the whole percepction was based on lazy journalism, lazy people, and inaccuracies.

I think killer wolf was closer to the truth when he wrote “don't think it's a money issue, things like Star Citizen have raised over 8 million and counting, in the current climate. it's just the concept didn't appeal to people.” The reality is that not enough people were interested in the project. If people were interested, they would have invested because it wouldn’t matter whether Alice was trying to raise funds or not.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:38 pm

>Andy, the above post by Diane proves Si's point in my opinion..

I don't know. It might depend on what you think her perception is. Her post certainly was unnecessary.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by Si » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:23 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Because most people don't even think about it or care to look deeper. You are giving the general public waaay to much credit if you think they would give it a second thought. They see "Alice Cooper seeks money" and that's as far as it goes in their head.

If that was the case, wealthy celebrities wouldn’t be able to raise money for charity. The principle is the same.
The word "charity" changes it. "charity" makes people feel good about themselves. It's a "good cause". Are you suggesting Dark Matter are a charity case? They aren`t. They are a business looking for funding (nothing wrong with that) AND seeing if there is enough interest in a project to go ahead with it.
A_MichaelUK wrote:> We are taking about "floating voters" here not the real diehards who would
>read everything and are more likely to actually donate, but even with the
>casual fans it's is the case.

They obviously weren’t just going after Alice’s “casual fans” though. They were obviously people who were into comics, fantasy or animation would be interested in it as well, but they were not. How do we know it was only supporters of Alice that pledged money?
Obviously we don't know who was pledging. But I would guess the majority were Alice fans. Someone earlier said there wasn't much coverage in the comics press (I don't know). Plus the comics fans would probably be even quicker to ask why Alice didn't lay out his own money as they would possibly have little to no knowledge of Alice outside what they have read in the mainstream press and expect it to be small change to a "rock star".

Also I don`t think any of the other names involved in the project are what you could call big names in the comics biz (again could be wrong, I just haven`t heard of them that I recall). So they were primarily using Alice to pull in the funds, not the writers/artists and thus appealing mainly to the Alice audience.
A_MichaelUK wrote:> This looks like Alice himself didn't have enough fans and couldn't sell
>enough tickets, which is also probably not true, but the whole percepction
>was based on lazy journalism, lazy people, and inaccuracies.

I think killer wolf was closer to the truth when he wrote “don't think it's a money issue, things like Star Citizen have raised over 8 million and counting, in the current climate. it's just the concept didn't appeal to people.” The reality is that not enough people were interested in the project. If people were interested, they would have invested because it wouldn’t matter whether Alice was trying to raise funds or not.
That is also a good point of course, but not the specific point I originally posted in reply to which was how it could (incorrectly) be perceived as Alice asking for the money for the project.

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Re: Uncle Alice Presents---New Comic Book and TV Series???

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:54 pm

>The word "charity" changes it. "charity" makes people feel good about themselves. It's a "good cause".

If more people had the perception you mentioned though, many more people would probably be wondering why they're being asked to make a donation by someone far wealthier than they are.

> Are you suggesting Dark Matter are a charity case? They aren`t.

Of course not! I am saying that the reason this project failed is because it wasn't interesting enough. If it was, more people would have pledged money irrespective of any perception because they wanted to see the project reach fruition.

>So they were primarily using Alice to pull in the funds, not the writers/artists and thus appealing mainly to the Alice audience.

Of course they were but again, if people had been interested in it, they would have pledged money and by the way all this stuff about the wealthy using their own money to fund projects like this is kind of irrelevant. They can do what they like with their own money and just because Alice possibly hasn't sunk any of his own resources into it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't think it had any artistic value. What is clear though is that not enough people outside of that thought the same way. Again, perception has very little to do with that.

>That is also a good point of course, but not the specific point I originally posted in reply to which was how it could (incorrectly) be perceived as Alice asking for the money for the project.

Well, it is the same because I see that as the reason why the amount pledged has been so low, not because of any perception about Alice being the one who should hsve to fund this. Again, if people had thought this project was the most exciting Alice Cooper project ever, then you can be sure more money would have been pledged, irrespective of whether Alice can afford to fund it himself, or not.

Another thing that some people don't seem to have picked up on is that with there being so many more media outlets than before, there are going to be more and more projects that are going to raise funds using this method. Some of those projects will almost certainly have wealthy celebrities attached to them and some of those projects will almost certainly fail to raise enough money.

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