Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 am

> would be it enhances his image and creates an entertaining story.

Exactly. That is all he wants out of his stories - that they entertain.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:41 am

Wow, I can't believe how it as to be either the absolute truth or some hugely fabricated lie meant to decieve a bunch of innocent fans.

Exactly. What an evil criminal he is.

> Perhaps this story, like many of Alice's, developed somewhat organically.

That is exactly how many of them happen.

>I could go on forever with scenarios in which this story could develop without having to ascribe complete fabrication, with nefarious designs, on Alice's part.

Exactly but don't tell Toronto Bob or killer wolf that! They want and deserve the truth!
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:44 am

>Alice Stated this in the(Audio Verison) of Golf Monster That Taupin was included on this as well.

Yes, he was there at that particular meeting and there is a photograph of that. I think it might be in the book that was included in "The "Life And Crimes Of Alice Cooper" box - set.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Gunner » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:37 am

I think that the level of acceptance of these 'stories' should depend on how much the truth is 'bent'. If it is a on out-and-out lie, and that if, for example, Sinatra didn't sing Cooper's song then that is just out of order as it is plain wrong! IF however, it is embellished a little to make us giggle (like the chicken incident or Elvis incident etc etc) then that's acceptable.

That's how I seee it.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:17 pm

>I think that the level of acceptance of these 'stories' should depend on how much the truth is 'bent'.

Again, you're missing the point. It isn't that he wants you to 'accept' the tales. I don't think he cares. In fact, I'm almost certain he does not. He just wants you to be entertained by them and to entertain himself as well. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.

>If it is a on out-and-out lie, and that if, for example, Sinatra didn't sing Cooper's song then that is just out of order as it is plain wrong!

Who cares?

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Gunner » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:05 pm

>I think that the level of acceptance of these 'stories' should depend on how much the truth is 'bent'.

Again, you're missing the point. It isn't that he wants you to 'accept' the tales. I don't think he cares. In fact, I'm almost certain he does not. He just wants you to be entertained by them and to entertain himself as well. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.
AGAIN, it is YOU and only you that continues to miss points on this forum
Andy:

I don't care what he wants me to accept; I am telling people here what I think is acceptable to myself and others here. Barefaced lies that confuse, give people wrong information and untruths are unsatisfactory to people with certain values.

>If it is a on out-and-out lie, and that if, for example, Sinatra didn't sing Cooper's song then that is just out of order as it is plain wrong!

Who cares?

Not you it seems but many others. I haven't got their names - do you want them??

GNDM

Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:58 pm

Not you it seems but many others. I haven't got their names - do you want them??

Are they the 'usual suspects'?

:grin:

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:06 pm

Gunner wrote:
>I think that the level of acceptance of these 'stories' should depend on how much the truth is 'bent'.

Again, you're missing the point. It isn't that he wants you to 'accept' the tales. I don't think he cares. In fact, I'm almost certain he does not. He just wants you to be entertained by them and to entertain himself as well. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.
AGAIN, it is YOU and only you that continues to miss points on this forum
Andy:

I don't care what he wants me to accept; I am telling people here what I think is acceptable to myself and others here. Barefaced lies that confuse, give people wrong information and untruths are unsatisfactory to people with certain values.

>If it is a on out-and-out lie, and that if, for example, Sinatra didn't sing Cooper's song then that is just out of order as it is plain wrong!

Who cares?

Not you it seems but many others. I haven't got their names - do you want them??
I think you're missing the point Gunner, this is amuk's world and he will tell you what is acceptable observations and criticisms of all things Alice.

Hey Alice - tell us the one about hangin' out with Pink Floyd again. Maybe they heard Levity Ball, travelled back in time a couple of years and wrote Astronomy Domine. Oh please Uncle Alice tell us another one!! Keith Moon, Groucho, Jimi, Janis, Jim, Elvis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_oUjMxR0YU

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:13 pm

>I don't care what he wants me to accept;

THEN DON'T LISTEN TO OR READ ANY INTERVIEWS HE GIVES!

> Barefaced lies that confuse, give people wrong information and untruths are unsatisfactory to people with certain values.

In that case, you have completely misunderstood Alice's persona then.

>Not you it seems but many others. I haven't got their names - do you want them??

Yes.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:19 pm

> this is amuk's world and he will tell you what is acceptable observations and criticisms of all things Alice.

No, but I will "tell" you that you misunderstand what he is doing and why he is doing it. I have some questions that I'd like you to answer. It would be great if you can answer them directly. Only direct answers will do. If you choose not to answer, that's fine. You don't even have to say why you choose not to. Just tell me whether you will or will not. All I ask is that you answer the questions or don't respond to this request all. Let me know and I'll post the questions.

>Hey Alice - tell us the one about hangin' out with Pink Floyd again. Maybe they heard Levity Ball, travelled back in time a couple of years and wrote Astronomy Domine.

Why are you putting words into his mouth? To the best of my knowledge, he's never mentioned that song. In fact, it was Dennis Dunaway who was worried that the two songs were similar and Michael Bruce told him not to worry about it!

> Oh please Uncle Alice tell us another one!! Keith Moon, Groucho, Jimi, Janis, Jim, Elvis

As I said before, because some of the stories are probably not true, you think NONE of them can be. I suspect there is an explanation for why you think that way, but "I'm not a mental health expert" either.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:22 pm

Toronto Bob wrote:
Gunner wrote:
>I think that the level of acceptance of these 'stories' should depend on how much the truth is 'bent'.

Again, you're missing the point. It isn't that he wants you to 'accept' the tales. I don't think he cares. In fact, I'm almost certain he does not. He just wants you to be entertained by them and to entertain himself as well. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.
AGAIN, it is YOU and only you that continues to miss points on this forum
Andy:

I don't care what he wants me to accept; I am telling people here what I think is acceptable to myself and others here. Barefaced lies that confuse, give people wrong information and untruths are unsatisfactory to people with certain values.

>If it is a on out-and-out lie, and that if, for example, Sinatra didn't sing Cooper's song then that is just out of order as it is plain wrong!

Who cares?

Not you it seems but many others. I haven't got their names - do you want them??
I think you're missing the point Gunner, this is amuk's world and he will tell you what is acceptable observations and criticisms of all things Alice.

Hey Alice - tell us the one about hangin' out with Pink Floyd again. Maybe they heard Levity Ball, travelled back in time a couple of years and wrote Astronomy Domine. Oh please Uncle Alice tell us another one!! Keith Moon, Groucho, Jimi, Janis, Jim, Elvis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_oUjMxR0YU
Alice has worked with great celebrities. Recently Johnny Depp, Vincent Price and Dali, before. That is true and that is fascinating to me. The others, I don't know.
[

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:22 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:> this is amuk's world and he will tell you what is acceptable observations and criticisms of all things Alice.

No, but I will "tell" you that you misunderstand what he is doing and why he is doing it. I have some questions that I'd like you to answer. It would be great if you can answer them directly. Only direct answers will do. If you choose not to answer, that's fine. You don't even have to say why you choose not to. Just tell me whether you will or will not. All I ask is that you answer the questions or don't respond to this request all. Let me know and I'll post the questions.



> Oh please Uncle Alice tell us another one!! Keith Moon, Groucho, Jimi, Janis, Jim, Elvis

As I said before, because some of the stories are probably not true, you think NONE of them can be.
I'll address the last part first - I know full well that some stories can be basically true or at least have elements of truth to them, but that's where that thing called credibility comes into play. If a person doesn't want to be dismissed as a bullshiter, they have to tell the truth all the time and only occassionally are we permitted a nose stretcher. Lie consistently and risk not being taken seriously.

As far as your questions go - I'll answer anything directly except any personal information, but I doubt that's what you had in mind anyway.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Seriously » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:44 pm

Can someone explain to me in plain English or Welsh, if this site is an Alice Cooper fan site that shows appreciation of his music or works.

Just getting a bit more confused lately! I would use expletives, but have been warned before about that!

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:58 pm

>credibility comes into play.

HE IS A ROCK STAR - NOT A POLITICIAN OR SOMEONE WHO IS ON TRIAL. What does "credibility" have to do with anything. HOW CAN YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ALICE'S CAREER ALL THIS TIME AND STILL NOT GET THE JOKE?!

>If a person doesn't want to be dismissed as a bullshiter,

HE DOESN'T CARE! YOUR OPINION ON THIS IS IRRELEVANT AS FAR AS HE IS CONCERNED.

>they have to tell the truth all the time

WHO SAYS? What makes you so important that you have to have "the truth"? Who made that rule? What gave you such control over what he should or shouldn't say? DO YOU STILL NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THESE STORIES THAT UPSET YOU SO MUCH ARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENTERTAINMENT? I hope you're not going to tell us that all this time, you really thought Alice was a necrophiliac or something?

>and only occassionally are we permitted a nose stretcher.

Who made that rule?

> Lie consistently and risk not being taken seriously.

Who says he wants you take everything he says "seriously"? You still haven't explained why you see in things as 'black or white' and nothing else.

> I'll answer anything directly

Good. Now go back and read what Seriously wrote in his (or her) post. Is he (or she) a "liar"? Yes or no? Do you believe Dennis Dunaway's story about the ouija board? If not, is he a "liar"? Do you believe that Alice shot Neal in the foot? If not, are both Neal and Alice are lying? Do you believe that Alice gave Paul McCartney a bed that used to belong to Groucho Marx, as a gift? If not, are they both lying? What about the "Muscle Of Love" album? The impression given in the credits of that album is that Glen Buxton was heavily involved with the making of it, but the consensus is that he was not. Does this mean that the rest of the band and Warner Brothers were lying? Do you believe that the band and Jimi Hendrix were acquaintances? If not, are they lying? Do you believe that Glen once lent Jim Morrison a sweater that Morrison wore on an album cover? If not, was Glen lying? I can think of many more examples but I think even you get the idea behind these. I look forward to your answers and remember: "Only direct answers will do". That means answering with a 'yes' or a 'no'.

GNDM

Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:08 pm

Seriously wrote:Can someone explain to me in plain English or Welsh, if this site is an Alice Cooper fan site that shows appreciation of his music or works.

Just getting a bit more confused lately! I would use expletives, but have been warned before about that!
Try the web page or facebook page of Alice's Minions. No foul word or negative question about Alice is allowed. Of course you must genuflect towards Phoenix twice a day.

Alice has flaws....after all he is only human. Wouldn't it be easier to skip the threads that you feel don't worship him? There always seems like there are plenty of laudatory threads on this site.






:grin:

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by darkmenace » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:14 pm

"Alice has flaws....after all he is only human."

This fact doesn't bother me at all (depending of course on the nature of the flaws; some flaws are less forgivable than others). There's a famous quote along the lines of "great men have great flaws." I believe having a larger than life personality is what makes some people creative, charismatic and noteworthy.

Back to this topic, now that I know more about it I will no longer tell others that Sinatra covered Cooper because I no longer believe it's true and therefore it's not worth repeating.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by ThePainAddict » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 am

"I will no longer tell others that Sinatra covered Cooper because I no longer believe it's true and therefore it's not worth repeating."
Good idea, also don't tell anybody the people Alice paid tribute to were not members of the Hollywood Vampires, either. They were either dead or Alice primarily partied with them in New York.
However, even thought I think this is pretty common knowledge, I didn't hear a big outcry about Alice lying.
Did he ever drink with them...most certainly.
Did he have a group of friends that he drinked with that called themselves the Hollywood Vampires...yeap.
Does it make a much more compelling and concise narrative to collate the events...absolutely.
Is this a lie?

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:43 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>credibility comes into play.

HE IS A ROCK STAR - NOT A POLITICIAN OR SOMEONE WHO IS ON TRIAL. What does "credibility" have to do with anything. HOW CAN YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ALICE'S CAREER ALL THIS TIME AND STILL NOT GET THE JOKE?!

>If a person doesn't want to be dismissed as a bullshiter,

HE DOESN'T CARE! YOUR OPINION ON THIS IS IRRELEVANT AS FAR AS HE IS CONCERNED.

>they have to tell the truth all the time

WHO SAYS? What makes you so important that you have to have "the truth"? Who made that rule? What gave you such control over what he should or shouldn't say? DO YOU STILL NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THESE STORIES THAT UPSET YOU SO MUCH ARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENTERTAINMENT? I hope you're not going to tell us that all this time, you really thought Alice was a necrophiliac or something?

>and only occassionally are we permitted a nose stretcher.

Who made that rule?

> Lie consistently and risk not being taken seriously.

Who says he wants you take everything he says "seriously"? You still haven't explained why you see in things as 'black or white' and nothing else.

> I'll answer anything directly

Good. Now go back and read what Seriously wrote in his (or her) post. Is he (or she) a "liar"? Yes or no? Do you believe Dennis Dunaway's story about the ouija board? If not, is he a "liar"? Do you believe that Alice shot Neal in the foot? If not, are both Neal and Alice are lying? Do you believe that Alice gave Paul McCartney a bed that used to belong to Groucho Marx, as a gift? If not, are they both lying? What about the "Muscle Of Love" album? The impression given in the credits of that album is that Glen Buxton was heavily involved with the making of it, but the consensus is that he was not. Does this mean that the rest of the band and Warner Brothers were lying? Do you believe that the band and Jimi Hendrix were acquaintances? If not, are they lying? Do you believe that Glen once lent Jim Morrison a sweater that Morrison wore on an album cover? If not, was Glen lying? I can think of many more examples but I think even you get the idea behind these. I look forward to your answers and remember: "Only direct answers will do". That means answering with a 'yes' or a 'no'.

Andy, Andy... We ALL know about the sense of humour of Alice, his idea of entertainment and as for me, I totally got the joke.
[

GNDM

Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:48 am

ThePainAddict wrote:"I will no longer tell others that Sinatra covered Cooper because I no longer believe it's true and therefore it's not worth repeating."
Good idea, also don't tell anybody the people Alice paid tribute to were not members of the Hollywood Vampires, either. They were either dead or Alice primarily partied with them in New York.
However, even thought I think this is pretty common knowledge, I didn't hear a big outcry about Alice lying.
Did he ever drink with them...most certainly.
Did he have a group of friends that he drinked with that called themselves the Hollywood Vampires...yeap.
Does it make a much more compelling and concise narrative to collate the events...absolutely.
Is this a lie?
Sorry....but I don't get the point you are trying to make. No offense - maybe I am just missing something.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:58 am

A_MichaelUK wrote:>credibility comes into play.

HE IS A ROCK STAR - NOT A POLITICIAN OR SOMEONE WHO IS ON TRIAL. What does "credibility" have to do with anything. HOW CAN YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ALICE'S CAREER ALL THIS TIME AND STILL NOT GET THE JOKE?!

>If a person doesn't want to be dismissed as a bullshiter,

HE DOESN'T CARE! YOUR OPINION ON THIS IS IRRELEVANT AS FAR AS HE IS CONCERNED.

>they have to tell the truth all the time

WHO SAYS? What makes you so important that you have to have "the truth"? Who made that rule? What gave you such control over what he should or shouldn't say? DO YOU STILL NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THESE STORIES THAT UPSET YOU SO MUCH ARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENTERTAINMENT? I hope you're not going to tell us that all this time, you really thought Alice was a necrophiliac or something?

>and only occassionally are we permitted a nose stretcher.

Who made that rule?

> Lie consistently and risk not being taken seriously.

Who says he wants you take everything he says "seriously"? You still haven't explained why you see in things as 'black or white' and nothing else.

> I'll answer anything directly

Good. Now go back and read what Seriously wrote in his (or her) post. Is he (or she) a "liar"? Yes or no? Do you believe Dennis Dunaway's story about the ouija board? If not, is he a "liar"? Do you believe that Alice shot Neal in the foot? If not, are both Neal and Alice are lying? Do you believe that Alice gave Paul McCartney a bed that used to belong to Groucho Marx, as a gift? If not, are they both lying? What about the "Muscle Of Love" album? The impression given in the credits of that album is that Glen Buxton was heavily involved with the making of it, but the consensus is that he was not. Does this mean that the rest of the band and Warner Brothers were lying? Do you believe that the band and Jimi Hendrix were acquaintances? If not, are they lying? Do you believe that Glen once lent Jim Morrison a sweater that Morrison wore on an album cover? If not, was Glen lying? I can think of many more examples but I think even you get the idea behind these. I look forward to your answers and remember: "Only direct answers will do". That means answering with a 'yes' or a 'no'.
That laundry list of trivial nonsense is something I have very little interest in so let's say um....

1 - yes
2 - no
3 - yes
4 - no
5 - yes
6 - no
7 - yes
I think you can detect a pattern there, so fill in the rest yourself

and what's with all the shouting? Did I hurt your fe-fe's? It's simple, in real life if someone tells me the truth half the time or distorts the truth all the time, I tend not to engage with that person. They can talk, I'll politely nod or half smile until they talk themselves out or I excuse myself. No big deal. With Alice I just disregard anything that he says - doesn't upset me in the least.

What does disappoint me however is inability to release a good album or put together a real treasure trove of true rarities, that is the real bummer.

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