Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:04 pm

>Andy, Andy... We ALL know about the sense of humour of Alice, his idea of entertainment

I wish that was true but Toronto Bob doesn't appear to.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:17 pm

>That laundry list of trivial nonsense is something I have very little interest in so let's say um....

Only 'yes' or 'no' are allowed.

>1 - yes

So you're saying Seriously is a "liar". Interesting. At least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why he said what he said.

>2 - no
>3 - yes

So you're saying Dennis is a "liar" as well. Again, at least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why he said what he said.

>4 - no
5 - yes

So you're saying both Neal and Alice are liars. Again, at least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why they said what they said.

>6 - no
7 - yes

So you're saying that both Alice and Paul McCartney are liars.

>I think you can detect a pattern there, so fill in the rest yourself

Yes. I did. We can also "detect a pattern" which is that having now claimed that Neal and Dennis are also fabricating stories, I am wondering if you will now claim they are also "compulsive" liars, just as you accused Alice of being.

>and what's with all the shouting? Did I hurt your fe-fe's?

No. I tend to do that when people are being stupid.

> It's simple, in real life if someone tells me the truth half the time or distorts the truth all the time, I tend not to engage

Are you serious? This is NOT "real life". This someone else talking about THEIR "life" - it doesn't affect YOUR "life".

>With Alice I just disregard anything that he says - doesn't upset me in the least.

Well it "upset" you enough to post about it. In the interest of fairness though, I think you should state here that you also think Seriously, Neal, Dennis, Paul McCartney, Glen and Warner Brothers are liars, just as you accused Alice of being.

>What does disappoint me however is inability to release a good album or put together a real treasure trove of true rarities, that is the real bummer.

How does that have anything to do with this thread?

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Nick » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:44 pm

We all know Alice embellishes or "dresses up" a lot of his anecdotes. I personally don't see why it would bother anyone. Alice is a pure showman and entertainer, if there was a vindictive or malicious edge to his stories, then that's one thing. But there's not. Most "legendary" tales that have been spread or repeated by various entertainers over the years are embellished to some extent. Interesting topic, but I think if someone really takes issue with this, then then they're looking at it a little too hard.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:16 pm

>but I think if someone really takes issue with this, then then they're looking at it a little too hard.

Also, in the wrong way.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Billie1966 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:54 pm

>I had heard there was a demo somewhere of Johnny Cash and Alice doing a Marilyn Manson song called "Personal Jesus". Do you know of this?

I am aware of the story.

Truly amazing!! My two favorite singers in the whole world.. I hope this one day surfaces.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by tuneylune » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm

Humphrey Bogart said it best: "The only thing you owe the public is a good performance."
Love Alice, but he can take a pinch of BS and spread it over a whole loaf. Whether Sinatra did the song or not, he seems pretty relaxed in the picture with Alice and Bernie Taupin in THE LIFE AND CRIMES OF ALICE COOPER (and from what I've read, Sinatra HATED rock-his ex valet mentioned how Frank kicked his car radio in because all he could get was "Light My Fire" by The Doors). Maybe Sinatra did a shortened version or the full song-who knows? Alice has mentioned how the chicken was ripped to shreds and in one CHICAGO TRIBUNE article in 1977, said someone took it home as a pet.
This reminds me also of Gene and Paul from KISS saying in the 90's how the solo albums were made to keep Ace and Peter happy and not leave the band when I remember reading in CIRCUS #161 in July 1977 how they were planning to record solo LPs and Ace mentioning how he "..always wanted to play the blues."
As pointed out, it's show biz and while I prefer the truth myself, hype and yarn spinning are part of the scene and at the end of the day, what does it really matter? If my favorite continues to put out quality albums/shows, then I'm happy with THAT.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by GNDM » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:11 pm

Is Alice a liar????

Well, let's do the basic test concerning lies.

Has anyone ever seen, or heard about, Alice's pants being on fire???

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by recoop » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:27 pm

Hi Tuneylune..couldn't Gene and Paul's 90s comments-"to keep Ace and Peter happy" and Ace "always wanted to play the blues" both be true. The difficulty is that Alice is gr8 at telling a tale (true or false) with a poker face.If he winked after each enlarged tale the humour/entertainment would be lost. Alice is an entertainer and in my view part comedian-I reckon some if his tales are enlarged but he is AC/playing the part of AC. I know it can get confusing if one thinks one ever sees the true person underneath the act on tv. I don't think he is a compulsive liar because he has control and great skill/can change gear and elements of stories for (drum roll needed) Entertainment. I am sure he knows changing a tale keeps people talking about Alice Cooper. Rock stars are story tellers/mythmakers and satisfy our vicarious needs. Alice is rock star meets Hans Christian Andersen. Maybe if Danny Kaye was still alive he could have played Alice.. :)
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Robbie » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:09 pm

The whole point of this extended debate rests on the word context used further up the thread. To me this is the critical factor.
To give an example I wrote and delivered a eulogy at my close friend's funeral. Along with grief there is a need for warmth and humour during a funeral so I recounted a number of anecdotes that were embellished for two reasons. First, to make the stories more humorous and secondly because I was delivering the eoulogy to a wider audience and I had no wish to get ground down in accurate detail which would be of no interest. The eulogy worked on every level it was intended to. If my mate did not exactly buy me my first pint as I related does that make me a liar? Did he really fail to impress a sophisticated lady at a dinner table because he had a string of cheese hanging from his chin as I stated does that make me a liar? Both stories (and others) had elements of truth in them and within that contexthelped to give a flavour of the man I was describing (or the "essence" of him if you prefer Gunner). Those detractors and objectors to Alice's stories on this thread have yet to convince me as to why, (in an interview meant for a wider general audience), does Alice have to be different to any other raconteur?

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:11 pm

Nick wrote:We all know Alice embellishes or "dresses up" a lot of his anecdotes. I personally don't see why it would bother anyone. Alice is a pure showman and entertainer, if there was a vindictive or malicious edge to his stories, then that's one thing. But there's not. Most "legendary" tales that have been spread or repeated by various entertainers over the years are embellished to some extent. Interesting topic, but I think if someone really takes issue with this, then then they're looking at it a little too hard.

We all know that Alice is a great showman and entertainer, BUT, could he be himself once, just once, is that too much to ask? Just a question, in English.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by recoop » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:40 pm

I think Diane D. that if you are looking for the real person underneath the persona-then in my view the nearest we can get to it is watching an interview on his solid rock foundation work and his wish to keep kids away from trouble/ drugs/alcohol and get into music. But that's not very rock n roll. Perhaps Alice uses his r'n'r lifestyle and all the myths that go with it to fund (money and PR) what he sees as good work.As a side issue, I read a report years ago (MAY NOT BE CORRECT) that a religious advisor to Alice had suggested that the best way he could help the youth of today was to keep his Alice persona and this would enable him to achieve PR for his good works etc. The real person does charitable work,doesn't drink/raise hell and plays golf.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 pm

>BUT, could he be himself once, just once, is that too much to ask?

I don't think we, as his audience, have the right to request that he does anything in particular. He doesn't owe us anything except to do his best when writing, recording and performing.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Diane D. » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:02 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>BUT, could he be himself once, just once, is that too much to ask?

I don't think we, as his audience, have the right to request that he does anything in particular. He doesn't owe us anything except to do his best when writing, recording and performing.
You're right. Silly question.
Last edited by Diane D. on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Seriously » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:10 pm

[quote="A_MichaelUK"]>

"I think you should state here that you also think Seriously, Neal, Dennis, Paul McCartney, Glen and Warner Brothers are liars, just as you accused Alice of being."

Fame at last & such good company, can't wait to tell the kids this one!

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by James1981 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:08 pm

GNDM wrote:Is Alice a liar????

Well, let's do the basic test concerning lies.

Has anyone ever seen, or heard about, Alice's pants being on fire???
Ha, nice one GNDM :) Not sure about his pants but I have heard that he is a bit partial to building houses of fire. I have been reading this thread with great interest however I fee the time has come for me to clear things up once and for all. Just tonight I used the same ouija board that Alice used to get his name to contact Mr Sinatra. He says he did indeed cover you and me.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:42 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>That laundry list of trivial nonsense is something I have very little interest in so let's say um....

Only 'yes' or 'no' are allowed.

>1 - yes

So you're saying Seriously is a "liar". Interesting. At least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why he said what he said.

>2 - no
>3 - yes

So you're saying Dennis is a "liar" as well. Again, at least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why he said what he said.

>4 - no
5 - yes

So you're saying both Neal and Alice are liars. Again, at least we're all now clear about that and it shows you don't understand why they said what they said.

>6 - no
7 - yes

So you're saying that both Alice and Paul McCartney are liars.

>I think you can detect a pattern there, so fill in the rest yourself

Yes. I did. We can also "detect a pattern" which is that having now claimed that Neal and Dennis are also fabricating stories, I am wondering if you will now claim they are also "compulsive" liars, just as you accused Alice of being.
Dear Jeebus in heaven, it meant I had no interest in answering those questions. Are you thick?

I actually kinda agree with you on one point you made
I don't think we, as his audience, have the right to request that he does anything in particular. He doesn't owe us anything except to do his best when writing, recording and performing
I would word it differently but essentially this is true - and that has been my bone of contention for years. Of course it is my opinion and I do have the right to that - regardless of how amuk wants to stamp out all dissention.

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Lucius Morthem » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:29 am

Billie1966 wrote:>I had heard there was a demo somewhere of Johnny Cash and Alice doing a Marilyn Manson song called "Personal Jesus". Do you know of this?

I am aware of the story.

Truly amazing!! My two favorite singers in the whole world.. I hope this one day surfaces.

That is weird because that songs is not a Marilyn Manson song...is Depeche mode'ssong for what I Know, But if this is true and they have a cover...That would be amazing to hear, But truly I Doubt About it

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Lucius Morthem » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:30 am

ps: Marilyn covered that song in 2004 and Cash was already dead

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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by tim10cc » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:03 am

Its 1977 ...Alice was at one of his heights of his drinking career....As far as we know in Alice's head Frank performed You & Me...

When I am drunk...I hear Frank singing You & Me and when I am really drunk I hear Blue Eyes singing King of the Silver Screen.
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Re: Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

Post by Robbie » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:27 am

In my last post on this topic I stated I remained unconvinced by the arguments of those accusing Alice of being a liar and a bs by referring to the context.I used the example of a funeral eulogy-I could add more, a wedding speech, an after dinner speech by a sportsman, a golden wedding speech, a leaving speech etc.etc. etc. They all, in many instances feature, I believe, embellished stories and elements of stretching the truth because the context demands it.
If we take the context of a rock star or perhaps equally important a famous personality giving an interview meant to be entertaining I asked the question (perhaps too obliquely)of why should Alice be any different to any other raconteur? No one responded so I will ask again more directly (and respectfully) to Toronto Bob and GNDM:
Within the context I have described why should Alice be any different to the thousands of other performers who do exactly the same when interviewed?

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