Frank Sinatra Did Not Cover "You And Me" By Alice Cooper

[Toronto Bob]

>I'd reckon that these tall stories / embellishments etc. have kept him a very interesting person to interview, his stories of meeting Elvis, Frank Sinatra and of course the Chicken incident are similar to a well honed stand-up routine.

Exactly. I really don't understand why people have such a problem with all this. Of course everyone wants to know the truth but there are times when the truth is incredibly boring and Alice does it to keep himself interested as much as anything else. At the expense of sounding pretentious, there are too many people around here who don't seem understand that and as a result they don't understand that this is one of the things that makes Alice different from other performers (what an astonishing concept). It is nothing to do with what Toronto Bob describes and everything to do with what GNDM describes.

When I want fiction I go to the movies or read a book, I'm not interested in reading or listening to lies of people supposedly recounting actual events. I mean what's the point of anything then? If we have such a blatant disregard for facts, why not stop communicating altogether and just invent our very own realities?

Funny how you freak out when someone says something that you disagree with and take them to task for not knowing the facts, yet you don't hold Alice to any such standard - quite the opposite.

I understand that Alice likes to fabricate stories to suit his ends or amuse himself - I just happen not to like when people lie. It can be amusing for a short time but there's just something sociopathic about a compulsive liar.

[killer wolf]

must admit, i'm all for interesting stories, but lies/made up anecdotes? I don't see the point. someone like Alice doesn't need them, he can tell actual events w/ enough flair and humour to make himself extremely amusing. if i love a story from someone (anyone) and then find out it's a total lie, it really colours my perception of them, negatively. if i start to disbelieve or doubt every word coming out of someone's mouth, that's not someone i want to be a fan of ~ i mean, seriously : what's the point in reading any interview or press release if you know there's a fair chance the content is going to be untrue? i'm already halfway there w/ promises of upcoming shows etc, all this talk of new theatrical shows and W2MN sections etc etc that then evolve into cover version sections, wears thin.

[Robbie]

I stand by my previous post. These are interviews meant to entertain a general audience they are not interrogations or a court of law!!!Tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and all that!! Some of the most outstanding interviewees have always known this. People like Ustinov, David Niven, Peter Sellers and perhaps most famously Muhammed Ali were booked so regularly for talk shows because they knew how to be excellent raconteurs which includes embellishing stories to make them more interesting or funny. The whole talk show format would collapse if the interviewers insisted on a dry recounting of fact after fact. Come on guys Alice is first and foremost an entertainer!

[killer wolf]

there's a difference between embellishing and making something totally up.

[A_MichaelUK]

>When I want fiction I go to the movies or read a book,

Alice Cooper is a fictional character, though.

>I'm not interested in reading or listening to lies of people supposedly recounting actual events. I mean what's the point of anything then?

TO BE ENTERTAINING AND TO CREATE MYTHS AND LEGENDS. They were calling themelves "The legendary Alice Cooper" as early as 1971, so hopefully you're not now saying all they did was tell "lies".

>If we have such a blatant disregard for facts, why not stop communicating altogether and just invent our very own realities?

Again, as I've pointed put previouly, you're seeing in things as 'either - or' because you seem to have no understanding of variables or as it says in "Sideshow", "different shades of grey". They are not "lies" in the sense that they are intend to deceive or hide the truth to obtain some kind of advantage. What do you do when your significant other asks you if his or her bottom looks big in tight trousers? Read the post from Seriously carefully. Is he or she a liar? Is Dennis Dunaway's story about the ouija board true? If not, is he a liar? Is the story about Neal Smith being shot in the foot by Alice true? If not, are they liars?

>Funny how you freak out when someone says something that you disagree with and take them to task for not knowing the facts,

I do no such thing or even remotely close to that. I "take them to task" when they maintain their positions despite being ill - informed. There is a big difference.

>yet you don't hold Alice to any such standard - quite the opposite.

Maybe I and others understand him better than you seem to.

>I understand that Alice likes to fabricate stories to suit his ends or amuse himself - I just happen not to like when people lie.

That sentence just proved my entire point. You obviously can't tell the difference between what he does and lying. I'm sure there's a term for that but then, "I'm not a mental health expert" either.

>It can be amusing for a short time but there's just something sociopathic about a compulsive liar.

You earlier admitted you were "not a mental health expert" so you need to stop using those terms.

[A_MichaelUK]

>that's not someone i want to be a fan of

Stop then. It seems you are labouring under the same misapprehension that Toronto Bob is.

> i'm already halfway there w/ promises of upcoming shows etc,

Which "promises"?!

[A_MichaelUK]

>there's a difference between embellishing and making something totally up.

It depends on the context. Read the post from Robbie carefully. He explains it perfectly. I like the boring truth as much as anybody, but I don't complain when a rock star (yes, A ROCK STAR) decides it's more amusing to embellish stories instead.

[Gunner]

Funny how you freak out when someone says something that you disagree with and take them to task for not knowing the facts, yet you don't hold Alice to any such standard - quite the opposite.

Excellent comment Toronto Bob! I would have put 'knowing the facts' in quotes though!

Back to the topic, I believe Sinatra did cover this song as a lie on this scale is even beyond Cooper - unless of course Cooper was wasted, which is always a possibility!

[A_MichaelUK]

>Back to the topic, I believe Sinatra did cover this song as a lie on this scale is even beyond Cooper

That is an incredible statement, in light of all the previous posts.

> - unless of course Cooper was wasted, which is always a possibility!

I suppose you posting nonsense "is always a possibility".

[GNDM]

I have no idea why Alice embellishes his stories or creates events that did not happen....but he is good at it, which only enhances his role as an "entertainer". Would I want him to write the definitive history on the Alice Cooper story? No...simply because I would worry that he now may actually believe some of his "yarns". (Again, I have no idea if he does or doesn't now believe his own partly fictitious tales)

Hey - take whatever Alice says with a grain of salt. Like all "old timers" his personal history has been morphed over time. If I want a more factual account of the Alice Cooper story, I will wait to read Dennis Dunaway's take on the band's history. But I am sure DD will have his own bending on a lot of stories....it can't be helped.

[Diane D.]

Truth is hard to define.

[Seriously]

So which is the truth Seriously- its either one or other- Zulu wars or SAS in WW2..won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't get the answer

Okay, caught me out there, but I did audition once for an American RR band in the late sixties called the ACG. I turned them down as the pay at the time wasn't great and I thought I knew better.

[A_MichaelUK]

I have no idea why Alice embellishes his stories or creates events that did not happen....

He does to entertain himself and others as much as for any other reason.

>but he is good at it, which only enhances his role as an "entertainer".

Exactly.

>Would I want him to write the definitive history on the Alice Cooper story? No

I agree.

>...simply because I would worry that he now may actually believe some of his "yarns". (Again, I have no idea if he does or doesn't now believe his own partly fictitious tales)

That isn't the reason. The reason is because there were too many other people involved, each with their own sides to the story.

> But I am sure DD will have his own bending on a lot of stories....it can't be helped.

Exactly.

[Billie1966]

MIchael.. Would you mind if I asked a question?? I had heard there was a demo somewhere of Johnny Cash and Alice doing a Marilyn Manson song called "Personal Jesus". Do you know of this?

Thanks
Danny~

[darkmenace]

"intend to deceive or hide the truth to obtain some kind of advantage."

If Alice knows that Frank Sinatra never really covered You and Me then saying so is an intention to deceive and I would guess the "advantage" would be it enhances his image and creates an entertaining story.

[darkmenace]

Here's the entire story:

http://www.examiner.com/article/frank-s ... ged-favors

There's a lot more to the story than the song itself. The question is: is it all made up or just parts? The part about the boy and the baseball game is pretty specific. If it happened then maybe Frank was truly thankful for Alice's favor and said he "owed him one," and Alice ran with that, embellishing with the story that Frank sang the song in concert.

Of course being specific doesn't necessarily make any aspect of the story true because Alice says Frank performed the song at the Hollywood Bowl in 1977, which is very specific but also clearly untrue.

[ThePainAddict]

Wow, I can't believe how it as to be either the absolute truth or some hugely fabricated lie meant to decieve a bunch of innocent fans. Perhaps this story, like many of Alice's, developed somewhat organically.
Alice meets Frank, Frank says something about liking Alice's ballad and wanting to perform it, (maybe he heard Only Women, I Never Cry, or even You & Me), Alice is thinking You & Me as it is current. Alice starts relating the story and it gradually becomes Frank actually played it.
Another version, some coke talk between individuals from both parties (not Alice or Frank and if you don't know what coke talk is, you are not from LA) and this message gets passed to Alice.
One more, Frank says the line in question, without even knowing any songs by Alice, but just as a throwaway line.
I could go on forever with scenarios in which this story could develop without having to ascribe complete fabrication, with nefarious designs, on Alice's part.
Most of us have plenty of great stories from our past, that I am sure did not occur exactly as we know tell the story. Many times, without us even being aware of how we have changed the story over time.

[guilty65]

It would be nice to here Bernie Taupins version of this. Alice Stated this in the(Audio Verison) of Golf Monster That Taupin was included on this as well. J ust a thought.

[Swinger]

MIchael.. Would you mind if I asked a question?? I had heard there was a demo somewhere of Johnny Cash and Alice doing a Marilyn Manson song called "Personal Jesus". Do you know of this?

Thanks
Danny~

While I don't have the answer you're looking for (wheter that demo exists or not) I want to clear a few things up. "Personal Jesus" is a Depeche Mode song, which Marilyn Manson did a cover of at one point. Johnny Cash did cover it as well (before Manson did) but Alice is not present on the final version.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I had heard there was a demo somewhere of Johnny Cash and Alice doing a Marilyn Manson song called "Personal Jesus". Do you know of this?

I am aware of the story.