Bowie

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:57 am

"Ziggy's androgynous and otherworldly appearance had a powerful influence on pop culture and signalled a challenge of social traditions."

Once again, a shame that Alice Cooper is disregarded in this respect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19473933

Diane D. · Post by **Diane D.** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Gunner wrote:"Ziggy's androgynous and otherworldly appearance had a powerful influence on pop culture and signalled a challenge of social traditions."

Once again, a shame that Alice Cooper is disregarded in this respect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19473933

Do you have a fixation on David Bowie?

HORRORHOLIC · Post by **HORRORHOLIC** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:39 pm

It's an article about Bowie so no surprise there. If it had been about Alice I'm sure it would have said something similar about his impact.

tuneylune · Post by **tuneylune** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:31 pm

I think Bowie gets more notice because he is an "artiste"-very serious all the time where Alice is more determined to be fun and thinks more of what the fans might want even if he's keeping himself interested-Bowie seems more interested in pleasing himself. Some good work by him, for sure, but not much after ALLADIN SANE has grabbed me. Also, most people writing articles tend to focus mainly on the "shocking" stage show and not the good music they could find-IF THEY WOULD LISTEN

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dadascot · Post by **dadascot** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:19 pm

"Ziggy's androgynous and otherworldly appearance had a powerful influence on pop culture and signalled a challenge of social traditions."
I think the article is very fair, Bowie has had a huge effect:That is a fact. It would have been very strange if, during an article about a Bowie exhibition the journalist had added "But not as much an influence as Alice Cooper".

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:45 am

"Do you have a fixation on David Bowie?"

No, but I keep being confronted (either in reading or watching) by items claiming he started something that Alice Cooper did first - and it's getting on my tits a bit to be frank.

"If it had been about Alice I'm sure it would have said something similar about his impact."

Yes, and it would have been right though and thus not a problem.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:50 am

dadascot wrote:"Ziggy's androgynous and otherworldly appearance had a powerful influence on pop culture and signalled a challenge of social traditions."
I think the article is very fair, Bowie has had a huge effect:That is a fact. It would have been very strange if, during an article about a Bowie exhibition the journalist had added "But not as much an influence as Alice Cooper".

I think you are missing the point, take this for example:

"Bowie's innovative approach to creating albums and touring shows centred around fictionalised stage personas, with 1972 marking the birth of his most famous creation Ziggy Stardust - a human manifestation of an alien being."

Does that not suggest he was the innovator? You see, I wouldn't mind if this was a 'one-off' item but they NEVER EVER EVER credit Alice where it is due.

Diane D. · Post by **Diane D.** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:51 pm

Gunner wrote:"Do you have a fixation on David Bowie?"

No, but I keep being confronted (either in reading or watching) by items claiming he started something that Alice Cooper did first - and it's getting on my tits a bit to be frank.

"If it had been about Alice I'm sure it would have said something similar about his impact."

Yes, and it would have been right though and thus not a problem.

I came across this quote from David: ''I wanted to imbue Ziggy with real flesh and blood and muscle, and it was imperative that I find Ziggy and be him''. Alice never wanted to be Alice, how many times he said that Alice the persona was a complete different entity than the real Alice.

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:40 pm

I guess the BBC being British are going to look for British influences...Also in Britain Alice's sales really dipped around the time of MOL issue( I raised this in another discussion ages ago..chart wise School Days did better in UK than MOL, so unfairly people tended to forget the original influence of AC)...all we had in 73/74 was TV, Radio and live gigs and Alice didnt tour BDB or MOL in UK so the historians were left with Bowie.. I like Bowie/its unfair on AC/but I can understand it..History always seems to be written in reverse..Also it mat be true that DB wanted to imbue Ziggy with real flesh and blood etc..but he didnt do it for long..bad for ones health adopting a persona perhaps.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:13 am

Diane D. wrote:
Gunner wrote:"Do you have a fixation on David Bowie?"

No, but I keep being confronted (either in reading or watching) by items claiming he started something that Alice Cooper did first - and it's getting on my tits a bit to be frank.

"If it had been about Alice I'm sure it would have said something similar about his impact."

Yes, and it would have been right though and thus not a problem.
I came across this quote from David: ''I wanted to imbue Ziggy with real flesh and blood and muscle, and it was imperative that I find Ziggy and be him''. Alice never wanted to be Alice, how many times he said that Alice the persona was a complete different entity than the real Alice.

I'm not entirely sure what David is getting at there; is he saying that he wanted to BE Ziggy rather than 'play' him? Because Alice LOVES 'playing' Alice.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:18 am

recoop wrote:I guess the BBC being British are going to look for British influences...Also in Britain Alice's sales really dipped around the time of MOL issue( I raised this in another discussion ages ago..chart wise School Days did better in UK than MOL, so unfairly people tended to forget the original influence of AC)...all we had in 73/74 was TV, Radio and live gigs and Alice didnt tour BDB or MOL in UK so the historians were left with Bowie.. I like Bowie/its unfair on AC/but I can understand it..History always seems to be written in reverse..Also it mat be true that DB wanted to imbue Ziggy with real flesh and blood etc..but he didnt do it for long..bad for ones health adopting a persona perhaps.

BBC are propagandists in general I feel, but that is a side issue.

An innovator and original transcends nationality...no excuses there.

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:35 pm

Gunner wrote:
BBC are propagandists in general I feel, but that is a side issue.

There's certainly some truth in that. The BBC has a habit of being very selective in their programme making. Some 'facts' and historical events are not convenient enough for their story telling.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:11 pm

The broadcaster Danny Baker recently tweeted this which I think sums it up nicely

Danny Baker (@prodnose)
01/09/2012 10:39 PM
Watching Alice Cooper on TOTP - I know Bowie gets all the acclaim for Glam but AC had been at this racket for 18 months by Schools Out.

andyrushworth · Post by **andyrushworth** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:24 pm

According to Mick Ronson [who's favorite glam track was ACs Be My Lover] Bowie was obsessed by Iggy Pop !

Alice was great during the 70s as was Bowie ,but without any shadow of doubt Bowie was considered to be the most outrageous , I'd say Alice was the first to make it so Bowie had to out outrage Alice by professing to be Bisexual and he did !

Diane D. · Post by **Diane D.** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:53 pm

andyrushworth wrote:According to Mick Ronson [who's favorite glam track was ACs Be My Lover] Bowie was obsessed by Iggy Pop !

Alice was great during the 70s as was Bowie ,but without any shadow of doubt Bowie was considered to be the most outrageous , I'd say Alice was the first to make it so Bowie had to out outrage Alice by professing to be Bisexual and he did !

So... he was bisexual... so what!

jacknifejohnny · Post by **jacknifejohnny** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:19 am

it was a pretty big statement back in the day. IMO Bowie was really good in the early days, Space Oddity, Man Who Stole The World,Hunky Dory, Ziggy Stardust, pretty good with Aladdin Sane and Diamond Dogs, then it all went to shit for a while, wow, that sounds familiar. Thinking back, Station To Station was pretty good also.

Diane D. · Post by **Diane D.** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:48 am

jacknifejohnny wrote:it was a pretty big statement back in the day. IMO Bowie was really good in the early days, Space Oddity, Man Who Stole The World,Hunky Dory, Ziggy Stardust, pretty good with Aladdin Sane and Diamond Dogs, then it all went to shit for a while, wow, that sounds familiar. Thinking back, Station To Station was pretty good also.

I'm not really into those songs, but I like the songs he did for movies, like the following, and also I like him a lot as an actor in ''The Hunger''.

http://youtu.be/dAagFKdsSNs
and Heroes - Christiane F.

jacknifejohnny · Post by **jacknifejohnny** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:55 am

Should read " Man Who Sold The World ", long day. Always found him a tad pretentious and arrogent in interviews

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:16 am

recoop wrote:I guess the BBC being British are going to look for British influences...Also in Britain Alice's sales really dipped around the time of MOL issue( I raised this in another discussion ages ago..chart wise School Days did better in UK than MOL, so unfairly people tended to forget the original influence of AC)...all we had in 73/74 was TV, Radio and live gigs and Alice didnt tour BDB or MOL in UK so the historians were left with Bowie.. I like Bowie/its unfair on AC/but I can understand it..History always seems to be written in reverse..Also it mat be true that DB wanted to imbue Ziggy with real flesh and blood etc..but he didnt do it for long..bad for ones health adopting a persona perhaps.

even though the School Days retrospective compilation reached #13 in the UK album chart that was Warner Bros cashing in on the success of Billion Dollar Babies reaching #1 and spending 23 weeks on the chart. Muscle Of Love may have only reached #34 on the UK album chart but with Teenage Lament 74 reaching #12 in the UK singles chart, it was a bigger success than the School Days compilation.

School Days had a higher UK album chart position than Love It To Death, Killer & Welcome To My Nightmare, but it wasn't a bigger album! Welcome To My Nightmare is certified silver in the UK even though it only made #19 in the UK album chart, six places below School Days, chart positions can be deceptive as they don't tell the whole story!

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:56 am

andyrushworth wrote: Alice was great during the 70s as was Bowie ,but without any shadow of doubt Bowie was considered to be the most outrageous , I'd say Alice was the first to make it so Bowie had to out outrage Alice by professing to be Bisexual and he did !

Naaaah! Being bi-sexual was not more shocking than being anti-school, anti-parents, gender-confused, singing about necrophilia, chopping up babies, staging executions, being constantly drunk and dirty etc etc!!!

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