Musicans who found religion

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Musicans who found religion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:02 pm

"Golly gee it's wrong to be so guilty..."

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by Desperado22 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:09 pm

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by scotty » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:42 am

don't feel bad,I consider myself a big beatles fan,and I missed that too! poor prince...a JW? those folks are brainwwashed IMO,not faithful,just brainwashed. Alice is the most sincere of the group in the article,and it's clearly not a phase with him. he lives it,and it's obvious that he has his life in order starting with his faith.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by steven_crayn » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:25 pm

scotty wrote:don't feel bad,I consider myself a big beatles fan,and I missed that too! poor prince...a JW? those folks are brainwwashed IMO,not faithful,just brainwashed. Alice is the most sincere of the group in the article,and it's clearly not a phase with him. he lives it,and it's obvious that he has his life in order starting with his faith.
Just because faith may come first in someone's life doesn't mean their life is necessarily in order (and I'm not necessarily talking about Alice Cooper here). Religion has done more harm to this world than anything.

How can you say the others are less sincere? Cat Stevens for example gave up music for a long time because of his faith and though I am a critic of his religion in particular, I would say he believes in it.
You only have to look at how he supported the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie to see his true colours.

Personally I think Ozzy said it best

"How many times can they fill me with lies and I listen, again
Twisting the truth and they're playin' around with my head O.K.
The things they will do and the things they will say
When they don't really understand
Tears fill my eyes when I hear all the cries
For the reason today.
And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about
And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve.
Leave me alone don't want your promises no more
'Cause rock'n'roll is my religion and my law"
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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:31 pm

steven_crayn wrote: "How many times can they fill me with lies and I listen, again
Twisting the truth and they're playin' around with my head O.K.
The things they will do and the things they will say
When they don't really understand
Tears fill my eyes when I hear all the cries
For the reason today.
And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about
And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve.
Leave me alone don't want your promises no more
'Cause rock'n'roll is my religion and my law"
Who wrote that song for Ozzy?
"Golly gee it's wrong to be so guilty..."

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by scotty » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:39 pm

somebody obviously bitter,who thinks God is a genie in a bottle. some people believe You have to do the WORKS of God to reap the benefits. Alice does this (solid rock foundation,charities,sunday school,etc.).
If you don't believe to begin with,who or what are you coming down on anyway?

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by tuneylune » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:59 pm

They forgot to mention THREE members of Fleetwood Mac (Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwan) also saw the light. My take on religion is if it works for you, Bravo! Just don't try to push it on someone else. Like how Alice will talk about it, but briefly as it really is a private matter and no body's business but his own.
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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by Diane D. » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:08 pm

steven_crayn wrote:
scotty wrote:don't feel bad,I consider myself a big beatles fan,and I missed that too! poor prince...a JW? those folks are brainwwashed IMO,not faithful,just brainwashed. Alice is the most sincere of the group in the article,and it's clearly not a phase with him. he lives it,and it's obvious that he has his life in order starting with his faith.
Just because faith may come first in someone's life doesn't mean their life is necessarily in order (and I'm not necessarily talking about Alice Cooper here). Religion has done more harm to this world than anything.

How can you say the others are less sincere? Cat Stevens for example gave up music for a long time because of his faith and though I am a critic of his religion in particular, I would say he believes in it.
You only have to look at how he supported the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie to see his true colours.

Personally I think Ozzy said it best

"How many times can they fill me with lies and I listen, again
Twisting the truth and they're playin' around with my head O.K.
The things they will do and the things they will say
When they don't really understand
Tears fill my eyes when I hear all the cries
For the reason today.
And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about
And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve.
Leave me alone don't want your promises no more
'Cause rock'n'roll is my religion and my law"
It's not religion that has done harm to this world, it's not God, it's the fanatics that has done harm to this world more than anything else, and by fanatics, I'm talking about the STUPID ones, they can all burn in Hell... and go see if I'm there...
[

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by criss » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:09 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
steven_crayn wrote: "How many times can they fill me with lies and I listen, again
Twisting the truth and they're playin' around with my head O.K.
The things they will do and the things they will say
When they don't really understand
Tears fill my eyes when I hear all the cries
For the reason today.
And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about
And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve.
Leave me alone don't want your promises no more
'Cause rock'n'roll is my religion and my law"
Who wrote that song for Ozzy?

BraveWords.com: ‘You Can’t Kill Rock And Roll’ is a great anthem.

Daisley: “Ozzy came up with that line and I wrote all the lyrics for it. People have asked me if it was about Don Arden or Jet Records. It wasn’t about anyone in particular. It was just a general statement. Very often you get these people in management trying to tell you what to do and they don’t know what they’re talking about. They are telling you, the artist, what to write, how to play or how to sing or what you should or should not do. Then when they’ve done that, they **** you or rip you off. It was about being controlled and screwed in the music business. Just in general, no one in particular. That’s why I said ‘I can’t believe what empty heads can achieve.’ I mean, you’re telling me what to do? You don’t **** know. You don’t tell me.” (laughs).
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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by Nick » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:23 pm

two things i never go out of my way to find out or listen to when it comes to my favorite entertainers: their politics and their god. i admire alice and have loved every facet of his career as a singer, a songwriter, a performer and an entertainer. i personally switch off when it comes to discussing politics and religion, and alice thankfully has not bashed us over the head with either of these. sure, bits of his religious beliefs crept into some of his later works (TLT) but the album can just as easily be listened to as another take on something wicked this way comes. The religious set will find what they want to see, the rest of us haven't been bashed over the head with it. just my take.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by darkmenace » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:12 pm

I agree with Nick. I personally don't agree with Alice's politics or his religious beliefs but that doesn't bother me unless he tries to preach or makes it part of his image the way Ted Nugent does. Sometimes Alice gets precariously close: The opening song on W2MN sounds like a religious song and I always skip it because I can't figure out why a Nightmare album would open with a song like that.

Alice has made golf part of his image and I don't like golf nor do I like how it diminishes him as an artist to showcase it so much, but that's just a hobby and I try to ignore it.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:25 pm

>The opening song on W2MN sounds like a religious song

Obviously you're aware that that is nothing new.

> I always skip it because I can't figure out why a Nightmare album would open with a song like that.

Think of it as a prayer before he goes to sleep.

>Alice has made golf part of his image and I don't like golf nor do I like how it diminishes him as an artist to showcase it so much,

That really doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it.

>go beyond the things that but that's just a hobby and I try to ignore it.

You don't seem to be doing a good job of it. If it's really so hard for you to get over the things that seem to upset you so much, that says more about you than it does about anything else. People didn't like the band breaking - up, they didn't like Alice being on "Hollywood Squares", they didn't like him being on "The Muppet Show", they don't like him being a Christian or playing a particular sport, yet he continues to thrive. None of that has any impact on his work. It doesn't "diminish him as an artist" at all. You need to rise above your own prejudices and preconceptions. It's about the quality of the work. You either like it or you don't and either of those is fine but not if you apply those rather spurious reasons.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by recoop » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:54 pm

I agree with Andy that it is about the quality of the work ultimately. Going off on a tangent it could be seen that thay Hollywood Squares and Muppet Show appearances made good Marketing decisions in soemone who perhaps wanted to be seen more by the mainstream.(AC has talked about that there would be no escaping him if he appeared on Hollywood Squares).

Also, an individual who has been through as much personal stuff/addiction such as Alice will almost certainly reveal his self/beliefs and interests to some degree in his output.Alice has been developing as a person over the years and this has been reflected in his lyrics.some we like, some we don't but that is influenced by our tastes/prejudices (already said by Andy)...e.g. I really like The last Temptation..it might have religious overtones but to me even if I don't share the religious overtones its a good tale. Also even Alice's early work has lyrics which can refer to religion...e.g. LITD.."walk upon the water..talk again to angels by my side etc"
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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by old school vet » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:56 pm

People tend to forget how much stick Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin took over "Finding Religion" and how others that have followed since, such as Alice Cooper have also been at the receiving end of unnecessary, unfair and unjust comments. We all have our individual faiths and beliefs and this can be a simple thing like following a particular rock star or football team etc etc. If thats what floats your boat, so beit, but don't ram it down the throats of others who may have thier own boats to float.
Although I tend to preach my particular type of religion to anyone who will listen - Alice Cooper My god - yeah yeah yeah!

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by darkmenace » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:39 pm

>The opening song on W2MN sounds like a religious song

>Obviously you're aware that that is nothing new.

I figured, but I also heard an interview where Bob Ezrin said the song was about Alice's relationship with his audience so I'm not sure what the official answer is. Either way as an opener I skip it.


>Alice has made golf part of his image and I don't like golf nor do I like how it diminishes him as an artist to showcase it so much,

>That really doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it.

We'll probably disagree on this point but all the emphasis on golf diminishes his image among some music fans. You might not like that, but there's no doubt about it. Think about it: What if Salvador Dali enjoyed soccer and titled his autobiography Soccer Fiend or something like that? Alice is entitled to like whatever hobbies he wants and to talk about them as much as he wants, but when he does it front and center there's risk. Let's say a young person is potentially interested in a band or artist and sees their autobiography and it's titled Auto Facing Fanatic. Many people would think twice before buying, especially those that don't like auto racing. So I say: why mix apples and oranges in the first place?


>go beyond the things that but that's just a hobby and I try to ignore it.

>You don't seem to be doing a good job of it.

I'm doing a great job. I've stayed a fan all my life. I lose no sleep over this.

>If it's really so hard for you to get over the things that seem to upset you so much, that says more about you than it does about anything else. People didn't like the band breaking - up, they didn't like Alice being on "Hollywood Squares", they didn't like him being on "The Muppet Show", they don't like him being a Christian or playing a particular sport, yet he continues to thrive.

We'll probably disagree here again. Thriving is a relative term. I believe Alice lost many fans in the 70s and beyond for things like appearing on Hollywood Squares, etc. I think he has made some career decisions that have reduced his fan base. He was a huge cutting edge superstar in the early 70s and he should be selling more albums and drawing larger crowds today but part of what held him back is the things we're talking about. When I think of Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden and their stature in the music industry, it should be Iron Maiden opening for Alice Cooper instead of the other way around. But Iron Maiden has a larger fan base.


>You need to rise above your own prejudices and preconceptions.

I have. I also recognize that many music fans and people who enjoy pop culture in general have prejudices and preconceptions and Alice and his management have ignored this several times at their own peril.


>It's about the quality of the work. You either like it or you don't and either of those is fine but not if you apply those rather spurious reasons.

Yes, I agree, the quality of the work is what should matter. What I like about Alice is he's his own person, take him or leave him. That's what I take from it personally. But looking at it from a broader point of view, I think he hasn't protected his image and sense of artistry as well as he could and unfortunately this has distracted people from just that: the quality of his work.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:48 am

>I figured, but I also heard an interview where Bob Ezrin said the song was about Alice's relationship with his audience so I'm not sure what the official answer is.

Who says there has to be one, though? As has been discussed here before, you can interpret it in any number of ways – it can be about his wife, his faith or his supporters or even all of those as well.

>Either way as an opener I skip it.

That’s fine if you don’t like the lyrics, the melody, the performance, the arrangement or the production, but if you don’t like it because of what you think it’s about, one would hope you could separate that from the other elements.

>We'll probably disagree on this point but all the emphasis on golf diminishes his image among some music fans.

Yes, the ones who don’t understand how the real world works and who see things as black or white only. They’ve had since 1973 to get used to it. If they haven’t by now, again, it says more about them than anything else.

>You might not like that, but there's no doubt about it. Think about it: What if Salvador Dali enjoyed soccer and titled his autobiography Soccer Fiend or something like that?

I wouldn’t care. I don’t care that Mike Rutherford plays polo or that Roger Daltrey enjoys fishing.

>Alice is entitled to like whatever hobbies he wants and to talk about them as much as he wants, but when he does it front and center there's risk.

That’s true, but you’re missing one essential point which is that you (I don’t mean you, literally) can’t it both ways – you can’t on the one hand complain that Alice panders to an audience (say, by making a heavy metal album or pretends to be ‘evil’), then complain when Alice is honest about his life and what it comprises of. There’s plenty of people like you that aren’t keen on the fact that he has a favourite sport (like it’s anyone’s business) and complain that he isn’t ‘real’ enough just as there’s plenty of people who think he will pander to anyone and is only driven by commerce. As far as the “risk” is concerned, of course there was some but it would have been rather pathetic if Alice had spent the years since 1973 pretending that he lived the sort of life people thought he portrayed.

> So I say: why mix apples and oranges in the first place?

For the reason I gave above. Again, if he had hidden the fact that he has a favourite sport or had a particular faith, someone like you would have accused him of hypocrisy. One would hope that, by now, people are able to separate what is essentially an acting part from reality.

>I'm doing a great job.

But it bothered you enough to post about it.

>I've stayed a fan all my life.

Maybe but one who doesn’t seem to want him to be allowed to live his life the way he wants to live it.

> Thriving is a relative term.

Yes, it is. Try this: since 1996, he has averaged around eighty shows a year, playing to hundreds of thousands of people each year (earning millions of dollars) and has continued to make albums, films, appear all over the popular media and entrench his position as an icon of popular culture. Sure, he doesn’t sell millions of records and concert tickets like Kiss, Ozzy Osbourne or Aerosmith do, but he’s doing pretty well and by the way, the artists I’ve just named have been just as honest in their own way about what their real lives are like, but it doesn’t seem to have affected them too badly. It’s a pretty sad reflection when their fans appear to be a lot more open - minded than certain Alice Cooper fans seem to be. How’s your career as an international rock star going?

>I believe Alice lost many fans in the 70s and beyond for things like appearing on Hollywood Squares, etc. I think he has made some career decisions that have reduced his fan base.

There's some truth to that, but again, that says more about that section of the population than anything else and I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said they became interested in him because of his appearance on “The Muppet Show”.

>He was a huge cutting edge superstar in the early 70s and he should be selling more albums and drawing larger crowds today but part of what held him back is the things we're talking about.

There is only a little truth in that. It isn’t “the early 70s” anymore - we are too far away from that era for any of what you say to make a huge difference to the situation now and as far as “cutting edge” goes, if you think one can stay on the “cutting edge” for several decades, you only need to look at the current careers of many other “cutting edge” artists and see how those careers are going.

>When I think of Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden and their stature in the music industry, it should be Iron Maiden opening for Alice Cooper instead of the other way around.

I agree but that’s something based on your personal taste. It doesn’t reflect the reality of the music business. That’s the part you don’t seem to understand. Otherwise Justin Beiber wouldn’t be selling more albums than Paul McCartney does.

>I have.

No you have not. You just admitted you “skip” “I Am Made Of You” because of what you think the song is about.

>I also recognize that many music fans and people who enjoy pop culture in general have prejudices and preconceptions and Alice and his management have ignored this several times at their own peril.

So you’re saying that the alternative is to be a complete whore and pander to what the audience wants or expects.

> What I like about Alice is he's his own person, take him or leave him.

That’s what you “like”?! You just spent two posts finding things to complain about.

>I think he hasn't protected his image and sense of artistry as well as he could and unfortunately this has distracted people from just that: the quality of his work.

That is because most “people” are idiots because they let themselves be “distracted”. Even Marilyn Manson, Prince, Iggy Pop and Michael Jackson had to eventually let the mask slip. It’s impossible to keep up the act indefinitely as Kurt Cobain found out and we know how that story ended.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by Loomis » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:17 am

darkmenace wrote:>

We'll probably disagree here again. Thriving is a relative term. I believe Alice lost many fans in the 70s and beyond for things like appearing on Hollywood Squares, etc. I think he has made some career decisions that have reduced his fan base. He was a huge cutting edge superstar in the early 70s and he should be selling more albums and drawing larger crowds today but part of what held him back is the things we're talking about. When I think of Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden and their stature in the music industry, it should be Iron Maiden opening for Alice Cooper instead of the other way around. But Iron Maiden has a larger fan base.


>You need to rise above your own prejudices and preconceptions.

I have. I also recognize that many music fans and people who enjoy pop culture in general have prejudices and preconceptions and Alice and his management have ignored this several times at their own peril.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. You argue that by going on Hollywood Squares and the Muppet Show, Alice lost some fans for being too commercial or a sellout. Then you talk about people that enjoy pop culture having certain prejudices and preconceptions about Alice. Both of those shows at the time were pop culture. Both were incredibly popular shows as well.

Wouldn't going on those shows help to shatter some of those prejudices and preconceptions?

As far as golf or his faith, without either, Alice most likely wouldn't be able to tour. Hell he probably wouldn't even be alive, given the path he was on before rediscovering his faith.
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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by Gunner » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:49 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:
Think of it as a prayer before he goes to sleep.
Nice, but it's not a very successful bedtime prayer as he has a nightmare.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:42 pm

>As far as golf or his faith, without either, Alice most likely wouldn't be able to tour. Hell he probably wouldn't even be alive, given the path he was on before rediscovering his faith.

Exactly.

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Re: Musicans who found religion

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:43 pm

>Nice, but it's not a very successful bedtime prayer

It doesn't have to be. He isn't specifically asking not to have a bad dream.

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