OLD SCHOOL 1964-1974 one year later...

[dadascot]

To tuneyloon, that's for the comments on my humour, glad someone respects my warped sense of Irony, unlike my ex, but I didn't comment on Monkey shine never having seen it. But I think you spoke a lot of sense, this is meant to be an place for people to share their love, appreciation and opinions on all things Alice but seems to be taken over by ego stroking and people who are only determined to get the last word, sometimes I let this irritate me but mostly I find it hilarious. So just enjoy the madness.

[A_MichaelUK]

>this is meant to be an place for people to share their love, appreciation and opinions on all things Alice

I agree but that shouldn't include lies, misinformation, speculation and assumptions. Those should be challenged. Do you not agree?

[Robbie]

I have enjoyed reading about this topic.Not having any experience at all of involvement in a project like this I have a couple of questions for Andy and Ingo which I hope they might take time to answer.Did you all meet together in person to discuss what should be included or was communication through the internet / telephone etc.? Ultimately who had the final say where there were conflicting opinions? Where there any memorable / exciting moments were you heard or saw something you had never come across before?
I totally understand if you can't answer because of confidentiality and thanks in anticipation.

[A_MichaelUK]

>.Did you all meet together in person to discuss what should be included

No.

> or was communication through the internet / telephone etc.?

Yes.

> Ultimately who had the final say

It depends on which aspect of it you're referring to but mainly Bob Ezrin (on the audio), Ernie Cefalu (on the visual aspects) and Dan Rutley (on the DVD), although they were all very generous in deferring to me or one of the other participants, also.

> where there were conflicting opinions?

Yes. There were some very passionate debates.

>Where there any memorable / exciting moments were you heard or saw something you had never come across before?

Some of the photographs were pretty incredible but we weren't able to use the majority of them for various reasons. Also, seeing The Academy Of Music footage from the "Killer" tour, the interview with Alice and the band from 1973 and the dressing - room footage from the Hollywood Bowl was fascinating. There was more that has never been widely (or even never) seen that, unfortunately, we were unable to use (or had no real reason to include). If we had use everything we wanted, the item could have ended up costing more than double and then some people would really have complained.


I totally understand if you can't answer because of confidentiality and thanks in anticipation.

[Robbie]

Many thanks Andy for the insight into the process behind such a project. Must be an amazing experience to be involved in something like that.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Must be an amazing experience to be involved in something like that.

Yes it was, although I did some work on "The Life And Crimes Of Alice Cooper" as well and a few other things also. The special issue of "Classic Rock" was a big task too although in a different way.

[mestreech]

I don't have any clue but how are the cost for buying old video footage?
Let's say I wanna buy the Paris 1972 show? How much is this worth?
I know that no one has the definite answer on that but an indication would be nice.

[mestreech]

And NO I'm not planning to buy that footage.
But if it's affordable and can be done legally maybe it's a thought of doing it with more fans.

[A_MichaelUK]

> don't have any clue but how are the cost for buying old video footage?

It depends on who wants it and why (and I think, sometimes how much of it you want).

[A_MichaelUK]

>But if it's affordable and can be done legally maybe it's a thought of doing it with more

I am ninety - nine per cent certain, that would not be allowed. This kind of material is generally not sold to individuals but is licensed to companies who want to broadcast it or who want to release it. If an individual was to acquire it for reasons other than these, the material would have a water - mark on it and even then, it could still cost hundreds and maybe even thousands of pounds (but again, it depends on the material).

[mestreech]

shame but thanks

[James1981]

I don't have any clue but how are the cost for buying old video footage?
Let's say I wanna buy the Paris 1972 show? How much is this worth?
I know that no one has the definite answer on that but an indication would be nice.

The one i would love to see released is the ABC special. Best ACG footage ever, would love to have a quality copy of it.

[steven_crayn]

It's interesting what you said about the Hollywood Bowl Bootleg Andy, I always thought Alice's vocal on that live version of Public Animal wasn't as good as some of the other performances from that gig. I really still love the performance of the extended version of Is It My Body where for me Alice vocally and the band musically really came up with one of the best performances that ever surfaced on a bootleg recording.

I really love the Big Apple Dreaming version from Toronto but appreciate sound quality and getting everyone to agree on what goes on and what doesn't is difficult.

A year on I still think it is a good product and I have an extensive collection of rare stuff, but sadly some people are never satisfied and are deluded enough to think they can do better, but enough of Toronto Bob.

Oh before you have a go Toronto Bob what you need to learn is that Andy argues his case rationally something you could learn to do, I once had a major disagreement with him on here about Alice and the BBC but he managed to change my mind (not easy) by arguing his points rationally, you on the other hand come out with things that are really out of order. I know I've annoyed people at times and most of them deserve it for their ridiculous comments, but you are the king of the vented spleen!

[homerx]

Did they ever record a full version of The Lady Is A Tramp. Would have loved to see a soundtrack from good to see you again.

Slick Black Limousine would have been a cool reissue on a thicker disc to have the look of the flexi but the duability of a 45.

Old School pt2 an cheaper compliment to the main one. be enough out there for a few discs.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I always thought Alice's vocal on that live version of Public Animal wasn't as good as some of the other performances from that gig.

Maybe not but I still thought it might have been worth having that tour represented and that was really the only song that could have been used.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Would have loved to see a soundtrack from good to see you again.

The live recordings on the re - release of "Billion Dollar Babies" from 2001 sort of already is that.

[Toronto Bob]

Hey steven_....

Are you still sore from trying to argue Alice was "bigger" than Zeppelin in 1973?

DIMMA is the only person that had concrete reasons about why certain material could not be included in the box set. He clearly and graciously explained, there was no nonsense and it gave everyone information they can use. The cannot be said for amuk.

I still think my criticisms are fair and not unduly harsh. Clearly no one in the band or close to the band, kept a somewhat complete or quality audio archive. That's just a fact, yet I mention it and somehow resident experts like amuk take exception to it and people like you say "Andy argues his case rationally" and that's something I need to "learn how to do". What's so irrational about pointing out omissions/short comings in the set?

Other acts just as old or older than the ACG have managed to release quality archival material. Riddle me this steven - Since Alice was (arguably)the biggest act of 1973, and no one took it upon themselves to record and KEEP the tapes of the Holiday tour, why the hell shouldn't a fan, years later be able to point that out and lament how this box could/should of been better.

If that's irrational to you, so be it, I believe otherwise.

[A_MichaelUK]

DIMMA is the only person that had concrete reasons about why certain material could not be included in the box set.

Try and UNDERSTAND this concept - you did not ASK for any "reasons". If you had done, I would have supplied you with them but you did not.

> Clearly no one in the band or close to the band, kept a somewhat complete or quality audio archive. That's just a fact, yet I mention it and somehow resident experts like amuk take exception

I never took "exception". WARNING - here's a reality check for you - you are obsessed with the whole "archive" thing so since you STILL have not grasped this, I will try and make it as clear for you as is possible. When you're in a big rock group, it's the seventies, you're drunk and mentally and physically worn down by a relentless work schedule, the last thing that is going to cross your mind is documenting everything that happens. When they had the time to do it, they literally could not afford the tape (ask Dennis) and when they could afford it, they were working so hard so hard they didn't know what day of the week it was and also nobody back then could have even conceived of the idea that decades later, ANYONE would care about that stuff. It never occured to any of them that would be the case. Do they regret it? Dennis has said he does, but that's the way it was back then and as a result, that's the way it is now, yet you still persist about an "archive". It's very easy to be an expert in retrospect.

> What's so irrational about pointing out omissions/short comings in the set?

Is that a serious question? I can answer that easily. It isn't !irrational" at all but the problem was, you did it an "irrational" way.

Other acts just as old or older than the ACG have managed to release quality archival material.

WHO CARES?! INSTEAD OF COMING HERE AND CONSTANLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, WHY DON'T YOU WRITE TO ALICE, NEAL, DENNIS AND MICHAEL WITH THAT C0MPLAINT?! WHEN YOU DO, LET US KNOW HOW THEY RESPOND!

>Riddle me this steven - Since Alice was (arguably)the biggest act of 1973, and no one took it upon themselves to record and KEEP the tapes of the Holiday tour, why the hell shouldn't a fan, years later be able to point that out and lament how this box could/should of been better.

Because you're being in expert in retrospect and that isn't rational. You're not putting yourself into that time and situation, but then again, you don't seem to find it easy to empathise with others which explains a lot of the attitude in your posts. By the way, no sound - board recordings of The Nazz appear to have survived either. Perhaps you'd like to whine and complain about that as well.

[Robbie]

"By the way, no sound - board recordings of The Nazz appear to have survived either" Andy wrote.

Not being pedantic Andy but I would be surprised if they were even using a soundboard (if by that you mean a mixing desk) let alone recording from it! It is sometimes easy to forget just how primitive sound systems / lighting was back in the early seventies which is why Toronto Bob's "hindsight is 20 / 20 vision". It's like all historical evidence some survives for one reason or another some doesn't.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Not being pedantic Andy but I would be surprised if they were even using a soundboard (if by that you mean a mixing desk) let alone recording from it!

Yes, that did occur to me. However, I was using it as a generic sort of term to represent any high - quality or professional recordings from that time and I could have just as easily used the "School's Out" tour as an example.

It is sometimes easy to forget just how primitive sound systems / lighting was back in the early seventies

Yes, although the Hollywood Bowl recordings of The Beatles are pretty good (although they needed a lot of work done to them before they could be released).

>which is why Toronto Bob's "hindsight is 20 / 20 vision". It's like all historical evidence some survives for one reason or another some doesn't.

Exactly.