New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by SickThings » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:58 pm

The Professor wrote:
GNDM wrote:Sorry if this has been dealt with.....

Is there a part in this book that mentions a 'bass' solo by Glen Buxton....or was that from some other publication/story?
I think the post was about a recent concert review in some other publication
Yes, it was a review of one of the first four shows of this tour.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by SickThings » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:03 pm

The Professor wrote:Hunter - well that is always the question, isn't it. But the flip of that is, how do we know that what we already believe to be correct is the true story?
Well, there are certain facts that are easily verified and authenticated---and some of those are what this author got wrong. And because of that, the entire book's contents are thrown into question, IMO. The rest of it may be factual, but unless you cross-check everything with other sources, you'll never know if the bits that were new to you are factual or not.

And none of this would matter at all if the book wasn't being passed off as a biography of Alice Cooper.

But you're right, when a "fact" is based only on something Alice or someone else said sometime, there's only so far you can trust it. The wilder the story from Alice, the more likely it is fabricated or exaggerated for effect (and not necessarily intentionally in either case).

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by Robbie » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Welcome aboard "The Professor"!
You refer to my T.Rex comments in two of your posts so I will re-iterate. Thompson is simply wrong about this. He wrote T.Rex were "still a rootsy folkadelic band" before The Slider. No they were not!!"Ride a White swan" may just about feature a whimsical folkiness (despite the electric guitars) but "Hot Love", "Get it On", "Jeepster","Telegram Sam" and "Metal Guru"?-come on! Bolan had stopped sitting cross legged on the floor with his bongo playing sidekick (Steve Toook)for a considerable time.He had already moved to the classic lineup of Legend, Currie and Finn (a typical rock trio) even if he did sit on the floor for a couple of acoustic songs in his live show. Am not being pedantic or nit picking simply disagreeing with a distortion of the truth to serve an argument about the arrival/ impact of Alice Cooper in the summer of '72.
Fot all that, as I stated I have enjoyed the book so far. Loved his comment about the defining nature of the spring and summer of '72 in rock history. Couldn't agree more although I am bound to say that as I was twelve years old and on the cusp of adolescence!!

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by recoop » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:08 pm

From reading all the comments, this book sounds like a hoot but i can get cheaper laughs on youtube..on a wider point I always find it amazing that many people think rock stars can remember a gig or happening in say 1973...how many of us if old enough could even remember a working day ten years ago without aloohol/other substances having got in the way...and rock stars are entertainers and are likely to tell the most entertaining story imo..its only r'n'r
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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by NotSoPerfect » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:48 am

GNDM wrote:Sorry if this has been dealt with.....

Is there a part in this book that mentions a 'bass' solo by Glen Buxton....or was that from some other publication/story?
GNDM, as a few other have stated, that was NOT in this book, but a review of the Burlington, IA show that I attended on the 17th. There is a link on the news page to a review in "The Hawkeye."
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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by cherrypie » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:07 am

recoop wrote:From reading all the comments, this book sounds like a hoot but i can get cheaper laughs on youtube..on a wider point I always find it amazing that many people think rock stars can remember a gig or happening in say 1973...how many of us if old enough could even remember a working day ten years ago without aloohol/other substances having got in the way...and rock stars are entertainers and are likely to tell the most entertaining story imo..its only r'n'r
Good point. And it is a hoot, and well worth getting IMO. :)

I'm sure I have the original 'tragic waste of plastic' quote in an interview somewhere - but as it is in my school hymnbook (circa 1972) http://fountainlife.blogspot.co.uk/2010 ... -book.html
I doubt very much that I can find it :laugh:
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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:55 am

Hunter - well that is always the question, isn't it. But the flip of that is, how do we know that what we already believe to be correct is the true story?

No, that is not "the question". You are kind of missing the point. I said I wouldn't comment on the book further until I've read but your responses need addressing and by the way, you've been asked twice to tell us something positive about the book (especially for those like me who have not read yet) but you still haven't come up with anything. The point you are missing is that mainly and so far, all the criticisms in this thread have been about things that are pretty easily verifiable. It isn't a question of what is or is not the "correct" story. I don't expect to get the "correct story" from anyone, including members of the band, let alone from Dave Thompson, despite any previously respectable reputation.

>When a story comes from somebody who was there at the time, I tend to believe it - or at least, believe that is how they see/remember it. That's why Golf Monster was such a great read. But was it necessarily accurate?

Exactly, which is kind of what SickThings wrote in his post, but that isn't what triggered off some of these posts. It's a question of silly errors which are incorrect in terms of the facts.

>Maybe he slipped up by not adding something to the effect of "a description that apocryphally was also applied to Pretties For Ypu,

Exactly, but that isn't what he did. In omitting to do that, he missed a big opportuntity to explain how badly received that album was from a noted critic of the time - it makes NO sense to refer to it in relation to Brutal Planet even if Alice already did.

>and would later be appended to Easy Action too: -

Really? What is your source for this?

>but my point is, which quote is the most accurate?

Based on the balance of probablity, what do you think?

>And if you were looking for a succinct Alice quote that captured the early critical response to Brutal Planet, should that one be discarded because it was recycled?

Yes - that's exactly what I'm saying. It has more impact in relation to an album that was poorly received as opposed to one that was almost overwhemingly positively received. Do you not see the difference

>In other words, where does accuracy end and nit-picking begin?

One could ask the same question in relation to the other factual errors that others have commented on.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:04 pm

[quote="A_MichaelUK"]
>and would later be appended to Easy Action too: -

Really? What is your source for this?

The Russell Hall interview in 2000 http://www.alicecooperechive.com/articl ... art=000519

"After a record critic wrote that Easy Action was a tragic waste of plastic, I decided I couldn't care less what any ****' critic said anyways. People think that's a big deal, but my thinking was always, "**** the critics."

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:05 pm

cherrypie wrote: I'm sure I have the original 'tragic waste of plastic' quote in an interview somewhere - but as it is in my school hymnbook (circa 1972) http://fountainlife.blogspot.co.uk/2010 ... -book.html
I doubt very much that I can find it :laugh:
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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:08 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote: you've been asked twice to tell us something positive about the book (especially for those like me who have not read yet) but you still haven't come up with anything.
Scroll back - I made a whole list of things!

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:19 pm

>The Russell Hall interview in 2000 http://www.alicecooperechive.com/articl ... art=000519

But given that he has always referred to "Pretties For You" in relation to this, how do you know that's what he meant and not "Easy Action"? How do you know he didn't say "Pretties For You", but that the journalist added "Easy Action" by mistake. You are also ignoring the pretty decent proof that NotSoPerfect provided. Any more of this and you might be asked if you are actually Dave Thompson as well.
Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:28 pm

>I made a whole list of things!

That isn't really what I asked for. You suggested starting "a new thread about the book's good points" so let's see you do that, by which I mean with some details for those of us who haven't read it yet (hence my request), rather than just listing what they are.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:53 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>The Russell Hall interview in 2000 http://www.alicecooperechive.com/articl ... art=000519

But given that he has always referred to "Pretties For You" in relation to this, how do you know that's what he meant and not "Easy Action"? How do you know he didn't say "Pretties For You", but that the journalist added "Easy Action" by mistake. You are also ignoring the pretty decent proof that NotSoPerfect provided.
I didn't ignore it, I just pointed out that the same quote has now been applied to three different albums, and that - as you said - we cannot always be sure which one was the mistake, without seeing the actual review or some other primary source. The earliest appearance we have found so far, in the Bo Diddley book, was not ascribed to anybody, or placed into context... without that, how do we know that <i>that</i> author did not make a mistake, and Neal was right?

Right now, we are taking as gospel an unattributed quote from a book that wasn't even about Alice. It may have been correct but it may not.
A_MichaelUK wrote:>Any more of this and you might be asked if you are actually Dave Thompson as well.
If I was, I think I'd have more pressing things to do in this forum than quibble about the original source of a quote - and arguing about the merits of a book with somebody who hasn't even read it! :)

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:20 pm

>I didn't ignore it, I just pointed out that the same quote has now been applied to three different albums,

Actually you kind of glossed over her source.

> was not ascribed to anybody, or placed into context... without that, how do we know that <i>that</i> author did not make a mistake, and Neal was right?

But he said it was "Pretties For You" as well, did he not? You also still seem to be missing the point that a far more deft writer would have noted that contradiction and since it exists, would be more meaningful to apply it to "Pretties For You" as has always been the case. I REALLY hope this book doesn't just consist of interviews that were left over from "Goldmine" in 2001 or information that is easily available on the internet because, being something of a snob, I would find it pretty worthless.

>Right now, we are taking as gospel an unattributed quote from a book that wasn't even about Alice. It may have been correct but it may not.

Yet you think it's reasonable to not to challenge Alice's quote about "Brutal Planet" which might also "have been correct but it may not" have also.

>If I was, I think I'd have more pressing things to do in this forum than quibble about the original source of a quote

How would you know unless you were the gentleman under discussion? Obviously I'm more than happy to accept your denial, but you had better be telling the truth because the truth does tend to reveal itself in situations likes this.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by The Professor » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:53 pm

okay, let's just agree to disagree. Maybe naively, I am going to accept that the author of the BP-era interview did quote Alice correctly, and Alice did say those words. In the same way, and maybe just as naively, I am going to assume that Thompson accurately quoted all the people he talked to for his book.

It is possible that every single one of them, at some point, used an expression, description or phrase that someone else had already used for another record or event. I don't know, but maybe some day someone will put together an Alice encyclopedia that will find the original source of absolutely every word he has ever uttered... okay, you see where I'm going? It's meaningless. For whatever reason, Thompson used the quote he used and whether anyone likes it or not does not really matter.

Maybe a more deft writer would have cross referenced the quote. Maybe not. I'm sure Alice is not the first person to appropriate a line from an old review and assign it to another, and I doubt Thompson is the first person to then use that quote in a book.

But I do wonder whether it really matters?

Oh, and thank you for "accepting my denial" - I am truly flattered.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:22 pm

> For whatever reason, Thompson used the quote he used and whether anyone likes it or not does not really matter.

Who says? If that was the case, this board wouldn't exist. It isn't a huge issue, but what made it into one was your attempt to justify it.

>I'm sure Alice is not the first person to appropriate a line from an old review and assign it to another, and I doubt Thompson is the first person to then use that quote in a book.

Does that mean it shouldn't be commented on?

>But I do wonder whether it really matters?

If that's what you think, stop posting here then or commenting on other people's comments.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by Si » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:50 pm

A few more errors I happened to write down.

Lydon auditioned singing 'Schools Out' to get Pistols job [It was Eighteen]

Alice sings 'I'm Flash' and 'Trapped' on Zorg women album [It was I'm Flash and Space Pirates]

2 shows at the rainbow in 1971, the first OPENING for The Who the day before the band headline the same venue [Since when??]

Mentions how 'Public Enemy #9' shows how the Spiders were progessing [even though it isn`t them]

Refers to the Billion Dollar Babies demos, notes they aren`t real demos but just the Quad album, then talks about how they show the genesis of the songs.

Zappa audition at 7PM. not in the morning

Tells Chicken story without mentioning it was set up and done at other shows.

Discribes the American Music awards shows but neglects to mention it was Sheryl he pulls from the audience.[I know, not a mistake, but would have made the story more interesting]

Quotes Alice about (No More) Love At Your Convience, but the quote is actually talking about Disco Boodbath Boogie Fever and makes no real sense.

MOL was an abject failure in pretty much every way, but Battle Axe
is a rock masterpiece...

Oh, and FTI is a poor album as well with little going for it...

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by kevinuk81 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:53 pm

Si wrote:Oh, and FTI is a poor album as well with little going for it...
Is that personal opinion Si?
Anything I say or write is my own personal opinion, no matter who agrees or disagrees with me.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by Si » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:03 pm

Not according to Thompson. It's fact, or at least stated as such.

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Re: New book: Welcome to My Nightmare

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:35 pm

I find it hard to imagine anyone short of the author himself, a family member of the author, or the publisher going to the lengths The Professor has to defend this book.
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