Who do you believe?

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Gorehound, SickThings, Devon, Si, Shoesalesman

Mr.Bluelegs
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:35 am

Who do you believe?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:41 am

Alice still claims that one of the major reasons the original band split was because of his desire to take the theatrics to a higher level with resistance from the band. The band claims this to be false as they wanted to do the same (and state proof with the Battleaxe tour). Never knew who to believe- What do you guys think?

User avatar
scotty
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:50 am
Location: US,ohio
Contact:

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by scotty » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:50 am

the battleaxe tour happened a few years down the road though,when their star was dimming (the fact they used 'billion dollar babies' as name recognition is very telling). The recurring statement lately seems (and both sides seem to agree) that there was just a drifting apart of both sides. I guess personally I'm just happy they remained friends,play together sometimes these days,and,oh by the way MADE THE HALL OF FAME!

User avatar
Inmate
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 9:42 pm
Location: Talala, OK

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Inmate » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:01 am

I do believe that they split up because the band didn't want to do theatrics and Alice wanted to do MORE theatrics
"I'm just another case..."

User avatar
sickthing
Humanary Stew
Humanary Stew
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:29 am
Location: Malta

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by sickthing » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:37 am

I tend to believe Dennis Dunaway's version on this one

James1981
Fashion Flusher
Fashion Flusher
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by James1981 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:52 am

Oh no not this again. How many hundreds of pages are on this forum discussing this again and again. There will never be a definitive answer. It's a bit like when me and the wife got divorced. We both have enteirely different versions of what happened but from both our point of views we will both always be right.
Boomshanka

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:46 am

>Oh no not this again.

I agree.

> How many hundreds of pages are on this forum discussing this again and again. There will never be a definitive answer.

Exactly.

User avatar
suziginajackson
Killer
Killer
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: England

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by suziginajackson » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:07 pm

James1981 wrote:It's a bit like when me and the wife got divorced. We both have entirely different versions of what happened but from both our point of views we will both always be right.
In ALL arguments, there will always three truths:

1 - Their truth
2 - Your truth
3 - The middle ground, and ACTUAL truth
People try to put us down
Just because we get around

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:20 pm

>3 - The middle ground, and ACTUAL truth

Exactly.

User avatar
tuneylune
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 6890
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:51 pm
Location: Brutal Planet

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by tuneylune » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:41 pm

Whether or not it may have been posted before, it's worth going over again for different viewpoints and newbies who want to add their two cents (Also, if you are not interested, just click out. I like all of you, but some of your posts have not rocked my socks, so I moved on to something else-it's nothing personal).
This is Monday Morning Quarterbacking after all these years, but I think they were all seriously burned out and needed a break. They probably should have taken the rest of 1973 to rest, have Glen get his health and chops back (or give him an ultimatum to improve or be replaced by Mick Mashbir) and start work on MUSCLE OF LOVE early in the new year. Also so much attention was on Alice that the rest of the guys may have wanted to tone down a little just to get some notice for their good musicianship).
After all this time, I tend to go with what Dennis has said. But, it happened and there always will be differing opinions (Mike seems to be mad at Alice still in one article, then buddy-buddy with him the next) by the remaining members. At least, as Scotty pointed out, they have remained on pretty good terms,have played together quite a bit lately and Alice Cooper made the Rock Hall of Fame as a BAND, as it should be.
At least, we still have the MUSIC!
"I need everything the world owes me..."

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:05 pm

>Whether or not it may have been posted before, it's worth going over again for different viewpoints and newbies who want to add their two cents

The advice from James1981 is still worth heeding, especially for "newbies" who hopefully are taking advantage of the wealth of information (and opinion) stored on this site rather than reguritating the same old stuff.

GNDM

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by GNDM » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:47 pm

Actually, I DO have the one final and correct answer to this long discussed question. If you are interested in hearing the definitive answer....please send $18 (11.6 GBP) to the following address:

P. Bear
Hundred Acre Woods
Hartfield, East Sussex England

Greenie
Killer
Killer
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:55 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Greenie » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:02 pm

suziginajackson wrote:
James1981 wrote:It's a bit like when me and the wife got divorced. We both have entirely different versions of what happened but from both our point of views we will both always be right.
In ALL arguments, there will always three truths:

1 - Their truth
2 - Your truth
3 - The middle ground, and ACTUAL truth

4 - TRUE LIES
Today, the pond... Tomorrow, the woooorld!

Mr.Bluelegs
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:35 am

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Mr.Bluelegs » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Thanks Tuneylune for supporting the right to discuss Alice. "Just click out" is great advice. Seems some people think they own this site and what should be discussed.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:11 pm

>Seems some people think they own this site and what should be discussed.

In that case, do provide us with some insights that have not already been provided.

User avatar
recoop
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: York, England

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by recoop » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:05 am

I like the analogy James 1981 gave re divorce-but glad James you didnt give the two sides otherwise we may have been analysing which of you was right in the divorce..or which wanted more theatrics.. I have to confess that although I have read the different views many times I cannot even recall DD's version..I would be surprised if any of the band including AC have a clear recall. All bands carry an amount of tension and when it gets too much...the band splits.
You are an individual, just like everybody else.

Toronto Bob
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Toronto Bob » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:49 am

I think there's bits of truth to what AC said but I believe he didn't give full disclosure. My theory is that he and Shep wanted full control over the AC business and it just wasn't possible with the original guys hanging around, a new paradigm had to be created.

I used to think that if WTMN wasn't such a success AC would have come back to the band and they would of carried on, but I don't think so now. Sometime between B$B and MoL, I bet him and Shep were already plotting to sail alone. I'm still hoping for some sort of real confessional book from Alice were he drops ALL pretense and comes clean with the audience and more importantly, himself. Now that is a book I would buy - twice!

C'mon Alice - confession's good for the soul

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:39 pm

>My theory is that he and Shep wanted full control over the AC business

I know you like perpetuating the idea that there was a conspiracy but as calculating as they were back then (as indeed the whole band were), I don't think they were that calculating or even clever enough to think of doing that. I think what you describe did happen but only after the period you refer to. It was all part of a gradual process and with hindsight, I think the band would still have ended. I agree that if Alice's solo album had failed, he would have gone back to the band but I think the situation concerning Glen meant the band would have probably ended sooner than you think. As much of an alcoholic as Alice was, he still felt enough loyalty to Glen that he felt that if Glen wasn't functioning, then the band couldn't continue to exist in the way that it had and it's interesting that Alice never gets any credit for that. Instead, some people like to use him as an easy target (and none of this should be new to anyone who has read any previous posts on this subject here or read between the lines of the interviews that all the band members have given). From my perspective, I think Glen's situation was a bigger factor than some people realise.

Robbie
Billion Dollar Baby
Billion Dollar Baby
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:44 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by Robbie » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm

Does anyone seriously think that it was as simplistic as the top of the thread implies? To reduce it to an absurd level it suggests Alice had a meeting with the other band members and said "Hey guys I think we should do bigger theatrics" The other four band members reply in unison. "No that's not what we want to do". Alice then says "In that case let's break up the band I am leaving". The other four band members reply in unison "Ok let's break up".
In my opinion in this case "the only reality is perception" and there would be five different perceptions of why they broke up but I don't think it is anything like as simplistic as suggested at the top of the thread. There is always tensions in any band and I would be amazed if there were not a lot of conversations that took place at that time and after Alice went solo between him and the rest of the band and between the other four without Alice there. For whatever reason the differences simply couldn't be resolved to everyone's satisfaction and consequently they didn't get back together. No mystery, no conspiracy and certainly no elusive definitive "truth"!

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm

>For whatever reason the differences simply couldn't be resolved to everyone's satisfaction and consequently they didn't get back together. No mystery, no conspiracy and certainly no elusive definitive "truth"!

Exactly. This is an excellent post.

User avatar
tim10cc
Killer
Killer
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri... USA
Contact:

Re: Who do you believe?

Post by tim10cc » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:57 pm

My 2 cents...it takes 2 to tango Us vs them kind of thing.

I do like to read others opinions and this is the first time I have browsed a post of this topic.

I had made post in the past that people claimed I repeated. I even got some not so nice private messages regarding it. So I went away for a while.

I like it here and would like to stick around :) I browse most of the recent post. I don't browse much further than that.

Anyways its good to be back...Tim
The road to hell is littered with nice guys with good intentions.

Post Reply