Dick Wagner / Steve Hunter have falling out

[Miller]

This was over who played on Peter Gabriel's first solo album.
A sad state of affairs.

A facebook message from Dick...


"Dick Wagner
THE END OF AN ERA...letter to Hunter post facebook bs::

Steve...It makes me sad that our friendship has become non existent. you've even removed me from your facebook friends list. I did not appreciate hearing that I did not play on Gabriel's album, and on MY site. The album credits dispell that notion very clearly. It all devolved downward to a very petty all out hate fest, and I for one am sorry that all OUR guitar playing, legendary stuff, more influential than Clapton and Allman on their sloppy ass ending of Layla, has come to be ended and just a ghost of memory. I truly did everything in my power to win you over to the perpetuation of the legend by forming the band and taking advantage of the legend by playing live. Attacking me, your biggest frigging supporter for years, stabbed me directly in the heart. I BELIEVED in the Hunter/Wagner legend just like so many fans. I get it now...you dont like me, Karen either, in spite of my attempts to be a close friend all these years. I may be old and wounded, but I can stand beside you, behind you or on a ledge above you and stay with you note for note anytime, anywhere. Never think I cant. You never liked me from the begining. I see that now and the knowledge is underwhelming, but the loss of "Hunter/Wagner" as an attraction that could've earned us our own old age pensions, is a sorry loss. Later Dude."

[Si]

It's a great shame when such things are argued out in public. In the time before facebook etc it would have been a private matter between those concerned as it still should be.

[steven_crayn]

So sad to read that letter from Dick Wagner to Steve Hunter.

Any guitarist/fan who knows their stuff knows Wagner played on 2 tracks on Gabriel's debut, the solo on Here Comes The Flood and some of the guitar on Slowburn everything else is Hunter & Fripp. 

I love both Steve & Dick who have both given me the biggest compliments of my life about my playing in emails.

To see them falling out breaks my heart I hope they can patch up their differences.

They are both guitar Gods the greatest guitar partnership the world has seen

Alice, Lou Reed & Peter Gabriel is some CV

[Miller]

You are right Si, how did we survive before facebook?

Dick has removed the post now.
He obviously had 2nd thoughts about the post being in the public eye.
Maybe it was a knee jerk reaction due to frustration with the situation.
I hope they can work it out.

[Miller]

"Any guitarist/fan who knows their stuff knows Wagner played on 2 tracks on Gabriel's debut, the solo on Here Comes The Flood and some of the guitar on Slowburn everything else is Hunter & Fripp." 



I don't understand it Steven, it clearly says in the liner notes that Wagner played on Flood and Slowburn.

[steven_crayn]

musicians memories fade Miller and as Si says its best left private now

[Si]

And sleeve notes are not always 100% accurate, to say the least! (Not that I know if these ones are or not).

[dadascot]

God what a sad state of affairs. It broke my heart when Dick wrote that he could now see that steve had never been his friend. Two people who had shared so much through-out their adult lives, they must have so many incredible shared memories to sink to this bitterness. I just hope that they can somehow get this sorted out.

[Greenie]

Who knew rockers could be so sensitive?

[steven_crayn]

And sleeve notes are not always 100% accurate, to say the least! (Not that I know if these ones are or not).

I don't think they would have got something so major as Dick Wagner's solo on 'Here Comes The Flood' wrong.

They both played on Slowburn and as someone who has studied both their playing styles I would say it is correct.

That album the best released for me in that year (and one of the best of all time) features some of the finest guitar playing ever recorded on vinyl.

Steve's solo on Waiting For The Big One is sensational as is Dick's on Here Comes The Flood and the way they combine on Slowburn is awesome, just like it was with Alice & Lou Reed.

These musical giants pushed each other to new heights and their styles are similar as they have learnt of each other.

Next time anyone listens to the Intro on Lou Reed's Rock n Roll Animal on the original vinyl Steve is on the right side and Dick is on the left which is how they were onstage.

On the Aerosmith Train Kept A Rollin Steve is playing the solos on the "studio" version and Dick is playing the solos on the "live" version.

This will give the listener a guide to how they sound on other songs they played on.

Guitar greats

[dadascot]

And sleeve notes are not always 100% accurate, to say the least! (Not that I know if these ones are or not).

I don't think they would have got something so major as Dick Wagner's solo on 'Here Comes The Flood' wrong.

They both played on Slowburn and as someone who has studied both their playing styles I would say it is correct.

That album the best released for me in that year (and one of the best of all time) features some of the finest guitar playing ever recorded on vinyl.

Steve's solo on Waiting For The Big One is sensational as is Dick's on Here Comes The Flood and the way they combine on Slowburn is awesome, just like it was with Alice & Lou Reed.

These musical giants pushed each other to new heights and their styles are similar as they have learnt of each other.

Next time anyone listens to the Intro on Lou Reed's Rock n Roll Animal on the original vinyl Steve is on the right side and Dick is on the left which is how they were onstage.

On the Aerosmith Train Kept A Rollin Steve is playing the solos on the "studio" version and Dick is playing the solos on the "live" version.

This will give the listener a guide to how they sound on other songs they played on.

Guitar greats

WOW steve just got to say, mate, you know your stuff.

[recoop]

Very sad to read about this-I am not a member of Facebook, so not sure what Steve has said. Facebook does seem to crop up in everyday people's lives in terms of problems/disputes-postings and pictures etc.

I hope something has been lost in translation between the two and these two guitar greats can be friends again-its possible so I'm hoping. I am very surpised re this as I emailed Steve Hunter a couple of years ago about who played what on some Alice stuff..he quickly wrote back, said what he believed he had played on and was careful to say that there was a couple of ones he wasnt 100% sure on- I thought what a gent- so surprised and hope they refind friendship. Info from Steven re guitar stuff useful to me as always.

[Deaconess]

As much as Steve did not want to re kindle this subject, it is important that some things are clarified due to growing confusion.
He has never said that Dick did not play on that album; he of course knows that Dick played the solo on ‘Here Comes The Flood’ as he remembers Dick needed to borrow his Tele to do it. Dick did not have a guitar with him as he was initially there to do backing vocals; Steve was there when he did that solo.

Dick initially posted that he had analyzed (his) solos on both Here Comes The Flood and Slowburn, then later that day on the same thread he revised his recollection, saying that Bob had asked him to do the solo at the end of Slowburn after Steve had gone and that Bob had intended to put a comp together of both players over the end.
BUT Steve remember ‘s clearly playing the solo on ‘Slowburn’ indeed he had to rehearse it for the tour just four weeks after the recording. He did not notice learning anything different from the one he recorded.
Steve does not believe that comp happened, which was a regular occurrence back then, ideas were tried and did not work.

Unfortunately the credits did not reflect that, an honest mistake.
To Steve’s ears the end solo on ‘Slowburn’ is not two different players, it is one player in one style with one tone and that is Steve. Others can decide if the solo on Here Comes The Flood and the solo on Slowburn is the same player.

Regarding some of the other issues on Dick’s statement, there is definitely not and has never been a hate fest. Steve made a comment on Dicks FB via Karen about the Slowburn solo, his comment was polite and to the point. Steve has always had huge respect for both Dick and the history they share.

Steve has NEVER regarded himself as a legend, he is a guitar player.
He does not want to tour, period. He wants to record his album and his eyes are now a major problem onstage. Dick knows all this.

That PG album was recorded 35 years ago, Steve no longer plays like he did then and does not want to live in the past but his body of work is precious to him and he will defend it. He has spent his whole life developing and trying to improve his playing.

Dick has been credited for playing the solo on Slowburn and Steve is sorry for ever saying anything. There was never any disrespect intended, it was just how he remembered the session and the tour.

Typed for Steve by Karen

[mestreech]

Very sad to hear all that.
I still remember BOTH as the worlds best ever guitar players who made some incredible music.
I'm glad I saw them both with Alice on stage and that's the way I want to remember them.

[Devon]

This reminds me of that time

[RemarkablyInsincere]

It's a great shame when such things are argued out in public. In the time before facebook etc it would have been a private matter between those concerned as it still should be.

Perhaps, or Wagner could have ripped him in a magazine interview.

[Railwayman]

What a shame, these 2 guys are my heroes. Rock 'n' Roll Animal is one of my favourite lp's and the work on WTMN live was just sensational.

[steven_crayn]

As much as Steve did not want to re kindle this subject, it is important that some things are clarified due to growing confusion.
He has never said that Dick did not play on that album; he of course knows that Dick played the solo on ‘Here Comes The Flood’ as he remembers Dick needed to borrow his Tele to do it. Dick did not have a guitar with him as he was initially there to do backing vocals; Steve was there when he did that solo.
 
Dick initially posted that he had analyzed (his) solos on both Here Comes The Flood and Slowburn, then later that day on the same thread he revised his recollection, saying that Bob had asked him to do the solo at the end of Slowburn after Steve had gone and that Bob had intended to put a comp together of both players over the end.
BUT Steve remember ‘s clearly playing the solo on ‘Slowburn’ indeed he had to rehearse it for the tour just four weeks after the recording. He did not notice learning anything different from the one he recorded.
Steve does not believe that comp happened, which was a regular occurrence back then, ideas were tried and did not work.
 
Unfortunately the credits did not reflect that, an honest mistake.
To Steve’s ears the end solo on ‘Slowburn’ is not two different players, it is one player in one style with one tone and that is Steve. Others can decide if the solo on Here Comes The Flood and the solo on Slowburn is the same player.
 
Regarding some of the other issues on Dick’s statement, there is definitely not and has never been a hate fest. Steve made a comment on Dicks FB via Karen about the Slowburn solo, his comment was polite and to the point. Steve has always had huge respect for both Dick and the history they share.

Steve has NEVER regarded himself as a legend, he is a guitar player.
He does not want to tour, period. He wants to record his album and his eyes are now a major problem onstage. Dick knows all this.

That PG album was recorded 35 years ago, Steve no longer plays like he did then and does not want to live in the past but his body of work is precious to him and he will defend it. He has spent his whole life developing and trying to improve his playing.
 
Dick has been credited for playing the solo on Slowburn and Steve is sorry for ever saying anything. There was never any disrespect intended, it was just how he remembered the session and the tour.

Typed for Steve by Karen

Thankyou Karen for clarification on this, there was never any doubt that Steve was the main lead guitarist on Gabriel's awesome debut. Dick is credited as playing the guitar solo on Here Comes the flood and guitar on Slowburn but not at the expense of Steve on Slowburn. Even Steve when he confirmed to me what I heard on BDB that he played the solo's on Hello Hooray, second 8 bar solo on Raped & Freezin, second 4 bar solo and end solo on BDB and solos on Generation Landslide (described by Bob Ezrin in Rolling Stone as putting him inside the door of his rock n roll hall of fame) and Sickthings, wasn't sure when i asked who played on King of the Silver Screen but thinks it was Dick, emphasizing how much these guitar greats have learnt of each other as that sounds like Steve on his solo spot on Madhouse Rock.

Steve has every right to defend his legacy and is a modest man and I know how much he respects Dick as he told me so at Night of the Guitars in 1980s in UK.

I'm sure Dick was clearly upset when he said what he did and things have clearly got confused and out of hand.

I love them both as a musician they inspire me everyday and I'm sure they inspired each other.

If you are reading this Dick & Steve we love you and I hope you can put this Storm In A Teacup behind you.

By the way everyone if you havent done it you should check out Steve's version of Marvin Gaye's 'Whats Going On' and Dick's Jerusalem to see why Alice,Lou & Peter hired them in the first place, class is permanent!

What's Going On

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R0BWGfI ... ata_player

Jerusalem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGzq9zZ ... ata_player

[tuneylune]

Too bad about this and hope they patch this up-sounds more like a misunderstanding than anything else. Also, we know Dick's health has not been good the last couple of years and maybe he is more sensitive to what he heard or thought he may have heard. They were a great combo, very simpatico to one another and some good albums as well.

[Miller]

I'm happy to say it's been resolved...



Steve Hunter
All I said was I did not think you played the ending solo that appears on the album. That's it...never anything personal. That's the solo I remember doing and re-learning when I did Peter's tour. I believe you DID record a solo at the end. I also believe Bob intended to do a trade off thing between us. All I was saying is that, for whatever reason, he canned the idea and went with my solo. And when doing the credits he remembered distinctly you coming in and doing a solo. But it wasn't the one ultimately used. I don't know why it worked out the way it did. But if you listen to that solo and listen to bootlegs of live gigs I did with Peter, it sounds like me. I think it was an honest mistake and I am really sorry I ever said anything about it. There was never any intent to personally attack you in any way. Nothing to do with respect, hate or any of the things you mentioned. I'm through with it. Are you? Let me know...Steve

Dick Wagner
I am more than through with it. I want to completely restore the connection between us...In spite of my words, I care about you Steve, always have...and for Karen as well. I am sorry this ever went down, but I am happy to hear from you. As for the solo...the credit might be a mistake and the entire solo might be you, but I was asked and did perform a solo on Slow Burn, even if it was not used. I know at one point, Bob was gonna do a split and the CD credits seems to reflect that, but in retrospect, all this bad blood is not worth creating over one lousy solo on one CD recording. I apologize for over reacting and hope you feel enough for me to think of us as who we were and who the mobs of fans want to idolize. Its not a close, buddy buddy friendship, but it is an important one to me, and to many many people. I truly hope you see the importance as well. Love and thankfulness to you and Karen from me and from Sandy...Dick