Maybe no W2MN??

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Sarah » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:18 pm

Well, whatever happens I really hope there will be more songs from W2MN included in the setlist at least. But one way or the other, any opportunity to see Alice is exciting for me.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by tim10cc » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:52 am

Steve Hunter gone...W2MN tour in limbo?


Hunter enjoyed what he contributed to W2mN. I am sure he really wanted to get the chance to play tracks of Alice's latest album live..In my opinion I am not surprised he stepped down.

Why isn't W2MN tour happening NOW?? Why didn't it happen when it was released? What happen to the days when the artist would tour behind the banner of the current album.

Just my opinion.

Flawless album (W2MN) prob not even charting anymore, and lots of effort put behind it ,, There was talk of a tour that was going to happen in 2012...HUGE Alice Fans got all got buttered up. So let me get this right..a LEGEND that was recently inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame is going to open up for Iron Maiden on a 2012 summer tour!! In my opinion things could be managed better or there is some politics behind all of this that is stopping a W2MN tour from happening. Sometimes its tough being a Cooper fan!! I remember visualizing an EPIC tour for Last Temptation. That didn't happen either.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Robbie » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:32 am

While I am personally disappointed that a WTMN 2 tour has not been announced yet there are a couple of comments made by Tim that in my opinion are somewhat "wide of the mark".
Tours to support albums are no longer necessary in the way they once were. Although I am no expert I believe bands toured in the past and hoped to break even on the costs of a tour but make money from other revenue streams i.e. increased record sales, merchandise etc. Necessary when venues (orginally theatres or cinemas) held only 2,000 seats.With the growth of large arenas (certainly in the UK)and stadium gigs, the ticket sales allow for the tour itself to make money. Hence the plethora of stars who make comeback, anniversary tours etc.with no records to promote.
Secondly I don't think it's about mismanagement or some "politics" whatever that means, more about "the devil in the detail". I assume that when Alice is thinking about what he would like to do (i.e. a spectacular WTMN2 show he makes references to his intentions in interiews etc.) Then as planning, financial and logistical decisions are scrutinised problems surface that lead to a decision to put the WTMN2 tour on "the back burner" at which point Alice chooses to do "No more Mr Nice Guy 2012" to tread water until a new set of circumstances permits (or does not) a return to the idea of a WTMN2 show at some point in the future. While it my be disappointing it's the real world of 2012 not 1975.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:51 pm

>Tours to support albums are no longer necessary in the way they once were.

Exactly and if he’s been paying attention, I’m a little surprised that tim10cc isn’t aware that this has been discussed endlessly here and quite recently too.

>Secondly I don't think it's about mismanagement or some "politics" whatever that means, more about "the devil in the detail".

The conspiracy theorists will hate you for saying that. The rest of your excellent post is full of logic and reason and confirms some of the concepts I’ve been trying to get some people here to understand.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Darren » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:16 pm

[quote="] I remember visualizing an EPIC tour for Last Temptation. That didn't happen either.[/quote]

I remember reading about that in Metal Edge Magazine back in the day. I believe Alice was departing from the "Epic" record company label at that time. A business decision. Sometimes these things happen beyond anyone's control.

There was a bit of a TLT piece in his tours at that time, and he did play 2 or 3 songs from the album. I believe it was sideshow, nothings free and Lost in America. While there was not a ton of theatrics around those 3 songs it was done very well and came across live the same way.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by tim10cc » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:35 pm

I don't jump on these boards much. Yes I agree its not 1975. I just thought when is ALICE going to have a moment like this again? Recently inducted in the hall of fame...part 2 of a great story...2011 was a GREAT YEAR for Alice and Alice Fans.

Forgive me if I am out of a loop.


I do remember a tour later on that put a spotlight on Last Temptation where Sideshow, Nothings free, Lost in America and Cleansed by Fire was performed..I believe it was the Carnival tour.

I think there are some big wigs behind these decisions which as fans we generally don't get to hear about.

I am a solid Cooper fan, age 42 and have bought every album on released date since Constrictor. I get a little bit sensitive when the MASTER , the man who help get the ball rolling in shock rock...it opening up for Iron Maiden.

I wasn't impressed a few years back when Alice & The Scorpions would flip flop on certain nights. On that tour the night I saw Alice, he opened up and it was still daylight outside...didnt quite capture the Alice feel I get from prior Cooper concerts.

I know its not 1975 anymore but Madonna's 2012 tour will be behind the banner of a new album. ZZTOPS summer tour will be behind a banner of a new album. It still happens.
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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Darren » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:38 pm

On that tour the night I saw Alice, he opened up and it was still daylight outside...didnt quite capture the Alice feel I get from prior Cooper concerts.
Cool man! that was the same tour I had seen Alice the first time on. And hell yeah, I remember it being light outside too. I left after Alice.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:23 pm

>Forgive me if I am out of a loop.

You are forgiven.

>it opening up for Iron Maiden.

Again, as has been discussed recently, it isn't quite as straightforward as that. While he isn't closing the show for obvious reasons, you can be pretty sure he's going to be more handsomely remunerated than a regular support act would be. He wouldn't be doing it otherwise, if you think about it.

>I know its not 1975 anymore but Madonna's 2012 tour will be behind the banner of a new album.

How many new songs will actually be performed compared to her classic songs, though? It won't be long until we find out. From what I understand, Van Halen are doing almost nothing from their new recording.

>It still happens.

Of course, but for classic (or if you prefer, older) artists, less often than you might think.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by SickThings » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:49 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From what I understand, Van Halen are doing almost nothing from their new recording.
Last setlist I saw, they were doing four songs from their new album.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by tim10cc » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:51 pm

To be truthful..you are correct. For any artist if their classics aren't performed,,,I see where thats going.

I guess I am too much of a hardcore fan. When I see Alice I prefer to hear the latest stuff or newer material. 18, No more mr niceguy, Schools out...all great tunes ..but I have seen Alice live over 14 times!!

Material that is bought out from the works along with new material keeps me on my feet more than Alice performing 18!!

Thats why I really enjoyed the Brutal Planet tour...he covered many of the songs off the album and managed to keep it interesting to the crowd.
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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:01 am

>Last setlist I saw, they were doing four songs from their new album.

What is the proportion of old and recent material? You can see where I'm going with this. There were only two or three selections from “Dirty Diamonds” on the "Dirty Diamonds Tour" and because of that, people complained when it was called that.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:21 am

>To be truthful..you are correct.

That shouldn't be a surprise.

>For any artist if their classics aren't performed,,,I see where thats going.

Exactly. I also made that point but deleted it for brevity.

>I guess I am too much of a hardcore fan.

I think most of us here are but here's where the problem lies and this is the thing that most people here for some reason don't seem to understand or want to understand which is that given the size of Alice's audience, not everyone who goes to see him is "a hardcore fan" which means the people who are not, have to be catered to as well.

>I see Alice I prefer to hear the latest stuff or newer material.

We all do, but believe it or not, the vast majority probably do not. I agree that doesn't mean there isn't more scope to perform something that's a bit more fresh (and Alice does occasionally pull something out of the hat) but the reality is that it isn't as straightforward as that, especially if it is a theatrical show which people keep going ON AND ON about how that's what they want to see, because not all songs work as well on - stage as they do on record and not all songs work together as a sequence of songs. Remember, this is Alice Cooper we're talking about here, not The Dave Matthews Band or something.

>Material that is bought out from the works along with new material keeps me on my feet more than Alice performing 18!!

That is good to hear but unfortunately for a lot of other people, that's the moment for them to go to the bathroom or get a drink.

> why I really enjoyed the Brutal Planet tour...he covered many of the songs off the album and managed to keep it interesting to the crowd.

Yes that is probably the last time that happened.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Nick » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:16 pm

I understand some people want a whole new stage show that caters for all the new songs...but I don't get the comment somebody made earlier (apologies as it may have not even been in this thread) that sometimes its hard to be a Cooper fan as we don't quite get what we want.
I think this is the best time to be a Cooper fan. He is going through one of the most prolific periods of his career, both creatively and with his insane touring schedule. Traditionally, he rarerly visited my country (Australia), in fact a grand total of 3 times throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's, but since 2005 he is here pretty much every year or two...at one point twice in a matter of 8 months! I can live with thatever show he brings here, no such thing as a dud Alice Cooper gig.
Now if he rarely toured, only toured limited markets, took 14 years between new albums like van halen...wouldn't that be a hell of a lot worse?? I think as fans we have it pretty damn good considering this cat is 64 years old. Enjoy the ride people, it wont last forever.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Swinger » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:42 pm

I would like to point out that Madonna is usually fairly good with including songs from the album the tour is supporting. Last tour she played nine out of twelve songs on a regular night and only three of those were singles.

However I generally think there's a different between pop and rock artists/band when it comes to supporting albums with tours. The difference is airplay. It's probably a lot easier for an artist like P!nk (who I totally love by the way) to preform 8 songs of an album when she's got seven singles from that album that get airplay and have music videos. Rock radio on the other hand have a tendency to play mostly classic songs by the artists even if they have a new album coming out, meaning that the general public haven't heard the new songs and will expect to hear the classics live.

I, like most, would love to see a W2MN tour and I don't think it's impossible for Alice to do it (like already said the brutal planet tour managed to mix old and new nicely) but I can see why if he doesn't do it.
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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:43 pm

>I think as fans we have it pretty damn good considering this cat is 64 years old.

Exactly and I don't think anyone was able to foresee the amount of activity since 1995 when he returned to touring.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Marcelocooper » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:44 pm

Nick wrote:I understand some people want a whole new stage show that caters for all the new songs...but I don't get the comment somebody made earlier (apologies as it may have not even been in this thread) that sometimes its hard to be a Cooper fan as we don't quite get what we want.
I think this is the best time to be a Cooper fan. He is going through one of the most prolific periods of his career, both creatively and with his insane touring schedule. Traditionally, he rarerly visited my country (Australia), in fact a grand total of 3 times throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's, but since 2005 he is here pretty much every year or two...at one point twice in a matter of 8 months! I can live with thatever show he brings here, no such thing as a dud Alice Cooper gig.
Now if he rarely toured, only toured limited markets, took 14 years between new albums like van halen...wouldn't that be a hell of a lot worse?? I think as fans we have it pretty damn good considering this cat is 64 years old. Enjoy the ride people, it wont last forever.
Completly agree. I´ve only had the chance to see 3 shows. And tha´s because I went to the same show on the same tour on different cities. But still he is comming more offten then he ever did (1974, 1995, 2001, 2007 and 2011).
He is touring on some places he has naver been ou never have been so frequently. Some of us are hardcore fans that NEED to hear 18 ou NNMG or WTMN for the first time.
He aways surprises me with some rarely played live song. I heard Public Animal #9, Hey Stoopid, Brutal Planet, Long Way to Go, just to name a few, that I imagined I would NEVER see live. The theather of death had an AMAZING set. He is aways playing at list one new song as well. That may not be a lot, but we can´t say we got nothing and it´s hard to be a Cooper fan. I´m pretty much satisfied with what I got.

About Maiden tour, am I the only one who thinks it´s not humiliation? Come on, those guys are HUGE! I think touring with them is good for Alice. Bigger crowds, Alice can make lots of fans from this. He´s got the good music and the good show, he can get people to like his music at a Maiden Concert. Whatever is good enough for him, is good enough for me.
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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:18 pm

>I would like to point out that Madonna is usually fairly good with including songs from the album the tour is supporting.

What kind of reaction would you say the new material gets compared to the older material?

> when she's got seven singles from that album that get airplay and have music videos.

Yes, that's very true.

> Rock radio on the other hand have a tendency to play mostly classic songs by the artists even if they have a new album coming out,

That is also true, but, those “classic songs” are (in their own way) as well - known as the current hits of the day are. It is the audiences that are different and their expectations that are different.

>I, like most, would love to see a W2MN tour

It would be good to know what people mean by that, since people keep throwing that title around (which is natural). What would constitute that? Is there a minimum amount of new material that must be performed before that title can be an accurate description? Obviously, those are rhetorical questions.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:21 pm

>Some of us are hardcore fans that NEED to hear 18 ou NNMG or WTMN for the first time.

Exactly and the rest of your post had some great points in it as well.

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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by James1981 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:15 pm

To tie in with the iron maiden thing. When I saw them on tour a coulpe of years ago 90% of their setlist was made up of songs from the last ten years. All the diehards who always complained about them always playing old songs ended up complaining there were no classics in the set list. There's just no pleasing some people. I could never get bored of seeing halo of flies performed live.
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Re: Maybe no W2MN??

Post by Robbie » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:40 pm

"It would be good to know what people mean by that, since people keep throwing that title around (which is natural). " Quote
For me Andy, when I refer to a WTMN show it's not about song choice because I totally accept that there are constraints on Alice's choice of songs that we the "hardcore" fans simpy have to recognise and accept because we are in the minority at gigs. In fact I often look around at gigs and am amazed by the age range and for want of a better word "types" of people who constitute a modern Alice audience. One thing is for sure they would be mightily disappointed if they did not hear the hits / classics.
I would just love to see a WTMN show wth a radical stage set and new theatrics in the way Theatre of Death and Brutal Planet were refreshing.I always think it's magical at an Alice gig when a new theatrical or visual dimension appears that gives a tried and tested song from the setlist a different excitement (am thinking of "Franken Alice" as an example). Having said that picking up on one or two posters above yes we are incredibly lucky that Alice continues to tour at all, so if there isn't a WTMN show so be it. It won't diminish my admiration or enjoyment of his work one iota.

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