"A Big Announcement to Come in a Few Weeks"

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:45 pm

>But most of the audience will be people that have not seen this tour (NMMNG).

Exactly.

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:17 pm

Jumping Jack wrote: If this ends up being double the ticket price 30 rows back for a short, stale set list with 2 guitarists instead of 3 to save money with little investment in this year's staging it might be disappointing.

So all of the sudden, three guitarists is now a requirement and you're already preparing your disappointment if it's only two. Wow.

Anytime Alice performs with another major act on a co-headlining tour it's always something less than the full Alice show we get when he's headlining on his own. This should not be news to you.

It's not my preference, but at least Alice is still doing his own dates outside the tour. If this tour came to my town, I'd definitely catch the show and be happy about it. Since it's not, I'll probably just end up trying to make as many Alice solo shows as I can and enjoy those.

Devon · Post by **Devon** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:43 am

I think some people forget that the touring is one part of the music BUSINESS. In the last decade Iron Maiden have had MULTIPLE gold and platinum albums world wide, multiple #1 albums, and play to large sellout crowds in Amphitheaters, stadiums, etc., worldwide. Alice, unfortunately, does not, even though I do believe he's enjoying sort of an upswing in popularity thanks to social media and his show.

At the risk of sounding like I'm pro-Maiden here (and I really am not a huge fan of the band by any means,) they are a bigger force in music today than Alice is. They actually have been for a while. Do I think they are better? Absolutely not. But it makes little to no sense for Maiden to open up or be given a "special guest slot" before Alice? Headliners in package tours are not booked based on who is "more influential" or "who was a big seller 40 years ago." Otherwise you would see some really godawful lopsided package tours out there. For instance, 35 years ago AC/DC opened up for Alice. Does anywhere here in their right mind think that they should still open for or be given a "special guest slot" before Alice if that situation ever came up again considering how monumental AC/DC is today? Again, it's all BUSINESS and numbers, not sentimentality.

Most of the comments against Alice being given a support slot for Maiden are out of personal bias, not any logical or rational reason.

Next I suppose some of you feel that Metallica should be opening for Alice too.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:02 am

>Most of the comments against Alice being given a support slot for Maiden are out of personal bias, not any logical or rational reason.

Exactly.

Jumping Jack · Post by **Jumping Jack** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:49 am

Ticket prices will probably be higher, but not double.

$117 - More than double December's show.

I don't need 3 guitarists, but would definitely like to see Keri back! For $117 I'd like to see Keri and Damon back, with Eric thrown in as a bonus.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:26 pm

Toronto Bob wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:
Toronto Bob wrote: Oh and to those who think AC is a bigger act than IM
And for those with no grasp of music history Alice Cooper was the biggest act on the planet something Iron Maiden never have or ever will be.

Alice Cooper was a cultural revolution not just a heavy metal subculture and that is not a pop at Maiden as I do like some of their stuff, always really good guitar work and have met Janick Gers (top bloke) when he worked with Gillan.
Even Bruce Dickinson (who I've got a lot of time for) will tell you who the biggest act is in terms of history, even if Alice is special guest of Iron Maiden and he will blow them offstage just like he did to a better rock band than Maiden, Deep Purple.
chill out dude. No grasp of rock history? Please. My comment was relating to the here and now (and say the past 20 years) IM is bigger. Yes Alice is more of a seminal influence in rock than Maiden (although no one should sell IM short - they are next to Sabbath in the world of HM) but I was commenting on present day touring.
The original comment said something along the lines that Alice is bigger than Maiden - and that is simply not true - you have facts to refute that, let's see them, otherwise zip it on the trash talk.

I'm more of an Alice fan (pre-Dragontown) than Maiden but facts are facts and Maiden sells more tickets in the major concert markets than Alice and they likely sell more copies of a new release than AC as well, if Alice was bigger than Maiden, Maiden would be a "Special Guest" on Alice's tour - but that's not the case is it?

And in regards to your claim of Alice once being the "biggest act on the planet". That's a nice line that sounds good and is almost true but at Alice's peak, say last half of 1973, Zeppelin were a bigger act and they sustained that popularity throughout the decade, whereas Alice's reign was over and done by the time 1976 rolled around - he didn't even sell out MSG in '77. So what kind of music history are you gonna school me on exactly?

Alice was the biggest act on the planet 72/73 who is talking about 76 or now? NOT ME!

Even now Iron Maiden though a massive metal band are not the biggest act on the planet and never will be. Alice Cooper was for a period of time in 72/73.

FACT School's Out biggest selling single in Warner Bros history at the time
FACT Billion Dollar Babies US tour broke Rolling Stones box office record and the album topped both sides of the Atlantic.
FACT even as late as 74 biggest indoor attendance for a gig when Alice Cooper played Brazil.

so you get your FACTS right and dont tell me to "zip it" as I wasn't talking trash unlike you as you often do, be it the last Alice masterpiece or the Old School box set.

I haven't got a problem with Iron Maiden and Alice Cooper being their special guest but you and other metal heads need to get a historical perspective about who is the bigger all time act and it is Alice Cooper

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:45 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>It's a lot easier to have a #1 album in these days of records selling in poor numbers compared to the golden age of the 1960/70's and less competition.

It's not just "these days" though. For a band that stinks, they have had huge success throughout most of their career. The same applies as to the question of who sells more concert tickets and merchandise.

like I've just said I haven't got a problem with Alice being special guest of Iron Maiden they have been very successful for a number of years and I don't think they stink I like some of their stuff and it makes economic sense for Alice to expose his music to a bigger audience, but anyone who thinks Maiden are a bigger act in the history of rock music is seriously deluded it's like Man City fans thinking they are bigger than Man Utd and I support neither as you know and I'm sure you know how big Alice Cooper was in 72/73 as like me you remember it.

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:23 pm

Steven, to be fair to Toronto Bob, he did state that he was talking about 'here and now'. If we're being totally truthful, Iron Maiden are the bigger act right now, especially in terms of 'Heavy Metal' (which i have never really classed Alice as being a part of).

I'd also go as far as saying that in terms of their commerciality, Iron Maiden probably are in the Top 5 Heavy Rock bands in the world at the moment - next to the likes of Metallica, AC-DC etc. Alice doesn't really come close, even though I personally prefer him.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:07 pm

>but anyone who thinks Maiden are a bigger act in the history of rock

I think that for the purposes of this discussion there seems to be some confusion, or difference of opinion, as to what "bigger" means.

There is a post from Devon at the other thread which, following on from my other posts, explains the situation quite well. If "bigger" means who is more popular or who has sold and continues to sell, more concert tickets, albums and merchandise (in other words, the stuff that really matters in the real world), it has to be Iron Maiden but if it means who was the most influential, who caused the bigger shock - waves in music, who was the most notorious or the most recognisably iconic figure or who generated the most column inches outside of the music press, then it would have to be Alice Cooper by any objective assessment. If you showed most members of the public a photograph of Alice and one of any member of Iron Maiden, I think we both know who would be me more recognisable, but promoters don't care about that and neither should they care about it. That is why it's called 'show - business' not 'show - we - will - only - do - whatever - it - is - every- single person - who - ever - posts - on - the - internet - wants - and - lose - money - while - we do - it'.

mestreech · Post by **mestreech** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:24 pm

Devon wrote:

Next I suppose some of you feel that Metallica should be opening for Alice too.

That would be GREAT, haha

Toronto Bob · Post by **Toronto Bob** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:45 pm

steven_crayn wrote: chill out dude. No grasp of rock history? Please. My comment was relating to the here and now (and say the past 20 years) IM is bigger. Yes Alice is more of a seminal influence in rock than Maiden (although no one should sell IM short - they are next to Sabbath in the world of HM) but I was commenting on present day touring.
The original comment said something along the lines that Alice is bigger than Maiden - and that is simply not true - you have facts to refute that, let's see them, otherwise zip it on the trash talk.

I'm more of an Alice fan (pre-Dragontown) than Maiden but facts are facts and Maiden sells more tickets in the major concert markets than Alice and they likely sell more copies of a new release than AC as well, if Alice was bigger than Maiden, Maiden would be a "Special Guest" on Alice's tour - but that's not the case is it?

And in regards to your claim of Alice once being the "biggest act on the planet". That's a nice line that sounds good and is almost true but at Alice's peak, say last half of 1973, Zeppelin were a bigger act and they sustained that popularity throughout the decade, whereas Alice's reign was over and done by the time 1976 rolled around - he didn't even sell out MSG in '77. So what kind of music history are you gonna school me on exactly?

Alice was the biggest act on the planet 72/73 who is talking about 76 or now? NOT ME!

Even now Iron Maiden though a massive metal band are not the biggest act on the planet and never will be. Alice Cooper was for a period of time in 72/73.

FACT School's Out biggest selling single in Warner Bros history at the time
FACT Billion Dollar Babies US tour broke Rolling Stones box office record and the album topped both sides of the Atlantic.
FACT even as late as 74 biggest indoor attendance for a gig when Alice Cooper played Brazil.

so you get your FACTS right and dont tell me to "zip it" as I wasn't talking trash unlike you as you often do, be it the last Alice masterpiece or the Old School box set.

I haven't got a problem with Iron Maiden and Alice Cooper being their special guest but you and other metal heads need to get a historical perspective about who is the bigger all time act and it is Alice Cooper[/quote]

My original comment that you quoted and responded to said

Oh and to those who think AC IS a bigger act than IM. So the word IS means the here and now, not 72/73. And yes, AC is more iconic than IM (again not to sell IM short). As far as AC being the biggest act "on the planet" in 72/73. I would say they were ONE of the biggest acts. Zeppelin were a bigger draw. Oh I know about the Brazil show but

i) Brazil have HUGE concerts and one massive turnout at one show does not emperically prove they were the biggest act on the planet for 72/73(Rod Stewart played to 3.5 milion people in Brazil in 1994 - did that make him the biggest act on the planet n 1994?)

ii) Zeppelin's American tour of 1973 was better attended than Alice's B$B

So while I was referring to the here and now, which makes your claims about me needing to learn rock history silly, you're still not accurate when you say AC was "the biggest act on the planet" in 72/73. He was one of the biggies in a crowded field and he couldn't maintain it due to some rather poor decision making. I'm a fan but I don't like denying the facts.

Mr.Bluelegs · Post by **Mr.Bluelegs** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:40 am

I'm still waiting for the big news. Co-headline with Maiden? Big news? I thought AC was going to play Zipper in its entirety to celebrate its 30th anniversary this year.

suziginajackson · Post by **suziginajackson** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:08 am

Was it the 'Theatre of Death' tour where Alice had Motorhead as a support group?

I don't recall people complaining about that!

wind_up_toy · Post by **wind_up_toy** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:58 am

suziginajackson wrote:Was it the 'Theatre of Death' tour where Alice had Motorhead as a support group?

I don't recall people complaining about that!

Motörhead supported Alice in 2007 on the Physco Drama tour I believe. Joan Jett was also on the bill.

jacknifejohnny · Post by **jacknifejohnny** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Saw Maiden in Tampa last year, not bad, but not a band i'd rush to see again. Think i'll skip this tour and that'll be a first, haven't done that for 38 years. Look foreward to the next one.

killer wolf · Post by **killer wolf** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:59 pm

I was a huge Maiden fan since 84, they've lost me lately though. If this line-up came around i'd probably get a ticket, it would be primarily for Alice though - whether or not i'd stay through Maiden would be decided during the show.

anyhow, for all the debate, it seems to me that only one thing should be considered - if Alice himself is happy to be classed as support/opening, then i don't think any of our arguments hold any weight whatsoever. Alice isn't a past-god that can only get this work. he's up to his eyes in his own stuff and his own tours, and i deduce that if he chooses to be a support/opener aside from prepping his own next tour etc then he has no problems w/ that whatsoever and probably considers it an honour/privilege.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:20 pm

>Alice isn't a past-god that can only get this work. he's up to his eyes in his own stuff and his own tours,

Exactly and even if that was the case, I don't see how that is anyone's business. I love the way some so - called fans show their support.

Toronto Bob · Post by **Toronto Bob** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:03 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Alice isn't a past-god that can only get this work. he's up to his eyes in his own stuff and his own tours,

Exactly and even if that was the case, I don't see how that is anyone's business. I love the way some so - called fans show their support.

I don't know if anyone was suggesting this is th nly kind of work AC can get, I just think some people thought an opening slot on an IM tour wasn't exactly big news. I can understand their disappointment even if I don't share it.

As far as it "Not being their business" what a silly coment that is. Anything AC does in the way of a commercial or artistic venture that a member of the public is interested in is "their business". What's not any business of a member of the public is things of a personal nature. This authoritarian mentality that some people around here have is really amusing (and kind of pathetic)

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:53 pm

>I don't know if anyone was suggesting this is th nly kind of work AC can get,

No, I definitely think there is an under - current of that attitiude that killer wolf picked up on, otherwise there woudn't have been some of those views expressed.

> I just think some people thought an opening slot on an IM tour wasn't exactly big news.

I agree that it is not.

>As far as it "Not being their business" what a silly coment that is. Anything AC does in the way of a commercial or artistic venture that a member of the public is interested in is "their business".

No, I think you're confusing the end - product with the process by which the end - product is arrived at. The end - product in this case is the show and whether the audience has a good time or not. The process (a guest slot with Iron Maiden or his own head - lining tour) is something else entirely. If Alice tours with Iron Maiden, that's his business. People don't have to like it and they're free not to, but it's his business.

> This authoritarian mentality that some people around here have is really amusing (and kind of pathetic)

I didn't realise you were so delicate.

James1981 · Post by **James1981** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:04 pm

The way I see it a tour with maiden is going to expose Alice to thousands of potential new fans and that can only be a good thing for when he does his own tour. Personally I really hope this tour comes to the uk, 2 of my favourate artists together on the same bill.

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