Killer vs. BDB

[Mr.Bluelegs]

Can't wait to hear everyone's opinions & reasoning as to which one is their fav. I'll go first- When listening to Killer, it's my fav & when listening to BDB, that's my fav. They're both epic but I give the nod to BDB because it defines the band's peak as rock icons. BDB was a bit slicker (wouldn't say commercial) but never to the point of "selling out" like some critics claimed. The writing, playing, & production was perfect. If you remember 1973, you know that Alice & band were huge. There may not be anything greater than Halo or Wheels, but overall, I still give it the slight nod. Your turn....

[Steven Lee Cooper]

Yesterday a friend of mine came home for dinner (a big ACG fan) & we listened to the live LP from the Old School box set - he of course just loved it ! And we talked a lot about the ACG's albums, including about BDB.

I love "Killer", which is still, with LITD, the best studio album Alice ever has done, I think : gritty sound and atmosphere, musically theatrical, dirty-sounding yet precisely produced, clever choices of arrangements, great mix showcasing all individuals talents, great lyrics and vocals....and GREAT MELODIES !!!
My views on music are based only on the musical result; so, for me, the fact that BDB (or any other album) was a huge commercial success (and it would be the same thing in case of a commercial failure) isn't something that I especially care for. An artist's bank account is not my business. Now that I know well all of the ACG studio albums, BDB sounds to me the least interesting of them all. I'm not crazy about how the way the guitar solos sound, kind of acid but not really edgy : artificially acid in fact; nor do I especially like the way those solos are played - especially at the end of the title track, the fast playing of the guitar solos verging too much on Heavy Metal for me. The compositions are not urgent nor atmospheric, the melodies are tame and sometimes dull (Raped & freezin' - which has such a weak refrain it's rather embarassing-, Elected, Sick Things) or even childlish (Unfinished Sweet). The production is energetic but sterile, nothing dirty-while-diverse like School's Out was, soundwise. Unlike SO again, there is no attempts at including other musical roots, like Jazz, Psychedelia (Luney Tune, My Stars), Rhythm & Blues (Public Animal n°9 !!), as displayed on SO.... listen to Alma Mater : surf-folk (if I may invent the term )for the verses, and soul for the refrain; all flowing perfectly, with a REAL crunchy production !!! Thus, having instead a parody of a cabaret song (Mary-Ann) for the diversity aspect of BDB leaves me a bit hungry compared to previous albums. When I listen to Sick Things and I Love The Dead, I have the impression I'm listening to a group of comedians (happening to also be good players in terms of music) whose goal was to mock the ACG by making parody songs about them. Like : "yeah, who are we gonna make fun of next.... Oh I know ! - Hey guys, you know, that band, Alice something, they have songs like "Dead Babies" and so on, let's make a parody of them !!" And on with the glossy production, so that a maximum of people can listen to it and enjoy when played on their favorite TV-show....
All the A-side seems to be a collection of 45 rpm A-sides, all of them seeming to have been designed as potential hit-singles, and turning out to be indeed what they were planned for : OK songs, nothing special, and more radio-friendly than ever before, thanks to the removal of the hard edge and previous raw rock feel. Generation Landslide is, by far, the best track, since it's the most "lively" musically and also melodically- thus the most interesting. It seems this track was not so much touched by the icy and stiff production. More tracks of this vein would have done a great deal of good to that album I think.

Lately I've been reading again the thread that was set a while ago by Gunner, called "Did BDB kill the band ?". And I think I understand what he meant then.

Just the other day I listened to three Alice Cooper LPs : Easy Action, Billion Dollar Babies & Muscle Of Love. While I had a great time listening to EA & MOL, it was an akward feeling listening to BDB... just an OK album to me, not among the best AC albums.

[revinkevin]

Killer for sure. Raw, rough and ready. Halo of Flies is a Masterpiece. Dead Babies is classic Alice. Be My Lover, Under My Wheels, Yeah Yeah Yeah and You Drive Me Nervous are just straight up hard rock at it's best.

I like BDB a lot but to me it seems everybody was trying hard to make a hit record and all the rough edges were polished up just a little to go down easier. Still a classic release.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I think KILLER is the perfect Alice Cooper album.

Everything about it is perfect, including the album cover.

BDB is an incredible album in it's own right... and has some of my very favorite AC songs... but it's not perfect.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Just the other day I listened to three Alice Cooper LPs : Easy Action, Billion Dollar Babies & Muscle Of Love. While I had a great time listening to EA & MOL, it was an akward feeling listening to BDB... just an OK album to me, not among the best AC albums.

We're all entitled to our opinions, however I can't see how any Alice Cooper fan could say an album with three of Alice Cooper's all-time classic songs ("Billion Dollar Babies", "Elected", and "No More Mr. Nice Guy") coupled with other excellent Alice Cooper songs is not at least "among" their/his best.

BDB is vastly superior to both MOL and EA in my book.

[recoop]

well both brill..but billion for me...halo flies and killer tracks are as good as anything..but generation l, elected, no more mng, hello hurray for me hook the listener in immediately-the middle guitar section of hello is fantastic, the outro of sick t is classic (both Steve H i believe)...the drums on bdb intro brilliant..BDB is a decadent show soundtrack..so for me bdb 10, killer 9 and it was a last minute winner.

[mestreech]

If I recall correct Ezrin admitted in one interview (sorry don't know which one) that the production of B$B was sterile and it was on purpose. He said that B$B had NO mistakes and was a 100% sterile production. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

To go back to the topic :

I prefer Killer over B$B

1. I discovered Alice with LITD and Killer
2. The sound and music is for me much more adventuros than B$B. The raw sound and the mystery make it for me THE ultimate Alice Cooper album.

[cooperrocks]

I personally prefer Billion Dollar Babies. To me, there is not a bad song on the album. It is a little more polished than the Killer album, but the songs are a little more catchy in my opinion. That being said (and this may sound like a contradiction), these days I would rather listen to Killer because I sort of view BDB like I do AC/DC's "Back in Black" album. The album is nearly flawless but I have heard the songs so many times, I prefer to listen to something a little less popular.

[HORRORHOLIC]

Definitely Killer. Killer and Love It To Death are my favorite AC group albums. I love Billion Dollar Babies, it Has some great songs but I don't think it's as good as those two, I might even like Schools Out a little more too. I'm not sure what it is but I just don't think it has the same flow as some of the other albums. What I mean by that for example is a song like Unfinished Sweet kind of ruins the whole flow of the album for me. Either way both are great albums, I just prefer Killer.

[pitkin88]

Some people thought Alice Cooper had sold out with BDB's and to some extent I can see why: the amount of singles lifted from it was a lot for the time. It was also very tongue in cheek and camp compared to Killer. Alice Cooper were in a lot of teen magazines and were starting to attract a younger audience. It certainly wasn't anywhere near as raw as Killer and some of the mystery was gone. That said, as far as I am concerned both are masterpieces.

[Parish]

Alice apparently suggests that the next Alice Cooper album will be recorded in 2013 by the original Alice Cooper band, Neal, Dennis, Michael and himself, with Bob Ezrin producing.

First off...

Secondly, KILLER

[revinkevin]

Well if they can do a W2MN, I sure hope they shoot for a Killer 2. Maybe a little less tongue in cheek and a little more aggresion and bad ass attitude. Either way this will be something to look forward to with great anticipation. Fingers so crossed.

[Parish]

Well if they can do a W2MN, I sure hope they shoot for a Killer 2. Maybe a little less tongue in cheek and a little more aggresion and bad ass attitude. Either way this will be something to look forward to with great anticipation. Fingers so crossed.

There was no tongue in cheek on the original IMO although some could and will argue that there was. For me, it was just the raw and rebellious attitute combined with the groundbreaking spookiness (of Dead Babies/Killer) that this album had that sealed the deal between the ACG and myself.

[revinkevin]

You are absolutley correct Parish. I meant that W2MN had a lot of tongue in cheek. Sorry if I did not make that clear. Killer was Killer. Very threatening and abrassive. I like a good joke too but when and if all the boys get back together again, I hope they go for the jugular.

[Parish]

You are absolutley correct Parish. I meant that W2MN had a lot of tongue in cheek. Sorry if I did not make that clear. Killer was Killer. Very threatening and abrassive. I like a good joke too but when and if all the boys get back together again, I hope they go for the jugular.

I understood what you meant believe me

I've gotten killed here with my thoughts on WTMN 2

[Street Schizo]

Both albums are brilliant in different ways. The production of BDB, in my opinion, was the blueprint for Welcome To My Nightmare. That over the top slick production with great songs. However on the other hand Killer had that raw quality (raw compared to BDB, not PFY) that I just love. It has an edge no other ACG album has. No Alice solo album has that edge either. I told somebody the other day that I'll take LITD, Killer, SO, BDB and WTMN over almost any album by anybody else. That's a pretty awesome body of work.

[Parish]

I think when you hear a record is almost as important as the music on it. I first heard Killer when I was 14 years old and like I stated in my review of B$B Deluxe it was a game, a set and a match made in heaven.

http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/store/rev ... deluxe.htm

I had first heard of Alice Cooper a few years earlier when strains of “Killer” would seep out of my brothers bedroom and would start its inevitable takeover of my mind , body and soul. I mean it's hard to go from “Sweet Caroline” by Neil Diamond to “Dead Babies” and not have it have a profound effect on ones psychy. When, “Schools Out “ overtook the airwaves a year later I was officially a fan and ready for the ultimate baptism that would come in the form of “Billion Dollar Babies”.

[DIMMA]

For what it´s worth, KILLER is Dennis Dunaways´ favorite Alice cooper album and Glen Buxton´s favorite was the "School´s Out" album. GB loved the fact that he had so much freedom on the SO album and he was particularly proud (and rightfully so) of his solo on "Blue Turk". Which is also one of my favorite GB solos along with "Dwight Fry" and "Eighteen" as played live on the ABC IN CONCERT TV special. Check it out on youtube. Awesome stuff!

[TodayMueller]

Dimma. I totally agree with you about that 18 intro solo. It's just fantastic, f.... great stuff. I think GB did it just as well on the St. Louis ´71 recording. I play that part over and over again in my car.
Too bad that they didn't invent that intro for the studio LITD recording.

[TodayMueller]

Oh yeah, and for what it's worth: I rate Killer way higher than BDB. Not that I don't think BDB is a great album, but IMO it is inferior to the previous 3 or four.
And I'm not comparing them for the hits. There are only a couple of hits among my favourite tracks off any album.
Killer and Schools Out are my all time favourites.
I don't really care about the technical/professional side of it, I just like the sound and "feel" a lot better on the albums before BDB.