I Am Made of You... without auto-tune?

[ThePainAddict]

"ask a committed Christian if there is a missionary element to Alice Cooper these days - that's all, don't take my word for it. It's what every member of a church is expected to do for starters"

Of course, you don't define what a "comitted Christian" is but you clearly don't understand the varieties of Christian expression in various denominations and sects (what you would probably call a "church").
Many pietistic groups (Mennonites/Amish, Old Order German Baptists, etc.) are not missionary in the least. Additionally neither is almost any group with "primitive" in their name, albeit for entirely different reasons.

While a Christian could easily see Christian expression in many Alice songs (obviously TLT, BP, & DT). However, to call I am made of You a born again song (as you did earlier), is only possible by reading into it your own perception of Alice's beliefs (which even if correct, is irrelevant).
The only direct Biblical references are from Genesis, not an exclusively Christian work. Moreover, the ideas of God as creator, either physical or metaphysical, is endorsed by many religions. Likewise terms like revelation and salvation are hardly unique to Christianity.

I know some Christians who are thoroughly convinced that nothing Alice could do could be considered Christian, while some people, like you, see it no matter what. Personally, I can see it, but like you, it is because of my perception of what Alice believes. By contrast I never thought of fields of regret, second coming, or even My God as an expression of his own belief, again I was simply basing it at the time on my own perception of his beliefs.

Most western literature and arts use Judeo-Christian themes of good/evil, sin, redemption, etc. without the artists themselves personally believing every aspect of such a belief system.
One scholar has counted 1,300 Biblical references in Shakespeare, yet the scholarly world is still divided on whether he was pro or anti catholic, or even anything more than nominally Christian.

Sorry, if I violated the board policy on the subject.

[Gunner]

"ask a committed Christian if there is a missionary element to Alice Cooper these days - that's all, don't take my word for it. It's what every member of a church is expected to do for starters"

Of course, you don't define what a "comitted Christian" is but you clearly don't understand the varieties of Christian expression in various denominations and sects (what you would probably call a "church").
Many pietistic groups (Mennonites/Amish, Old Order German Baptists, etc.) are not missionary in the least. Additionally neither is almost any group with "primitive" in their name, albeit for entirely different reasons.

I am referring to the sect to which Alice belongs, not some obscure sect you wish to cite. There is a good reason Alice writes the Christian based lyrics he does, and that is to hopefully influence people - this is part of the faith whether you know it or not. Why else would he bother??

While a Christian could easily see Christian expression in many Alice songs (obviously TLT, BP, & DT). However, to call I am made of You a born again song (as you did earlier), is only possible by reading into it your own perception of Alice's beliefs (which even if correct, is irrelevant).
The only direct Biblical references are from Genesis, not an exclusively Christian work. Moreover, the ideas of God as creator, either physical or metaphysical, is endorsed by many religions. Likewise terms like revelation and salvation are hardly unique to Christianity.

'In the beginning' he is referring to his old self - nothing to do with Genesis or the Bible. The Genesis story is a synthesis of many creation stories that are ALL alegorical of evolution (but not blind random mutations and natural selection of course). Anyway what are you trying to tell us? That those terms he uses don't relate to Christianity in this case? I think you are insulting our intelligence and your own.

Most western literature and arts use Judeo-Christian themes of good/evil, sin, redemption, etc. without the artists themselves personally believing every aspect of such a belief system.
One scholar has counted 1,300 Biblical references in Shakespeare, yet the scholarly world is still divided on whether he was pro or anti catholic, or even anything more than nominally Christian.

Shakespeare was Francis Bacon who was a Rosicrucian - which is essentially esoteric or mystical Christianity. These themes have been around since Ancient Egypt at least! Well before exoteric Christianity or any of the other religions - they all borrow from ancient motifs. Alice is using them in a Christian context.

Most western literature and arts use Judeo-Christian themes of good/evil, sin, redemption, etc. without the artists themselves personally believing every aspect of such a belief system.

So, what are you saying here? That although Alice is a Christian, he is using Judeo-christian themes and not believing in them. You are so depserate to not acknowldege this, that you aren't making any sense!

THOSE ARTISTS were part of 'secret societies', secret because of what the church would do to them. the themes are ancient AND ESOTERIC, they are, if you like, theosophical themes - modern expression of ancient wisdom.
You are considering only the exoteric expression.

I know some Christians who are thoroughly convinced that nothing Alice could do could be considered Christian

Because they are embroiled in an extreme fundamentalism, a literal interpretation to the extreme.

[Gunner]

Let me explain something;

By the term 'a committed Christian', I mean somebody that regularly goes to church, does Bibles studies and attempts to spread the 'Good News' (New Testament), Alice is all these. As a Christian, Alice would be completely 'ex-communicated' for singing about the subjects he does IF there wasn't clearly an underlying message for the audience. The new album is CLEARLY about his nightmare of a separation from God (hence the first track to set the scene). Do you honestly think for a second that when Alice SCREAMS "REPENT!!" half way through the 'Theatre of Death' show (which he did), that it wasn't addressed to anyone??

I think a lot of fans blank it out, but Alice Cooper is on a Christian mission whether you want to believe it or not.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I am referring to the sect to which Alice belongs, not some obscure sect you wish to cite.

Which "sect" is that?

[GailsFriend]

Gunner says..."The new album is CLEARLY about his nightmare of a separation from God (hence the first track to set the scene)."

and...."I think a lot of fans blank it out, but Alice Cooper is on a Christian mission whether you want to believe it or not."


I disagree with you....you sound paranoid, because:

a) the first track has multiple interpretations BESIDES spiritual....and so what?
and,
b) if Alice were using his music to change the hearts of people...why would Nurse Rozetta be masturbating onstage? That's an image I can't "blank out"...trust me!
and
c) if Alice is on a "mission", can you explain why he would release a song called "Shadow of Yourself", the lyrics are not very spiritual...nor, is the entire concept of ACAS: a serial killer is building his very own spider out of people he kills.


Clearly, you have some issues with religion....stop obsessing about it, and use your imagination for more fun things. You will smile more....

.....and if you guys wanna talk about "religion" in the "Auto-Tune" discussion, I have A LOT of W2MN reviews I can put in here too! Do you wanna go there?

[RemarkablyInsincere]

b) if Alice were using his music to change the hearts of people...why would Nurse Rozetta be masturbating onstage? That's an image I can't "blank out"...trust me!

I must have missed this part of the show.

Please describe what you interpret to be "masturbation".

[RemarkablyInsincere]

As a Christian, Alice would be completely 'ex-communicated' for singing about the subjects he does IF there wasn't clearly an underlying message for the audience.

Nonsense.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The new album is CLEARLY about his nightmare of a separation from God (hence the first track to set the scene).

In a previous post, I'm almost certain you said the nightmare was a fear of descending back into alcholism.

[GailsFriend]

b) if Alice were using his music to change the hearts of people...why would Nurse Rozetta be masturbating onstage? That's an image I can't "blank out"...trust me!

I must have missed this part of the show.

Please describe what you interpret to be "masturbation".

this is very sexually suggestive....as is the song. Hardly spiritual...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOb8liNE7y0

[RemarkablyInsincere]

this is very sexually suggestive....as is the song. Hardly spiritual...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOb8liNE7y0

I can't see the video as I'm at work so please describe.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

If you're referring to her using the grinding tool, maybe I'm naive but that didn't strike me as masturbation.

I think that's your interpretation.

[GailsFriend]

now, that is funny....a woman using a grinder on her nether regions does not communicate something sexual to you? Do the sparks represent butterflies or something?

[RemarkablyInsincere]

now, that is funny....a woman using a grinder on her nether regions does not communicate something sexual to you? Do the sparks represent butterflies or something?

Maybe you're right, but that thought didn't occur to me. I just assumed it was meant to be a cool effect.

Without seeing the video, though, I don't seem to remember her throwing her head back in ecstasy or anything that would be indicative of that you're describing.

[GailsFriend]

Um...let me spell it out for you:

SHEISGRINDINGHERHIPSAGAINSTAGRINDERAND
SPARKSARESHOOTINGOUTOFHERFLOWERIFYOUWANNACALLITTHAT


and she looks like Regan from the Exorcist...when she is masturbating with a crucifix.

same imagery....same idea....get it?

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Um...let me spell it out for you:

SHEISGRINDINGHERHIPSAGAINSTAGRINDERAND
SPARKSARESHOOTINGOUTOFHERFLOWERIFYOUWANNACALLITTHAT


and she looks like Regan from the Exorcist...when she is masturbating with a crucifix.

same imagery....same idea....get it?

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe purposely ambiguous.

Let others weigh in with their opinions.

[juancoop]

Well, I am with Gailsfriend on this one... it is obvious the masturbation sense to me with all that friction and sparks, also the lyrics have that only direction: sex.
Wet the pants, suddenly twice his size, etc... It is sex, just sex.
It is the same video of the Theater of Death DVD.
What I dont understand is what happens right after Nurse Rozetta, why Alice takes the wig off her and put it himself?
Anyone?

[steven_crayn]

Tweaking and altering is nothing new, but with ProTools is 10x a lot easier to do now. Vocally and musically there have been tricks and cheats for a few decades that have been done (some discovered by accident, some on purpose.) Even Pink Floyd had to use a vocal cheat for David Gilmour on the "Wish You Were Here" album!

But since we KNOW that auto-tune wasn't used in the capacity that had been previously thought, admittedly even by me, it's no good to discuss the ifs, ands and buts about it in regards to "I Am Made of You."

You need to get your facts right

It was Roger Waters who strained his voice on Shine On You Crazy Diamond and couldn't sing Have A Cigar so Roy Harper who was also recording at Abbey Road helped out when Gilmour declined to take over from Waters on the song.

Also people are splitting hairs over auto tune, it is a term in the public consciousness now that either means "that effect Cher used" or the subtle fixing of a vocal in the studio.
Alice used something similar on I Am Made Of You for effect and most people hadn't heard of Square Wave, but to suggest Alice can't sing and is using auto tune to keep in tune all over the place is not true.

It is used in the industry, but having heard it used in recording studios it isn't something Alice needs. Just listen to before it existed, I think Alice proved he was a fantastic singer on his classic records so does anyone really think he can't deliver without auto tune?

People don't give Alice the respect he deserves as a singer, just because he doesnt have the vocal range of say a David Coverdale means jack to me, no one has had such an original malevolent voice and just ask musicians who played with him like Al Pitrelli who said how good his pitch is and how underrated he is as a vocalist.

From the WYWH songbook:

"The only time we've ever used tape speed to help us with vocals was on one line of the Machine song. It was a line I just couldn't reach so we dropped the tape down half a semitone and then dropped the line in on the track"

I misunderstood you when you said vocal cheat as referring as some have that Waters & Gilmour couldn't handle Have A Cigar and that is why Roy Harper sang it when that was purely down to Waters problems after recording Shine On and Gilmour declining to sing it for other reasons.

You are correct about the quarter tone trick on one line on Machine, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[steven_crayn]

Just to add to what Devon said above, the effect is very useful in putting emphasis on the emotion later on. The vocal effect makes things appear cold, unfeeling and very matter-of-fact. Then you get Alice without the effect at points in the song where the emotion and perhaps vulnerability really need to come out, and it works.

For me, this is what makes the song. This effect adds to the song, doesn't take from it.

Well put plus of course Steve Hunter's solo.

Love the fact that Alice told him he wanted something like Goodbye To Love, Tony Peluso's solos on that Carpenters song are all time great solos, Alice knows a great guitar solo when he hears it!

[A_MichaelUK]

>What I dont understand is what happens right after Nurse Rozetta, why Alice takes the wig off her and put it himself?
Anyone?

Because he's insane. He's in a mental asylum, after all.

[GailsFriend]

His name is Alice, too.