Re-Sequencing W2MN

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Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Model Citizen » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:34 pm

I've seen some talk about the flow (or perceived lack thereof) of the storyline on the new album. Having heard "Under The Bed" for the first time yesterday, I am a little puzzled as to why the song was merely a bonus track since it does seem to fit nicely into the story. I've seen mention of other tracks seeming out of sequence as well. Anyone care to take a crack at re-sequencing the tracklisting? I'd be interested in seeing how others might envision the storyline.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by While Heaven Wept » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:50 pm

Model Citizen wrote:I've seen some talk about the flow (or perceived lack thereof) of the storyline on the new album. Having heard "Under The Bed" for the first time yesterday, I am a little puzzled as to why the song was merely a bonus track since it does seem to fit nicely into the story. I've seen mention of other tracks seeming out of sequence as well. Anyone care to take a crack at re-sequencing the tracklisting? I'd be interested in seeing how others might envision the storyline.
I find it interesting that noone has mentioned the original nightmare, which (in my opinion) had less flow in concept than W2MN.

Still a great album ofcourse.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Billie1966 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:56 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:
Model Citizen wrote:I've seen some talk about the flow (or perceived lack thereof) of the storyline on the new album. Having heard "Under The Bed" for the first time yesterday, I am a little puzzled as to why the song was merely a bonus track since it does seem to fit nicely into the story. I've seen mention of other tracks seeming out of sequence as well. Anyone care to take a crack at re-sequencing the tracklisting? I'd be interested in seeing how others might envision the storyline.
I find it interesting that noone has mentioned the original nightmare, which (in my opinion) had less flow in concept than W2MN.

Still a great album ofcourse.
Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for bringing this to the light.
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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Model Citizen » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:17 pm

I totally agree with you about WTMN. That album seems so fragmented (albeit fantastic) that I could never even begin to assemble the songs into any sensible order.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by wind_up_toy » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:51 am

Having sat down with the album and listened to it with lyrics in hand, it didn't come across as being out of sequence to me. I Gotta Get Out of Here ties things together nicely. I like the Underture but see the aforementioned previous track as the album closer.

Can't work out where to put the bonus tracks just yet and will wait to hear Flatline before doing so.
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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by homerx » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:25 am

I. Think it flows very well. Tells a good story.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by killer wolf » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:40 am

nightmares IRL seldom follow coherent routes and plots!
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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:09 am

>I am a little puzzled as to why the song was merely a bonus track since it does seem to fit nicely into the story.

That depends on what you think "the story is" as it is open to interpretation and also (although this isn't necessarily directed at you), some people are getting confused between the "the story" and concept.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Vlad the Impala » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:24 pm

Reading in the Classic Rock 'Fan-Pack' Alice clearly sees the running order as telling a story, so I presume that it is not really open to change.

However, I would have liked to have seen 'Under The Bed' in there somewhere; omitting it was a bit of a faux pax, in my very humble opinion!
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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by While Heaven Wept » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:30 pm

Vlad the Impala wrote: omitting it was a bit of a faux pax, in my very humble opinion!
Well... he didn't omit it from the version you got so i don't really see the problem?

Listening to the lyrics, i can understand why they didn't include it as it doesn't fit naturally onto the album. Fantastic song though.... what a chorus!

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:36 am

>so I presume that it is not really open to change.

Other interpretations are still allowed.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by killer_juju » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:15 pm

I re-sequenced the album as a 13 track album with 'Bad Situation' and 'Under The Bed' added and 'I Am Made Of You and 'Disco Bloodbath' omitted, and I have found the album to be salvageable and more to my liking.

The sequence I made is:

Bad Situation
Caffeine
The Nightmare Returns
A Runaway Train
Last Man On Earth
The Congregation
I'll Bite Your Face Off
Ghouls Gone Wild
Something To Remember Me By
When Hell Comes Home
What Baby Wants
I Gotta Get Outta Here

I think Bad Situation would have fit perfectly as the opening track or track 2. As a psychologist, I sat here listening to the track thinking...Wow, this guy's life is a miserable, nightmare. He is addicted to 'caffeine, amphetamine, a little speed,' because of the nightmares, but in this context, they have led to a miserable existence altogether. Or maybe the drug abuse came from the fast pace life that he seems to be living, and he started using to try and keep up, but now he knows what will happen if he stops using. I mean he is a mental case and an addict, so his thinking and the reason he does things will not always add up.

There are so many different ways that this song could fit the story. Yet again, I think they botched the process altogether. As I have specified with my opinions already, they made a lazy, lackluster album, but one that I think could have been pretty amazing.

I also went in and cut the ending of Disco Bloodbath from the solo to the end and pasted it onto the ending of Ghouls Gone Wild. While still not a huge fan of Ghouls Gone Wild, I do find this listenable, and I have the best part of Disco Bloodbath, so that track is out the door.

Anyway, not that any of this matters, but I now have found a way to personally enjoy it. I just could not find anything pleasing about the actual release, but having the bonus tracks replace songs that I found inferior has given this 'album' a new lease on life in my mind. Plus it ties the 4 albums that speak of Steven together.

WTMN is Steven's first nightmare or possibly mental episode...Goes To Hell is his descent into the depths of his mental state...Wind-Up Toy and Along Came A Spider feature Steven locked up probably in a ward, and he has started having these violent fantasies...W2MN (the way I have it configured) features Steven back outside in the public world, but apparently having a hard time finding happiness, having a hard time dealing with his mental state/nightmares, and self-medicating.

I think Alice and Bob had a great release recorded, but maybe they thought it would be 'shocking' with the hip hop and modern pop flourishes, and they instead made an album that doesn't live up to what it could have been.
Last edited by killer_juju on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by andyrew » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:27 pm

> WTMN is Steven's first nightmare or possibly mental episode...Goes To Hell is his decent into the depths of his mental state...Wind-Up Toy and Along Came A Spider feature Steven locked up probably in a war, and he has started having this violent fantasies...W2MN (the way I have it configured) features Steven back outside in the public world, but apparently having a hard time finding happiness, having a hard time dealing with his mental state/nightmares, and self-medicating.

What about The Last Temptation?

> I think Alice and Bob had a great release recorded, but maybe they thought it would be 'shocking' with the hip hop and modern pop flourishes, and they instead made an album that doesn't live up to what it could have been.

I agree. Although I don't mind the modern stuff that was put in, it would have been cool if it were in the same light as the first one, at least for us Alice fans. Although, having the same kind of sounding nightmare would kind of seem redundant to do and a bit outdated for everyone else. He would probably get criticized for "playing it safe" and "not doing something different", the complete opposite of what he has done. The world's a funny place :alice:

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by killer_juju » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:47 pm

The Last Temptation fits in also. It's just another nightmare. Basically all of the stories of Steven are nightmares or mental episodes.

The Last Temptation though shows Steven overcoming a nightmare in a much more positive spiritual way, because it was Alice creating a story around him escaping from the claws of addiction and his sin (represented by the Showman as The Devil). This story could be a high point in Steven's life. Maybe after 'going to hell,' he was put into a facility as seen with wind up toy, and he then came out of it, and he felt like this was him defeating his battle...The Last Temptation, but along the way as with many people, he relapsed while still a kid.

So with Along Came A Spider, you see that he is now not a kid anymore, and he is having these violent fantasies, and W2MN shows him out trying to live normally to no avail.

People with mental illness however have these moments also. Many feel mentally and spiritually more powerful and strong then they really are, so in that sense, the story could easily fit into the Steven continuum.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Si » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:07 pm

andyrew wrote:> WTMN is Steven's first nightmare or possibly mental episode...Goes To Hell is his decent into the depths of his mental state...
If you read the "bedtime story" on the sleeve it tells you that GTH is a story being told *TO* Steven, not about him.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Gunner » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:41 am

nightmares IRL seldom follow coherent routes and plots!
This is very true, and it has surprised me that many have 'forgotten' this truth. If anything, I would say that the original WTMN was more 'nightmare-like' in that sense.
I mean, have any of you ever had a nightmare that pretty much is a linear story of a visit to hell and back?

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:07 am

>If you read the "bedtime story" on the sleeve it tells you that GTH is a story being told *TO* Steven, not about him.

Exactly. It's layers upon layers and while I accept it can be interesting, there's no need to keep torturing yourselves by trying to find clear and definitive narratives in the various sagas. Not even Alice is entirely clear how it all 'fits together' - all he has said is that 'Steven' is another aspect of the personality of 'Alice', which in terms of fiction can hardly be unusual in the worlds of fantasy, horror and literature.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Gunner » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:41 am

If you read the "bedtime story" on the sleeve it tells you that GTH is a story being told *TO* Steven, not about him.
Yes, but, the storyteller urges Steven to go to sleep, experience this nightmare and thus decend into the depths of his mental state.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by Twiggy5Manson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:55 am

After debating it for a week I decided to slip Under The Bed in as track 2. I think it works musically and story-wise and I didn't like it slapped at the end.

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Re: Re-Sequencing W2MN

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:57 am

>Yes, but, the storyteller urges Steven to go to sleep, experience this nightmare and thus decend into the depths of his mental state.

But who is having "this nightmare" to begin with?

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