Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:09 pm

>No he wasn't, he was referring to the entire song!

The "vocal" isn't part of the song. It is part of the recording. You can remove the "vocal" and replace it with another and it would still be the same song. Otherwise, you would be denying that the guitar sounds like something Keith Richards would play and I assume you're not doing that.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by digitaledge » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:13 pm

steven_crayn wrote:
Jumping Jack wrote:No energy, no chemistry, no excitment, no fun. The live show has has become nothing but shtick and posing this year. Damon was smart to leave when he did. Replacing Keri with Tommy was the "Jump The Shark" moment.
Keri was replaced by Steve Hunter a legendary guitarist so what are you talking about with your jump the shark nonsense? talk about jumping the gun. Tommy primarily a rhythm player as part of a 3 guitar line up gives the band a solid base and having played and written on Alice's best album in decades is hardly a jump the shark moment!

Think Alice, Bob and co know what they are doing don't you?!
Jumping Jack - Tommy is an incredibly capable guitar player (as well as songwriter). Yes, he plays mostly rhythm on stage and on the album, but at least he's a solid rhythm player. However, he's also a very capable lead player - he plays lead on a few of the W2MN tracks, and he co-wrote quite a few of them too. And it IS one of Alice's best albums, and perhaps Tommy's production helped that a bit too.

Don't be so quick to dismiss him.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by ThePainAddict » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:22 pm

I didn't care for the introduction: "Alice Cooper featuring Orianthi"
Besides that, the performance was good for the venue (I seldom see a knockout performance on a TV show). Orianthi's solo seemed louder in the mix than Steve's slide work.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by bruna8728 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:38 pm

recoop wrote:I couldnt view link provided by James 9first time i have had problem)..could see earlier Orianthi backstage vid..any tips(jay leno site says I am out of region)
I uploaded it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETjYGyw6qxA

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by NotSoPerfect » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:41 pm

GNDM wrote:Lose the gum, little lady.
Ha! I have to admit, this made me think she fit in even more. The two shows that I saw this summer, both Tommy and Steve were chewing gum.
:laugh:
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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by recoop » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:22 pm

thanks bruna 8728 for posting to you tube..made my night..thought that was a cracking performance all round..count see any prob saying featuring..good PR..she's the newest addition..why not use it..as for chewing gum(its ok for me..its a rockband..she can chew whatever she likes..schools out :grin: )
You are an individual, just like everybody else.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by bruna8728 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:52 pm

recoop wrote:thanks bruna 8728 for posting to you tube..made my night..thought that was a cracking performance all round..count see any prob saying featuring..good PR..she's the newest addition..why not use it..as for chewing gum(its ok for me..its a rockband..she can chew whatever she likes..schools out :grin: )
You're welcome

I liked the performance :HEART: , but i think in the show is way better, i guess tv performances can't win shows performances.

Ah! and Steve is great like always.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by dadascot » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:15 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>No he wasn't, he was referring to the entire song!

The "vocal" isn't part of the song. It is part of the recording. You can remove the "vocal" and replace it with another and it would still be the same song. Otherwise, you would be denying that the guitar sounds like something Keith Richards would play and I assume you're not doing that.
This is, of course, nonsense. Of course the vocal is part of the song. Any singer will tell you that the voice is as much an instument as a guitar. The vocal can add a melody on top of the instruments or can play counter-point to the instruments. You can remove the electric guitar and replace it with an acoustic, you can replace the guitar with piano. the second part of your post doesn't even make sense. The 'song' is made up of all the component parts, the instruments, the vocal, the lyrics. You dont need a 'recording' to make it a song. I merely pointed out that I felt the vocal was too rough IMO and needed to be a bit smoother to get the Stone's sound that ALice said he was looking for. I think this would also have helped the song get more air play.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:42 pm

>Of course the vocal is part of the song.

No it isn't. The vocal melody is. That is the difference you don't understand. You can sing a melody in a gruff or 'smooth' way but it is still the same melody. You are getting confused between the sound of the voice and the melody that the voice is actually expressing.

> Any singer will tell you that the voice is as much an instument as a guitar.

You can change that and still have the same melody.

> The vocal can add a melody on top of the instruments

But you weren't talking about the melody. I am the one who introduced that concept. You wrote:
"For this song to be the Stone's tribute that Alice say's it is his vocal needs to be a bit smoother." As you also wrote: "This is, of course, nonsense." Since when were The Rolling Stones known for a "smoother" "vocal"? Does that mean "Happy" doesn't sound like The Rolling Stones just because the "vocal" there isn't 'smooth' either? You can replace Mick Jagger's voice with your's on "Brown Sugar" and it will still sound like The Rolling Stones as long as nothing else has changed. It is so obvious that Alice was referring to the guitar sound as the defining element (and the hand - claps, but that's something else entirely) in "I'll Bite Your Face Off". Even BEFORE he starts singing, it is so recognisably a recording that sounds like something The Rolling Stones could have come uop with. What about the verses on "Perfect"? Are you saying they don't sound like The Rolling Stones because the "vocal" is not 'smooth'? The same can be said for "Dance Your Self To Death", "Cold Ethyl" and "Novocaine" as well, all of which have been influenced by The Rolling Stones to some extent.

> 'song' is made up of all the component parts, the instruments, the vocal, the lyrics

You started by referring to the "vocal", then the melody, now it's the "vocal" again. They re two different things. The 'smoothness' or otherwise has nothing to do with it.

>I merely pointed out that I felt the vocal was too rough IMO and needed to be a bit smoother to get the Stone's sound that ALice said he was looking for.

Are you confusing Mick Jagger with Marvin Gaye or something?

>I think this would also have helped the song get more air play.

So how do you explain all the "air play" The Rolling Stones used to get? Was it because of the "smoother" "vocal"?

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by juancoop » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:50 pm

bruna8728 wrote:
recoop wrote:I couldnt view link provided by James 9first time i have had problem)..could see earlier Orianthi backstage vid..any tips(jay leno site says I am out of region)
I uploaded it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETjYGyw6qxA
thank you for doing so. It was my chance to finally see it.

I dont think Alice had some vocal issues here, the band sounded fine.
Orianthi looks very HOT. but I accept that she is the opposite in her attitude. Maybe a little static too.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by dadascot » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:39 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Of course the vocal is part of the song.

No it isn't. The vocal melody is. That is the difference you don't understand. You can sing a melody in a gruff or 'smooth' way but it is still the same melody. You are getting confused between the sound of the voice and the melody that the voice is actually expressing.

> Any singer will tell you that the voice is as much an instument as a guitar.

You can change that and still have the same melody.

> The vocal can add a melody on top of the instruments

But you weren't talking about the melody. I am the one who introduced that concept. You wrote:
"For this song to be the Stone's tribute that Alice say's it is his vocal needs to be a bit smoother." As you also wrote: "This is, of course, nonsense." Since when were The Rolling Stones known for a "smoother" "vocal"? Does that mean "Happy" doesn't sound like The Rolling Stones just because the "vocal" there isn't 'smooth' either? You can replace Mick Jagger's voice with your's on "Brown Sugar" and it will still sound like The Rolling Stones as long as nothing else has changed. It is so obvious that Alice was referring to the guitar sound as the defining element (and the hand - claps, but that's something else entirely) in "I'll Bite Your Face Off". Even BEFORE he starts singing, it is so recognisably a recording that sounds like something The Rolling Stones could have come uop with. What about the verses on "Perfect"? Are you saying they don't sound like The Rolling Stones because the "vocal" is not 'smooth'? The same can be said for "Dance Your Self To Death", "Cold Ethyl" and "Novocaine" as well, all of which have been influenced by The Rolling Stones to some extent.

> 'song' is made up of all the component parts, the instruments, the vocal, the lyrics

You started by referring to the "vocal", then the melody, now it's the "vocal" again. They re two different things. The 'smoothness' or otherwise has nothing to do with it.

>I merely pointed out that I felt the vocal was too rough IMO and needed to be a bit smoother to get the Stone's sound that ALice said he was looking for.

Are you confusing Mick Jagger with Marvin Gaye or something?

>I think this would also have helped the song get more air play.

So how do you explain all the "air play" The Rolling Stones used to get? Was it because of the "smoother" "vocal"?
I am not going to go this point for point because I am bored with you trying to pick everyone's post to pieces but I brought in vocal melody, you never mentioned it, so you are twisting this FACT to try and make yourself right. I never mentioned 'perfect' but as YOU brought it up, yes I think Alice's vocals on this song are smoother and this gives it a more 'stones' sound. Jagger doesn't have the Alice growl, therefor when Alice does a song {perfect is a good comparison} it does sound more jageresque. The stones sound isn't just unique because of Richards guitar sound, as you state, but also Jaggers voice, as well as the the rest of the band. To twist what I said by trying to compare Jagger to Marvin Gaye is just facestious. If you replaced my voice with Mick Jaggers on Brown sugar I can assure you it wouldn't sound anyting like the Rolling stone's. Obviously you are going to give another of your long winded replies to this but this is my last post on the subject.
P.S. Your wrong, the vocal IS part of the song, just live with it.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by A_MichaelUK » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:27 pm

>I am not going to go this point for point because I am bored with you trying to pick everyone's post to pieces

No, it's because you can't, that's why. If you were able to stand by your post, you would rebut my replies.

> but I brought in vocal melody, you never mentioned it, so you are twisting this FACT to try and make yourself right.

Yes, you did. That is my mistake, but it doesn't change anything. You are still getting confused between the sound of the voice (rough or smooth) and what the voice is actually expressing (the melody).

> I never mentioned 'perfect'

I never said you did.

> yes I think Alice's vocals on this song are smoother and this gives it a more 'stones' sound.

Are you seriously saying that a smooth voice makes something sound like The Rolling Stones but that Keith Richards doesn't?! Be serious! Are you SERIOUSLY saying that what gives The Rolling Stones their signature sound is a smooth voice rather than the sound of Keith Richards playing the guitar?!

>Jagger doesn't have the Alice growl,

He doesn't necessarily have a 'smooth' voice either but according to you that's one of defining elements of The Rolling Stones or something. That's insane.

> when Alice does a song {perfect is a good comparison} it does sound more jageresque.

But Alice never said he was trying to "sound more jageresque" - he said he was trying to sound like The Rolling Stones and he referred to the guitar sound specifically. Again, ask anyone who heard the song at the shows before they even heard the recorded version. Everyone knows it sounded like The Rolling Stones before Alice even started singing. It was clear from even the worst footage on YouTube as well.

>The stones sound isn't just unique because of Richards guitar sound, as you state,

No, but it is the most recognisable element.

> but also Jaggers voice,

But not as much as the way Charlie Watts plays the drums either.

> as well as the the rest of the band. To twist what I said by trying to compare Jagger to Marvin Gaye is just facestious.

Not at all. If you ask anyone to describe Mick Jagger's voice, I doubt 'smooth' would be at the top of that list.

>If you replaced my voice with Mick Jaggers on Brown sugar I can assure you it wouldn't sound anyting like the Rolling stone's

Of course it would. How come "Dance Yourself To Death" sounds like The Rolling Stones even though Jagger doesn't sing on it? What about "Happy"? That sounds like The Rolling Stones and Jagger doesn't sing on that.

>P.S. Your wrong, the vocal IS part of the song, just live with it.

Is that REALLY the best you can do?

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by scotty » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:20 pm

[quote="ThePainAddict"]I didn't care for the introduction: "Alice Cooper featuring Orianthi"
Besides that, the performance was good for the venue (I seldom see a knockout performance on a TV show). Orianthi's solo seemed louder in the mix than Steve's slide work.[/quote]


alice's maracas were louder than steve hunter,and that is not right.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by rtbuck » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:47 am

I enjoyed the performance & I was thinking could one of the reasons bringing Orianthi in in the band (besides her credentials & past work on American Idol w/ Alice)is that live she could sing Ke$ha's part.

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by scotty » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:04 am

millie and billie!

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by HORRORHOLIC » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:24 am

I thought it was good for where it was. I don't think The Tonight Show is the best setting for Alice Cooper
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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by HeyAlice » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:09 am

GlitterQueen wrote:I'm sure I'll catch hell for this opinion, but hey, it's mine and it's honest.

So far, I'm really not impressed with Orianthi. Yes, the girl has chops for miles, no question. She's a stupidly talented guitarist. But she was about as exciting to watch play tonight as watching paint dry. No personality, no chemistry at all with the other members, nothing. Just chewed her gum and looked bored to be there.

I realize that she's the newbie in a relatively established group of musicians, so who knows - perhaps it was nothing more than opening night jitters. She may very well "warm up" as the shows go on and she finds her footing within the group dynamic. Perhaps within the context of an entire concert she's a little more involved and lively.

But just based on tonight - I didn't dig it.
Personally im not big on Orianthi in Alice's band either but will see
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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by Alicehunter2000 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:57 am

I love the option of the "ignore list" on this site. So much more pleasant these days. :grin:

I think his voice was slightly off key. I wonder if it is because he may have trouble hearing himself sing in live settings. In the studio he got the headphones blending everything perfectly and whatnot.
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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by alan1958 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:21 pm

I watched this clip after reading the posts about the off-key vocals ....and feared the worst ....Of course I noticed a few notes he didn't quite get , and the slight gruffness in his voice .....but I don't really think it affected an otherwise strong T.V performance , which is a format that can be a problem for all bands.....Alice was great,loved the maracas ,the band's playing (and look)was spot -on .....As for the new member - maybe she did lack a bit of movement during her first live T.V show , but she was almost on her knees during the last few power-chords....doesn't really equate with a lack of interest or boredom .

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Re: Alice on Jay Leno-Friday, Sep.9

Post by cooperrocks » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:30 pm

I thought the band sounded relatively tight and it was a good performance. There is not a lot of room on stage when you are doing a television performance, so you are basically stuck in the same place. With all due respect, I am not quite sure what some people were expecting regarding Orianthi's performance. She played very well and if she had been running around on stage, I suspect many people would complain she was trying to show up Alice, so you have sort of a danged if you do, danged if you don't situation. I agree Kerri and Damon were great musicians, but she and the rest of the band are too. Alice is a solo act which means every few years you can expect changes in the lineup.

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