Lace and Whiskey

tommystooge · Post by **tommystooge** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:06 pm

ThePainAddict wrote:"Its a shame the coop has never in my view gone out on a limb since Da Da ( He has played it all very safe )."

I totally understand what you mean, and do agree to a large extant. However, an argument could be made that he went "out on a limb" by embracing the metal/hair band sound in the 80s and then to the nu metal of BP & DT.
While, clearly none these broached the experimental elements of DaDa, they did assimilate to the contemporary sound, much like FtF & SF also did.

I agree, Alice always seems to adopt the sound of the day to tray and fit in or stay current.
The thing I like about the Stones, they always stayed the same, they didn't change their sound to fit in.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:55 pm

>Alice always seems to adopt the sound of the day to tray and fit in

How is that going "out on a limb" as ThePainAddict put it?

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:18 pm

tommystooge wrote:The thing I like about the Stones, they always stayed the same, they didn't change their sound to fit in.

"Miss You" and "Emotional Rescue" are heavily disco influenced.

tommystooge · Post by **tommystooge** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:45 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Alice always seems to adopt the sound of the day to tray and fit in

How is that going "out on a limb" as ThePainAddict put it?

You misunderstood, he hasn't gone out on a limb, is what PainAddict said.

tommystooge · Post by **tommystooge** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:47 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
tommystooge wrote:The thing I like about the Stones, they always stayed the same, they didn't change their sound to fit in.
"Miss You" and "Emotional Rescue" are heavily disco influenced.

ya, but it still sounds like the Stones, not the Stones trying to do disco.

I loved when Alice went back to his roots on Eyes and Diamonds.

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:42 am

tommystooge wrote:ya, but it still sounds like the Stones, not the Stones trying to do disco.

Many Stones fans didn't like those songs.

ThePainAddict · Post by **ThePainAddict** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:07 am

"You misunderstood, he hasn't gone out on a limb, is what PainAddict said."

No, I was actually saying that "an argument could be made that adapting to a revalent sound could be going out on a limb, if an artist was not already conversant in that style. I told Criss that I did understand his point, but just showing some counterbalance.
Likewise, DaDa is usually thought of as an experimental project and what people usually consider going out on a limb. However, one could argue that it was merely throwing out whatever music was available to finish out a recording contract with Warners.
I am not sure there is any objective truth, apart from the true perspective of those participating at the time, and wasn't stating my opinion, just throwing out some alternative perspective.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:46 am

>You misunderstood, he hasn't gone out on a limb, is what PainAddict said.

No, you did, as ThePainAddict explained.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:54 am

>However, one could argue that it was merely throwing out whatever music was available to finish out a recording contract with Warners.

That's sort of correct.

>assimilate to the contemporary sound

That's not really considered to be taking a risk though.

>I am not sure there is any objective truth, apart from the true perspective of those participating at the time, and wasn't stating my opinion, just throwing out some alternative perspective.

I understand all that. The irony is that the very albums you chose as examples of Alice maybe going out “on a limb” are the very same albums that he frequently gets accused of jumping into the mainstream with, which is the point that criss was making.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:13 am

It would be interesting to hear Lace and Whiskey and the four early 80's Alice albums with better production.

Well, I'm not sure that the production on all of those besides Sepcial Forces and Zipper could be improved upon really - are you??

Dannorama · Post by **Dannorama** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:21 am

Alice has always been a rock chameleon, reflecting the changes in popular music. It is unfortunate that this ability of his began to show itself during the age of disco. As I recall, 1977 was not a great year by any measure. I think this album is a quick reflection on the times. What would this record have sounded like if punk predated disco? Or how about hair metal? We'll never know. I'm just trying to say that Alice is always updating, changing (arranging!) his approach. I think he's very smart to branch out like that.

Remember also, this was a time when "The Gong Show" was a measure of cool.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:13 pm

I don't think this record was influenced by disco if that's what you are getting at - he hates disco. Besides, I don't think the 'disco explosion' occured until late 1977 - I seem to recall 1977 being the year of 'Grease' (maybe that's what Ubangi Stomp was all about?)mainly - and the Sex Pistols over in the UK.

What would this record have sounded like if punk predated disco?

Special Forces?

I'm just trying to say that Alice is always updating, changing (arranging!)

I'm not that I agree with that really. It has only ever really been a variation on a theme if anything. The show has been re-hashed again again again and again.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:24 pm

>The show has been re-hashed again again again and again.

That's a bit of a stretch, I think.

recoop · Post by **recoop** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:14 pm

Re Lace and Whiskey..since Alice has mentioned that it was not Alice who had the drink problem but Vince(or the off stage Alice)..I have tried to class Lace and Whiskey as a Vince album produced in an alcohol haze..described in another thread as a steaming pile of something..for me it was truly terrible..both then and now..but only my opinion..still have it on LP..not replaced on CD....I shudder to think what would have ensued if No More had been a big hit and Alice had carried on drinking..arghh

the maniac · Post by **the maniac** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:45 pm

i like lace and whiskey, its different, Alice is different, thats what i like about it, most things he does is different. simples

Robert Gerard Hunt · Post by **Robert Gerard Hunt** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:16 am

recoop wrote:I have tried to class Lace and Whiskey as a Vince album produced in an alcohol haze..h

Excellent point, Recoop! L&W could have been called "Vince's Revenge".

Model Citizen · Post by **Model Citizen** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:28 am

I've always had a soft spot for the album, but I do think most of it comes off like a self-indictment of sorts. So much of it feels like he was trying to appeal to as many tastes as possible without any concern for whether or not it even sounded or felt like Alice Cooper. I personally dig L&W, maybe for that reason, but it sure was a misfire at the time.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:10 am

Street Schizo wrote:He just sounds out of gas on this one. I don't love it but I don't hate it. It is the first album that contains a few songs that I just loathe. No More Love, Damned If Yo Do and Ubangi Stomp I just don't get. I like My God very much. Most of the album is good imo. And You & Me was my wedding song so it can't be too bad. It's amazing how many people know that song but don't know it's Alice. The production was just OK. I thought Peter Gabriel's first album had similar production. Slowburn and Here Comes The Flood would fit pretty good on L&W. Maybe it's just Steve and Dick doing there thing. Anyway, this album overall was just Ok. IMO.

The production on Gabriel's first solo album is a lot better than just ok! it's one of Bob Ezrin's finest productions and the best solo work Gabriel has done in my opinion. It is a better album than Alice's Lace because Gabriel knows his direction whereas though I love half of Lace Alice didn't find his direction again until From The Inside which for me was better than everything he did after Nightmare and everything since From The Inside, though the Nightmare 2 sequel could well be the best thing Alice has done since the original album.

steven_crayn · Post by **steven_crayn** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:21 am

DaveJay wrote:Admittedly, it's not one of my all-time favourite Alice records, but it still gets the odd "Spin", when I'm in the mood to do a bit of Ironing.....it was, at the time ( for me, anyway) a WORLD away from what was happening elsewhere musically ( Punk, new-wave, etc)....and I totally HATED Damned if you do, and Ubangi stomp). I sort of got the "Joke" with NMLAYC, and still think it's ok.( I used to play it when I DJ'd in bars, as a "Pop quiz" type of thing....it confused some people, but someone once guessed right, and won a free drink...).

I want "My God" Played Loudly ( with lyric sheets provided for the millions of mourners) as the curtains close at my cremation ( Which should be fun, as I am "Flame resistant" ...).

I used to have a piece of paper on my person with the instruction that My God should be played at my funeral!

homerx · Post by **homerx** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:56 pm

where do the music video come from such as as
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGtAZXO22wg.

Is it out On any video format or just lost to the depths of TV

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