Moderators: Devon, Gorehound, Si, SickThings, Shoesalesman
Alice is wrong in saying that he believes in that album??>I remember Andy Michael saying on here that Alice told him personally something to the effect that Alice believed in the album.
He did say that and I still think he's wrong!
what reasons have you given? you have just thrown around lazy adjectives.While Heaven Wept wrote:The trouble is Steven, i have given reasons for why i believe the production, playing and lyrics to be 'crap' but you just don't want to hear them.
I respect the fact that you feel differently and i'm glad that you and others like it, but that doesn't make mine or anyone-elses opinion invalid.
I gave a pretty comprehensive run-down of what i thought about the album when it first came out and i really can't be bothered to repeat myself. At the end of the day, you think this is his best record for 30 years and i think the exact opposite so there's really no middle-ground to share!steven_crayn wrote:what reasons have you given? you have just thrown around lazy adjectives.While Heaven Wept wrote:The trouble is Steven, i have given reasons for why i believe the production, playing and lyrics to be 'crap' but you just don't want to hear them.
I respect the fact that you feel differently and i'm glad that you and others like it, but that doesn't make mine or anyone-elses opinion invalid.
You lambasted Wake The Dead for lyrical repetition on the chorus when this argument first arose when the album came out, yet no one was saying the same thing about the repetitive yet fantastic chorus for I Love The Dead 35 years earlier.
You said having Slash and Ozzy on the album added no weight to it. What one of the best rock guitarists on the planet? If anything I would have liked to have heard him on every track. Ozzy's contribution is distinctive even if minimal so still adds weight to the album.
You said the production was crap, not that Greg Hampton and Danny Saber will be losing any sleep about your opinion.
As for respect I think we know the truth on that one so don't try and pretend you have any for me as the animosity is mutual.
And he may have at one time. People change their minds all the time too.steven_crayn wrote: I remember Andy Michael saying on here that Alice told him personally something to the effect that Alice believed in the album.
You certainly do not Andy!!I don't have to like *everything* he does.
You are fully entitled to have an opinion on the lyrics, it's just Steven thinks his opinion is more valid than yours based on his outstanding music career.The son of Don Quijote wrote:I know there is a big difference between lyrics and poetry. Most of the poetry wouldn't work when translated into music. The lines on a song lyrics have to fit in a melody for example. My point wasn't, "I know these lyrics are weak because I'm the greatest rock lyricist of all time". I didn't claim to be anything like that.
My point was I can tell these lyrics are weak because I'm familiar with the whole Alice studio discography and most of the lyrics and also with poetry and other artists' lyrics. I don't question Alice's talent as a lyric writer. I just opined that I especially disliked that aspect of ACAS. Even geniouses don't always reach the top quality. He has created countless interesting characters and stories during his career.
From his more recent works The last temptation and Brutal planet were lyrically excellent and like I stated I truly loved those extra verses he added to Devil's food on the last tour.
My opinion would be almost weightless if I had very little knowledge of Alice's other lyrics or if I had only three Alice albums or just didn't have any interets in this aspect of music. But that isn't the case.
Are you saying a passionate movie collector isn't allowed to criticize a movie if he/she doesn't have any experience of directing movies? Is amateur's opinion always worthless? Am I unqualified to judge Shakespeare's sonets because I haven't published a book yet? I am glad you enjoy the album more than I do. We are both entitled to our opinions so let's bury the axe.
Once again you only read into things what you want to see.While Heaven Wept wrote:I gave a pretty comprehensive run-down of what i thought about the album when it first came out and i really can't be bothered to repeat myself. At the end of the day, you think this is his best record for 30 years and i think the exact opposite so there's really no middle-ground to share!steven_crayn wrote:what reasons have you given? you have just thrown around lazy adjectives.While Heaven Wept wrote:The trouble is Steven, i have given reasons for why i believe the production, playing and lyrics to be 'crap' but you just don't want to hear them.
I respect the fact that you feel differently and i'm glad that you and others like it, but that doesn't make mine or anyone-elses opinion invalid.
You lambasted Wake The Dead for lyrical repetition on the chorus when this argument first arose when the album came out, yet no one was saying the same thing about the repetitive yet fantastic chorus for I Love The Dead 35 years earlier.
You said having Slash and Ozzy on the album added no weight to it. What one of the best rock guitarists on the planet? If anything I would have liked to have heard him on every track. Ozzy's contribution is distinctive even if minimal so still adds weight to the album.
You said the production was crap, not that Greg Hampton and Danny Saber will be losing any sleep about your opinion.
As for respect I think we know the truth on that one so don't try and pretend you have any for me as the animosity is mutual.
And don't flatter yourself, i have no animosity towards you, i have much more important things in life to worry about and to dedicate my emotions to.
I've never said my opinion is more valid once again you are reading into things what you want to see to try and suit your flawed argument.While Heaven Wept wrote:You are fully entitled to have an opinion on the lyrics, it's just Steven thinks his opinion is more valid than yours based on his outstanding music career.The son of Don Quijote wrote:I know there is a big difference between lyrics and poetry. Most of the poetry wouldn't work when translated into music. The lines on a song lyrics have to fit in a melody for example. My point wasn't, "I know these lyrics are weak because I'm the greatest rock lyricist of all time". I didn't claim to be anything like that.
My point was I can tell these lyrics are weak because I'm familiar with the whole Alice studio discography and most of the lyrics and also with poetry and other artists' lyrics. I don't question Alice's talent as a lyric writer. I just opined that I especially disliked that aspect of ACAS. Even geniouses don't always reach the top quality. He has created countless interesting characters and stories during his career.
From his more recent works The last temptation and Brutal planet were lyrically excellent and like I stated I truly loved those extra verses he added to Devil's food on the last tour.
My opinion would be almost weightless if I had very little knowledge of Alice's other lyrics or if I had only three Alice albums or just didn't have any interets in this aspect of music. But that isn't the case.
Are you saying a passionate movie collector isn't allowed to criticize a movie if he/she doesn't have any experience of directing movies? Is amateur's opinion always worthless? Am I unqualified to judge Shakespeare's sonets because I haven't published a book yet? I am glad you enjoy the album more than I do. We are both entitled to our opinions so let's bury the axe.
I'm not a good cook, but i know when food tastes bad.
Actually, you did say that it was his best album for 30 years.... i have a pretty good memory. I'm sure the comment is still on this forum too if you look back.steven_crayn wrote: I said the album rocked harder than Last Temptation I didn't say it was better than that or Hey Stoopid or Raise Your Fist which were all albums I prefer to ACAS, but I do think it was one of Alice's better albums since his last classic which for me was From The Inside and certainly better the Dirty Diamonds which I was not keen on even though as with any Alice album their are always some great songs.
That doesn't mean i harbour any animosity towards you though. I'm not a hateful person and don't feel animosity towards anyone as it's such a negative emotion.steven_crayn wrote: Flatter myself? lets tell it like it is, the number of arguments we have had on here it is pretty clear so don't try and play the nice guy.
If i thought for one second that you were genuinely interested in hearing about my music career i would tell you.steven_crayn wrote: And while you are talking about outstanding music careers what have you ever done?
It's a discussion forum, it seems inevitable that the 'human animal' has often not the ability to discuss without resorting to rudeness often due to prejudice, fixed views and, well, an inability to reason.Is it necessary to argue ad nauseam over our OPINIONS of an album?!?
Posts are only deleted if members break board rules. When debate turns to argument and people resort to flaming which is against said rules then what do you expect. A lot of hard work goes into the running of this site, if you don't like it then please do 'go somewhere else'.Gunner wrote:It's a discussion forum, it seems inevitable that the 'human animal' has often not the ability to discuss without resorting to rudeness often due to prejudice, fixed views and, well, an inability to reason.Is it necessary to argue ad nauseam over our OPINIONS of an album?!?
It needs to be controlled to a level of course, however, at this site the control level is is so tight that it 'nips it in the bud' prematurely and no real debate ia allowed to blossom, which is unfortunate. Posts are deleted and the response of 'go somewhere else' are considered to be the solution.
I certainly don't want to change anybody's mind. I just don't appreciate having my views (and those of others) called absurd or moronic. I have always respected the opinions of others and am genuinely pleased that some people enjoy ACAS.RemarkablyInsincere wrote:Is it necessary to argue ad nauseam over our OPINIONS of an album?!?
Nobody is going to change anybody's mind.
